PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[ChivalRuse]

Yoshi combos are sexy.

 

[GooeyBanana]

I cry everytime I fullhop instead of wavedash/shine ;_;....I just want to be good with Falcoooooooooo

 

[Joanna Dark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4FJI1iiKxQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9JJUj4w8o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgeqm-UoP-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YL4psV5M9w

this is me vs makenshi (the best french player) and I would like some advice because I wanna improve and all... I've been playing falco since 2004 so I really need to start improving now ^^. thx in advance.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

joannnnnnnnnnna ;D

 

[Druggedfox]

I'm no Dr. PP, and I only glanced through the first one, but I noticed a couple things that I *think* would help.

As a general comment, I would say shoot lower lasers (except of course when you're purposely doing high lasers to stop a marth coming from above). A lot of the time you were shooting high lasers while he was approaching from the ground; that's often another way of asking to get dash attacked by marth. That's one of the number 1 ways marth players try to get around falcos lasers, and probably the easiest.

Another thing I noticed that Makenshi didn't take particular advantage of, but another marth might is that you were dairing him at around 0-40% while he was in the air. I'm not sure if most people know this or not, but when falco dairs the opponent while he (the opponent) is in the air, he hits the ground with no stun. This means that, especially with someone with marth's grab range, even if you do a well spaced dair if you hit the marth while he's in the air it gives him a free grab.

At 2:30 I think, you were on the top platform, while makenshi was on the rightmost platform. While it looked like you were trying to push on the offensive because you had forced an opening and were riding momentum, it seemed a rather dangerous decision (and ended up getting you uptilted, and could have been death). In this matchup, neither character really wants to be above the other, so chasing down a marth who is below you (when he could simply fall through with a u-air, etc) is generally a dangerous move.

There was also a lot of roll dodging, which is definitely a useful tactic, but there were times when you felt pressured that you were spamming it a bit. Sometimes you have to keep a cool head, and wavedash out of shield like you were in other parts of the match, or maybe some aerials/shines out of shield when you notice makenshi was trying to go for grabs?

Last thing I'll say is that be careul of how dash attack is used. It's a great move, but also easily punishable (wavedash backwards OoS--> grab beats dash attack going behind marth's shield). I could be wrong, but I felt as if you might have relied on it/used it a bit dangerously.

Those are just my thoughts as both a marth and falco player; disregard anything you think is useless, or maybe PP'll just tell me I'm wrong =PP I tried though, and you have a pretty good falco; it was a fun match to watch, and good luck.

 

[Joanna Dark]

thanks a lot man ! It's really great to have someone else criticize my falco ^^.
I'm hosting a smashfest this weekend, I'll make sure I work on what you pointed out.

If possible, I would very much like some dr PP's advice aswell ^^.


hey trahhh

 

[Dr Peepee]

Druggedfox gave solid advice, you can trust it.

Match 2:

0:06- No Utilt after Bair'ing unless you whiff the Bair. No one is going to rush you after they got hit, or at least Marth won't(unless he CC'd I guess but he would have hit you before the Utilt came out then most likely). Just RSHL.

0:08- easy on the double laser. Had Marth not airdodged, he would have had an easy Fair, possibly out of your DJ and you could have gotten gimped super easily. It's pretty unsafe to double laser there anyway, but vs Marth you really have to watch that stuff. If you can get away with it then keep doing it though I guess.

0:13- Might have been easier to try for a shine waveland or a Bair instead of an upair. Those cover a small area and the first hit can be CC'd, which makes you feel silly.

0:17- Should have Fsmashed or Dair'd again. Ftilt is more of a poke or edgeguard tool than a combo finisher.

0:23- that Fsmash can get you shield grabbed and/or ***** by a less scared Marth. Try Bairs and lasers if that Fsmash stops working.

0:56- Marth was really just swinging at you by this point, so don't think he's going to grab and just try to regain control. I'm thinking RSHL, but it's not your only option.

1:14- Jabbing vs Marth is ultra risky and usually not worth it in my opinion. Sticking your arm out vs Marth to grab on with that silly grab range is a bad idea if you think about it haha.

1:55- Going for the Bair after the FH on such good DI away was a bad idea because it just placed you above Marth. Drop down and try to get under him or get some lasers going in that case.

2:11- Either commit to the Bair or WD away quickly to fully bait/beat Marth's Fair.

after that: DI some of those throws away some so you can grab the edge/not die from Fsmash.

2:41- Nair.

