PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[FoxLisk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SuCnZIrQPc

advice vs jiggs? I'm much less nervous for this one

Thanks loads in advance, I love the falco boards

go back to like... i think late march. right after dr pp beat hbox at herb3, this thread exploded with jiggs advice.

 

[C_Ferris32]

The title is legit. Don't change it

 

[Culvers]

Does anyone have any advice for a long time lurker who has little to no experience outside CPUs and my friends who aren't competitive smashers? I've been working on tech skill and watching vids, but I was wondering what else I could be doing anything more to improve my game.

 

[Rubyiris]

Does anybody happen to have, or willing to produce either a frame chart, or pictures of the following two scenarios:

How to edgeguard Firefox with ftilt without trading with it.

How to "suicide" dair Firefox, but trade with it, resulting in surviving.

Thanks!

 

[Rubyiris]

Does anyone have any advice for a long time lurker who has little to no experience outside CPUs and my friends who aren't competitive smashers? I've been working on tech skill and watching vids, but I was wondering what else I could be doing anything more to improve my game.

outside of playing better people, not really.

The best you can hope for is instead of just doing random training mode things, have a set goal in mind for what you want to do.

 

[X1-12]

Does anyone have any advice for a long time lurker who has little to no experience outside CPUs and my friends who aren't competitive smashers? I've been working on tech skill and watching vids, but I was wondering what else I could be doing anything more to improve my game.

put your location on your smashboards account

Check the regional forums for people near you

meet people

 

[Doomblaze]

Does anybody happen to have, or willing to produce either a frame chart, or pictures of the following two scenarios:

How to edgeguard Firefox with ftilt without trading with it.

How to "suicide" dair Firefox, but trade with it, resulting in surviving.

Thanks!

Why would you ever need to do that? You can just downsmash their firefox and it works better than ftilting and just as effectively as dair.

If i knew how i would tell you, but i dont know for sure how to do either

 

[#HBC | Mac]

dsmashing requires stricter timing

im also interested in this

 

[Rubyiris]

Ftilt's timing window is easier, can be tilted up and down, and if you whiff, cannot be punished on landing. Trading USUALLY results in a return to neutral, but this is why I'm asking how to NOT trade.

As for trading with firefox during off-stage gimps, those of you who don't do it/haven't seen it done are probably skeptical of its uses, but it results in some gimps that normally wouldn't have been achieved until conventional circumstances. Plus it just looks silly/awesome and you feel really awesome.

 

[mers]

I get the dair-firefox trade pretty often without trying. The only idea I have is that it comes from starting the dair very early, but I dunno if this is it, or if its something to do with the location that the firefox hits you. I feel like it might be easier to trade when fox comes at you from the side, because dairs hibox is bigger vertically than horizontally.

 

[stingers]

whats the best way to get 5th in teams at a large tournament?

 

[Kanelol]

whats the best way to get 5th in teams at a large tournament?

Fox/Puff

real talk

 

[#HBC | Mac]

what is the best way to make an epic comeback vs a camping ice climbers?

 

[stingers]

whats the best way to double shine peaches off the top of yoshis?

 

[X1-12]

Shine -> Jump -> Shine

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hahaha <3

I learned a gooood bit about Peach/ICs/playing as Falco this weekend. I'll try to put that to good use.

 

[Druggedfox]

Ftilt's timing window is easier, can be tilted up and down, and if you whiff, cannot be punished on landing. Trading USUALLY results in a return to neutral, but this is why I'm asking how to NOT trade.

As for trading with firefox during off-stage gimps, those of you who don't do it/haven't seen it done are probably skeptical of its uses, but it results in some gimps that normally wouldn't have been achieved until conventional circumstances. Plus it just looks silly/awesome and you feel really awesome.

The whole ftilt thing is still a mystery to me, and I think a lot of others.

As for the dair one, I have two ideas, but haven't tried either of them. Either an extremely weak dair hit, hoping that with less priority the firefox will hit you, or the second option which I think is the better: extremely delayed dair. Essentially maybe try making it so that the dair hitbox only comes out as you're getting hit? I've done this with marth and falcos dair a lot, and I think that's when it happens the most often.