3:07- Don't roll in so much, once again.

3:15- Go for the edge and hope you can go through his sword. Going high makes it pathetically easy for Marth to hit you.

Annnnd that's pretty much it. I'd say work on that tech skill a little more too.

Sorry about the delay, this literally took me half a day to do with all of the interruptions.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

thanks a lot man ! It's really great to have someone else criticize my falco ^^.
I'm hosting a smashfest this weekend, I'll make sure I work on what you pointed out.

If possible, I would very much like some dr PP's advice aswell ^^.


hey trahhh

Specific advice was already given you by PP =)

The way I see it, you suffer from Makenshi's same weakness: both of you have good predicting skills but when you hit your opponent do not exploit it well enough.

My advice is to improve your speed and comboing/punishing skills. 3:22 on battlefield is a good example. You should have capitalized on his missed Up B. In general, Makenshi left quite a lot of openings you should have exploited better.

Also, recovery on your first YS stock was quite easy. As long as Marth keeps using Neutral B you can just do a vertical Up B and grab the edge. This is a good example of how you can exploit Makenshi's outdated playing style. Had the Marth been Ice or M2k he'd have used Jab/Down B/Down tilt following you off edge for the gimp.

If Marth tries to recover on stage, this is a good way to kill him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmIYBjKDNYc#t=4m44s

 

[duals]

i have a question

ive seen shiz (idk if any one else does it) do this move that i want to know how to do, but i cant really break it down.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWaffle77#p/search/31/ruEp0oLHTDM

at 1:20 shiz runs off stage and jumps up shooting lazers at lucky. When i try to do it, i end up turning around facing the stage. how to do?

 

[Sion]

duals, do you use the control stick or the X/Y button to double laser the way you have stated?

anyways, you're probably DIing too early towards the stage before shooting the initial laser. try getting the laser out a bit faster before holding the control stick towards the stage.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i have a question

ive seen shiz (idk if any one else does it) do this move that i want to know how to do, but i cant really break it down.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWaffle77#p/search/31/ruEp0oLHTDM

at 1:20 shiz runs off stage and jumps up shooting lazers at lucky. When i try to do it, i end up turning around facing the stage. how to do?

This is the order butting pressing should go for this technique.

You simply drop down, flick your analog stick up (or X/Y), immediately press B to laser (this is the part where you're going wrong, your going back towards the stage before lasering, which changes your direction) then of course after pushing B, land back on stage.

this tech is very useful and i'd say 100% recommended for any spacie matchup you wanna win

 

[duals]

duals, do you use the control stick or the X/Y button to double laser the way you have stated?

anyways, you're probably DIing too early towards the stage before shooting the initial laser. try getting the laser out a bit faster before holding the control stick towards the stage.

dont you need to use both? i guess im not understanding the question.


so just basically shoot before i move towards the stage?

 

[Sion]

my mistake, i was asking whether you solely used the control stick to go down and jump back up or whether you used x/y to jump back up. it was kind of pointless to ask anyways LOL

and yes, shoot before you move towards the stage. trahh has a better worded explanation if you didn't really understand mine.

 

[duals]

my mistake, i was asking whether you solely used the control stick to go down and jump back up or whether you used x/y to jump back up. it was kind of pointless to ask anyways LOL

and yes, shoot before you move towards the stage. trahh has a better worded explanation if you didn't really understand mine.

its cool, i just need to practice

thanks

edit

This is the order butting pressing should go for this technique.

You simply drop down, flick your analog stick up (or X/Y), immediately press B to laser (this is the part where you're going wrong, your going back towards the stage before lasering, which changes your direction) then of course after pushing B, land back on stage.

this tech is very useful and i'd say 100% recommended for any spacie matchup you wanna win

didnt notice your post..heh

that is very helpful. thank you

 

[Rubyiris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfIaFyNTImc

Me vs Tai Falco/Marth.

I can has critique pl0x? <3

 

[unknown522]

lol @ taj's commentary. Love that guy.

Advice coming once I'm done watching.

I'm gonna add more, but you're way too aggressive. You're missing one of the main things that makes falco good: the laser camping. Make him come to you. Switching quickly between offense and defense is key. Shine OoS is broken as ****. there were a lot of times you could've done it.

Also, you miss your shines a lot. It's probably because you're not going deep enough when you're trying to pressure his shield.

You also never grab him, when you force him to go into shield, by lasers or generally being close to him.

 

[Moooose]

okay so
ive beaten kels and tink's foxes in tournament
but the last two tournaments i went to i lost three falco dittos to tink and one to kels loool
so clearly i need help with falco dittos
vids will be up within a week and ill post them then
but till then
does anyone have tips in general for falco dittos?
i know its hard to give help without videos but any tips are appreciated.

 

[LushLahti]

Can anyone give me advice on how to do any move out of shield (Shine, Nair, USmash, etc.)?

 

[SuperMatt]

moose here is what i use for falco dittos

1) shine out of shield into combos...this wont really work too much against top players like tink/kels though....but just be sure to not be of the recieving end of it...i.e. dont aerial their shields

2) control the ground level laser space...the person who does this gains a huge advantage over the other...dont be overly concerned about controling the higher ground on platforms or whatever

3) get them off the stage by any means possible...an off the stage bird is a dead bird...if this means ending a combo sooner to fit in an f smash to put them off stage, that may be the better option

4) learn them mango combos...once you start a combo, especially if you are on YS or BF or something with platforms, they should end up with 50+ damage or be dead...

 

[Moooose]

moose here is what i use for falco dittos

1) shine out of shield into combos...this wont really work too much against top players like tink/kels though....but just be sure to not be of the recieving end of it...i.e. dont aerial their shields

2) control the ground level laser space...the person who does this gains a huge advantage over the other...dont be overly concerned about controling the higher ground on platforms or whatever

3) get them off the stage by any means possible...an off the stage bird is a dead bird...if this means ending a combo sooner to fit in an f smash to put them off stage, that may be the better option

4) learn them mango combos...once you start a combo, especially if you are on YS or BF or something with platforms, they should end up with 50+ damage or be dead...

that's all really solid advice, thanks

 

[prog]

Can anyone give me advice on how to do any move out of shield (Shine, Nair, USmash, etc.)?

find the way that you're most comfortable doing it. some people use X, Y, up on the control stick, up on the c-stick etc.

then just practice that motion. later, practice doing it after shield stun.

 

[LushLahti]

find the way that you're most comfortable doing it. some people use X, Y, up on the control stick, up on the c-stick etc.

then just practice that motion. later, practice doing it after shield stun.

Sorry if my question wasn't clear, I can't find the correct wording. I meant do I have to *insert technique* really quickly after I release the shield button? night before I realese the shield button? I don't have any controllers atm so I can't really practice so I'm tyring to learn as much general knowledge as I cna until I cna start playing again.

 

[Dr Peepee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfIaFyNTImc

Me vs Tai Falco/Marth.

I can has critique pl0x? <3

Match 1:

0:06- DJ'ing to try to Dair Marth is bad because you usually can't catch him offguard that easily and he can beat your Dair or punish it on reaction. Not having your jump above Marth is bad so don't force the situation. If you need to FH to get around Marth's control there then I understand that.

0:24- Don't shine after the tech roll vs Marth. He's always going to try to space that grab with DD'ing so it's better to just attack or get out of there asap.

0:36- It's usually bad to jab vs Marth because he can grab your arm and make you feel bad.

0:50- I guess just wait out invincibility longer, but it kinda looked like the shine missed anyway.

1:10- When a laser gets PS'd back at you from that range, it's better to try and move back a little(they could hit you if you try to laser again/attack typically), maybe space a retreating Bair(at least the first time or two as a mixup).

1:20- Those probably need to be aerial forward Bs so you're not so laggy. Or you could just waveland.

1:32- It really is better to use lasers to help you get grabs because Falco is so slow just running, which causes silly things like that to happen.

2:06- Dash attack usually can't cut it. Dsmash or the lightshield edgehog still works fine.

2:31- Whiffing a move and then trying another attack with Falco typically doesn't work for me. It's best to go for a laser at that point and start up pressure again unless you really think you should commit to something, in which case go for a Nair/maybe Dair approach.

Only other thing I'd say would be regrab the edge another time or two for the side B mixups.

If you want me to do the other match I'll try to remember to do it. Gonna go critique Baxon now!

 

[Rubyiris]

Jabs a bad habit I'm working on correcting. I do it vs every character in the game, and yeah, I'd like some critique on the DL MU, plus you get to see a trick I like to use versus ledge-camping characters.

I'll have matches vs more players up eventually, including vids of me beastmoding on RC, LOL. Just whenever the AZ uploaders aren't busy with school, I guess.