Dr. PP, I have a question... first, great job at Apex =D, but I ask why you didn't incorporate shine-->grab against armada? I understand there were a lot of factors going into the match, there might've been better options, or maybe it simply didn't occur to you. I was just curious because you absolutely DECIMATED armada's shield for prolonged periods of time, but I couldn't help think that because armada held his shield up SO much he would have been relatively easy to shine JC grab, resulting in a lot of more or less free hits, and maybe helping you to come out on top. Just a thought of mine; amazing job, keep it up :D Get #1 next time :D :D :D

 

[Dr Peepee]

I was messing up shine-grabbing at Apex a lot and FH'ing after shine, which isn't always good.
I was looking for a shield poke/combo instead of damage as well. I wasn't confident in my throw follow-up game at all.

And thanks! =)

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i could use some advice.

i have this friend who's new to competitive smash.
he's been playing falco and idk how to help him get good fast.
so far i've taught him how to shl back and forth and shffl with late aerials and that kind of stuff.
i've been playing him as link and ganon so far so i won't be as good against falco.
ocassionally i go falcon or someone better but it doesn't feel very productive.

what should he practice? (shffl/shl/shinegame)
how can i help him train/improve?
who should i use against him?

idk if this post makes a lot of sense or where i should've posted it, but any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[unknown522]

PP is amazing. Second best falco, when it comes to other matchups.

Hands down.

 

[mers]

i could use some advice.

i have this friend who's new to competitive smash.
he's been playing falco and idk how to help him get good fast.
so far i've taught him how to shl back and forth and shffl with late aerials and that kind of stuff.
i've been playing him as link and ganon so far so i won't be as good against falco.
ocassionally i go falcon or someone better but it doesn't feel very productive.

what should he practice? (shffl/shl/shinegame)
how can i help him train/improve?
who should i use against him?

idk if this post makes a lot of sense or where i should've posted it, but any help is greatly appreciated.

I have a little bit of experience with training people like this. I recommend you don't push the technical aspect too hard at first. Obviously, they'll have to get there eventually, but it can be daunting at first. Just emphasize basic things, like spacing moves correctly and stuff.

Also, don't do this always, but play them with the same character they're learning. It can be helpful to see different tricks and things used against you.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

thanks thanks.

sounds about right. if i was emphasizing his tech skill practice, it's because i don't want him to take as long as i did to learn everything. haha but i don't want to turn him off or anything.

and idk how much he likes falco dittos yet because he doesn't have the tech skill and/or follow up knowledge that i do yet, so it'll feel too one sided. good idea though.

 

[FoxLisk]

0-death him once or twice in dittos

then be like 'hey if you had teched in the middle of that i couldnt have killed you. and here's how i did the rest'

and then let him try stuff out.

sandbag, but instead of limiting it, just space it out. play really well for like 1 stock a match, and then let him try to hit you the rest of it. or like, just don't DI so he can get down the easiest combos, and once he can do those DI and tech more. stuff like that. ease him into it while still letting him see the goal.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

http://www.youtube.com/user/SwordSaint892#p/u/1/St-nuXboN-s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARkP85GFpjo

GF set at a tournament i went to last week.

looking for some advice from PP, or anyone that wants to help :D i'm the neutral falco, coming from losers

thanks =D

 

[LumpyCPU...]

0-death him once or twice in dittos

then be like 'hey if you had teched in the middle of that i couldnt have killed you. and here's how i did the rest'

and then let him try stuff out.

sandbag, but instead of limiting it, just space it out. play really well for like 1 stock a match, and then let him try to hit you the rest of it. or like, just don't DI so he can get down the easiest combos, and once he can do those DI and tech more. stuff like that. ease him into it while still letting him see the goal.

sounds good or at least potentially good.

my sandbagging is just my auto pilot. so i get predictable and stuff and he'll start punishing me.
i don't even mean to sandbag though because it feels like an insult.

thanks though. good ideas.