 

[Druggedfox]

@Moose...

falco round robin matches from Apex got put up... I'm sure there's something you can learn from like 6-7 falco ditto matches with the best falcos :D

Oh, and PP vs Zhu is up if you didn't see it =D =D =D

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm never watching those Falco tourney videos of myself. bleh.

That tourney set of me vs Zhu is really good though. =p

Maybe I should write about the ditto in the matchup thread next....

 

[Druggedfox]

I'm never watching those Falco tourney videos of myself. bleh.

That tourney set of me vs Zhu is really good though. =p

Maybe I should write about the ditto in the matchup thread next....

=( I was sad about the falco tourney, though really good games against zhu... did you hear what he was saying about you after the set was over?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Rubyiris just stop being so god**** bad at this game gaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwd

 

[Dr Peepee]

=( I was sad about the falco tourney, though really good games against zhu... did you hear what he was saying about you after the set was over?

I heard he was saying good things about me I think? I don't know any specifics.

I do <3 Zhu though, he's a smart guy.

 

[GooeyBanana]

Ok, so apparently I'm not grasping a lot of concepts about Falco. Numero uno would definitely be what to do when my aerial hits their shield(I understand hitting it high means you're probably screwed). I swear if I shine I'm ****ed because apparently the timing changes of when you can do stuff. If the timing does indeed change, how is it altered? Being shield grabbed after hitting their shield at any height is getting pretttyyyyy annoying >=/

 

[Rubyiris]

Rubyiris just stop being so god**** bad at this game gaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwd

Honestly I'm really not that bad.

 

[Sion]

Ok, so apparently I'm not grasping a lot of concepts about Falco. Numero uno would definitely be what to do when my aerial hits their shield(I understand hitting it high means you're probably screwed). I swear if I shine I'm ****ed because apparently the timing changes of when you can do stuff. If the timing does indeed change, how is it altered? Being shield grabbed after hitting their shield at any height is getting pretttyyyyy annoying >=/

first and foremost, learn the shield hitstun and general hitstun. playing falco is very demanding and this is a basic requirement.

IMO a lot of falco's shield pressure can get grabbed/punished easily. what aerials are you using that get grabbed? dairs, nairs, uairs, etc. i believe that nairs have the most hitstun out of all of falco's aerials(correct me if i'm wrong) and dairs are fairly easy to punish unless done correctly. falco's shield pressure definitely isn't perfect(unless you do very delayed aerials) and getting shield grabbed can be a common thing.

that being said, i'll try to address your concerns as best i can. when your aerial hits the shield, you should have an idea of what you're trying to do. either space away from the shield, overshoot past the shield, or straight on in front of them. i don't think i have to explain further, since i'll assume you have an idea of what i'm trying to get at. if you do l cancel and go into a shine successfully, you have several options, options of which mostly come from experience.
a. you know your opponent well and can attempt further shield pressure because they respect your shield pressure
b. do a fading away nair/dair because he likes to shield grab
c. double shine because your opponent has an aerial/move that comes fast OOS and likes to use it
d. shine grab because you like to mix it up and keep your opponent guessing

regarding your shield grabbing concern: try spacing your aerials away from shield grab range, and smothering them will full falco offense after they try to grab. it's sooooooo delicious

i also like being vague cause i mostly play him and rarely theorize in falco's antics

 

[KirbyKaze]

I just pour hot **** all over my opponents' naked bodies.

In chocolate sauce form.

Oh wait this isn't the Sheik thread.

...

._.

Sup Falcos.

 

[omgwtfToph]

duals, do you use the control stick or the X/Y button to double laser the way you have stated?

anyways, you're probably DIing too early towards the stage before shooting the initial laser. try getting the laser out a bit faster before holding the control stick towards the stage.

thats NOT DI, SION! its just REGULAR OL' MOVING

 

[Niko45]

Dr. PP ****in *****.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I heard you **** too. =)

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

that's all really solid advice, thanks

one very solid thing i remember to apply in every falco ditto, is to laser your opponent while he's offstage trying to recover, laser until he's below you, then just dair, or whatever, either way, him being below you limits his options completely.

 

[Sion]

thats NOT DI, SION! its just REGULAR OL' MOVING

the only thing i'm certain of is shine

go away

LOL kk

 

[Rubyiris]

I just pour hot **** all over my opponents' naked bodies.

In chocolate sauce form.

Oh wait this isn't the Sheik thread.

...

._.

Sup Falcos.

Sup ? :3

 

[forward]

Hey PP, just curious of what your opinion of my Falco is.