 

[LushLahti]

How exactly do I shorten Falco's illusion?

 

[X1-12]

press B mid-animation, most people recommend pressing it just after you hear the sound

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Trahh:

Video 1:

0:13- Dair and then shine or Utilt. % was too low for anything to really combo from Uair.

0:15- If you're going to Dair someone into the ground, then Utilt or Dsmash/Fsmash(maybe) afterward. Shine has too much of a chance of popping someone up by that percent.

0:17- Should have just lasered him from that jump or just caught him with a Bair/laser/utilt when he fell.

0:34- Do a second shine if the other Falco gets too low for you to delay the other Dair before you fall. Keeps them from shielding and you from dropping the combo so early.

0:39- shine

0:49- trying a little too hard to tech skill on this guy. He's probably going to shield, so laser grab would have worked. A regular Bair would have sufficed after the Uptilt. That shine doesn't do much damage and makes hitting with the Bair a lot harder to do(just overall less efficient).

1:05- Try some regrabs or firebird stalls to keep yourself unpredictable. Don't forget your wavelands.

1:20- Biggest thing up to this point is obviously Fsmash, but you need to learn to chase people or punish them with Nair more. could have caught the spotdodge or close laser to seal the stock with a Nair.

1:47- Ease up on the dash attack a little. It's getting you punished pretty hard. Try chasing with more aerials or just get closer with lasers and use shine mixups. You're cutting off stage control from the opponent, don't lose it by dash attacking after them and then immediately getting countered. They're going to run away from you more often than not(or shield) so you have to chase a little to figure out how to take advantage of your position.

2:08- Suicide spike him! You were in the perfect position for it and then retreated. Even a Dair edgeguard attempt would have been pretty good there.


That's all I have time for right now, but if you need me to do more then I can later.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Great advice, I can easily take alot of that in. If you could do the 2nd video that'd be better, since this one was alllllll FD. The second vid is buncha levels, i love platforms so itd be a diff critique

do it if you get a chance :D

thanks again peepee

 

[unknown522]

@Trahh:

0:15- If you're going to Dair someone into the ground, then Utilt or Dsmash/Fsmash(maybe) afterward. Shine has too much of a chance of popping someone up by that percent.

it happens when you have stale moves on the shine. if a move does 7% or less, then it will pop them up when they are grounded (that's why it happens with other moves like raptor boost and sheik's f-tilt when it's stale).

anyways, I'm liking the advice.

 

[Sion]

it happens when you have stale moves on the shine. if a move does 7% or less, then it will pop them up when they are grounded (that's why it happens with other moves like raptor boost and sheik's f-tilt when it's stale).

anyways, I'm liking the advice.

oh, thanks, unknown.

i didn't know that stale moves did that.

 

[unknown522]

np. Any time.

 

[FoxLisk]

hey, Dr. PP, did you play M2K at all at Apex? in friendlies or an MM or anything? if so, how did you do and are there videos?

 

[unknown522]

it happens when you have stale moves on the shine. if a move does less than 7%, then it will pop them up when they are grounded (that's why it happens with other moves like raptor boost and sheik's f-tilt when it's stale).

fixed. My bad.

 

[Sion]

yeah, i tested the stale moves with shine this afternoon. i gotta stop using shine to move/show off lol

 

[unknown522]

don't worry, it only stales when you hit with the move.

 

[Sion]

ohhh

dang, unknown. you taught me so much within several sentences.

 

[Dr Peepee]

hey, Dr. PP, did you play M2K at all at Apex? in friendlies or an MM or anything? if so, how did you do and are there videos?

I keep forgetting/scrubbing out on playing M2K and I have no idea why.

Next time. =)

 

[Little England]

What about any Ganons? That matchup still scares me.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Be careful with your approach, that's the biggest thing. You also have to be certain when you commit otherwise Ganon will just **** you for being scared anyway(that's how they win, they scare you and then hit you twice and scare you more when you die).

Just realize he's a big target and you can combo/edgeugard him really well and that takes away a lot of Ganon's edge right there.

I should write about that too lol.