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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
JPOBS
Smash Hero
vague question
probably just as viable as always. just do late nairs (like your mostly should be doing) and follow with shine as usual i dunno
@sion: I tend to use Nairs when people are shielding/jumping oos/retreating, so just try to use Nair when someone isn't going to CC.
@MDZ: Something good to do.....
React to techs more instead of predicting/guessing them when comboing.
Critiques should definitely be coming tonight.
@MDZ: Something good to do.....
React to techs more instead of predicting/guessing them when comboing.
Critiques should definitely be coming tonight.
@Vman:
Watching that third vs pika match....
-Upsmash at weird times. Does it counter approaches or something
-whenever axe was on the edge you just kinda did moves and he invincibility-***** you. Space out a little farther.
-Your platform movement was pretty predictable and it got you hit a lot.
That's the big stuff there. A smallish thing is you approached with some obvious DJC Nairs at times you weren't wavelanding them, but they were mixed up well enough sometimes.
vs Falco(game 2)....
-don't see why you would egg stall when falco is offstage. just roll up if you see him side B and you can probably punish. If not, then grab the edge later or go for Dtilt/Ftilt edgeguards on the phantasms.
-Fsmash after a dropped combo is a bad idea.
-don't just shield whenever falco respawns....that's just asking to get grabbed at the least. Move around some first, at least.
-the pressure just got to you too much on the last stock. Approaching with grabs on a Falco, for example, not a good idea typically(but it was kinda okay since he was by the edge, but still, Falco hates shielding if he can help it).
Going to do Baxon's now....
Watching that third vs pika match....
-Upsmash at weird times. Does it counter approaches or something
-whenever axe was on the edge you just kinda did moves and he invincibility-***** you. Space out a little farther.
-Your platform movement was pretty predictable and it got you hit a lot.
That's the big stuff there. A smallish thing is you approached with some obvious DJC Nairs at times you weren't wavelanding them, but they were mixed up well enough sometimes.
vs Falco(game 2)....
-don't see why you would egg stall when falco is offstage. just roll up if you see him side B and you can probably punish. If not, then grab the edge later or go for Dtilt/Ftilt edgeguards on the phantasms.
-Fsmash after a dropped combo is a bad idea.
-don't just shield whenever falco respawns....that's just asking to get grabbed at the least. Move around some first, at least.
-the pressure just got to you too much on the last stock. Approaching with grabs on a Falco, for example, not a good idea typically(but it was kinda okay since he was by the edge, but still, Falco hates shielding if he can help it).
Going to do Baxon's now....
stingers
Smash Obsessed
pp if you can critique a yoshi main's yoshi, why wont you mm me with him?
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
allrite thanks PP, i'll make sure I work on all that stuff you described ^^; =p
Shut up Stongers I can still suck at Yoshi if I feel like it.
No problem Vman. =)
No problem Vman. =)
MattDotZeb
Smash Hero
Yep. Started at 13. Though I advanced really, really slowly for my first 2 years. Plus I've only sat down and practiced stuff on my own twice in the past few years. If I started doing that I'd probably get better faster.
Why would that be taken rudely..? I'm not terrible
You're never too good to not be given advice.
unknown522
Some guy
I'm heard that MDZ beat chops in pools at ROM2.
Also, we've been playing for almost the same length of time. both Raynex I entered our first tourney in july 2005, back when we were 15. The first 2 years were slow progress as well. Then quebec got good at FCD and VLS. Then we started to get a lot better after pound 3, whereas Kage started to get recognition at pound 3.
It's been nothing but upwards from there.
Also, we've been playing for almost the same length of time. both Raynex I entered our first tourney in july 2005, back when we were 15. The first 2 years were slow progress as well. Then quebec got good at FCD and VLS. Then we started to get a lot better after pound 3, whereas Kage started to get recognition at pound 3.
It's been nothing but upwards from there.
idk because if someones been playing for that long they don't usually ask such broad questions lol.Yep. Started at 13. Though I advanced really, really slowly for my first 2 years. Plus I've only sat down and practiced stuff on my own twice in the past few years. If I started doing that I'd probably get better faster.
Why would that be taken rudely..? I'm not terrible
MattDotZeb
Smash Hero
This is true.
Then again, I've never really read any Falco guides (aside from when I was first starting. So any guides I've read were from '06 and a tad out of date) so anything I have in my playstyle is from that, random advice I get from other players, and myself.
The other day, The Irish Mafia (of all people) told me "Shine is one of Falco's best moves for tech chasing" and as obvious a statement as it is, I never really used it much for tech chasing. Immediately after he said that, I tried it and my tech chases became a lot more efficient.
I saw such a jump in my performance after incorporating that into my game I figured asking for any advice could be useful.
Also, unknown, we should play at Apex. I haven't played you since that Mass Madness you and Raynex came to
unknown522
Some guy
I wasn't there. Europhoria teamed with Raynex (The tall white guy with blonde hair).
But yeah, we'll play for sure.
But yeah, we'll play for sure.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
i havent been to a tourney since march but who cares lol
falcos grabs are really good for the sole reason that they can be added really fluildly to his existing stupid pressure game and make for good mixups and free damage and he probably has one of the easiest times getting grabs out of anyone in the game short of literally random marth grabs
stay mobile. dont shield alot its preferable to gtfo out of the way
cc in your shield so you can grab/wd out and punish
dont forget shine out of shield
the only time its good to -always- fastfall yoru aerials is if you can get cc punished or you are attacking a shield. not fastfalling can be good because you extend your horizontal range when you don't.
usmash oos too...ppl forget this alot but its a good punish. nair is ite too. wd oos is amazing though no doubt
mix up your mobility with lasers. shinegrab is neat. mix up crossups with fadeaway aerials with grabs with going idle...**** is scary
bthrow can be funny sometimes and **** with people's DI especially floaty characters.
utilt is amazing
fsmash has a hilarious hitbox.
shine stall turn around bair/dair edgeguard especially on cf/ganon is lol
oh and run in shield is good stuff
NEVER FORGET DTILT...OR USMASH LOL
idk im just really tired and felt like typing lol
MattDotZeb
Smash Hero
JPOBS
Smash Hero
confusing unknown with europhoria is like confusing dave chapelle for George W lol
Amsah Falco special
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY0bUgGENfM#t=1m42s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY0bUgGENfM#t=1m42s
SK919
Deal with it
sup bros, I got ***** by peach today. Let's hear those tips.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
who was it? general?
do good melee players have a thing for brawl marth? I remember when darc used to try brawl he wud play marth and wud also **** everyone in our region
sup stingers, yu shud go back to mafia =D
sup stingers, yu shud go back to mafia =D
stingers
Smash Obsessed
wat haha
i played mafia like once and dropped out halfway through
or maybe I was lynched
i just remember abandoning the topic
i played mafia like once and dropped out halfway through
or maybe I was lynched
i just remember abandoning the topic
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
For the most part if they're aerial, Nair is safe.
Otherwise I'd play it safe with bair or dair.
SK919
Deal with it
yah stingerz it was the general
@Slasher: I already talked to you about that. Stop shielding lol.
@Yedi: I dunno but the only reason I could enjoy Brawl was when I played Marth.
No comment on Amsah's Falco unless someone really cares that much.
@Yedi: I dunno but the only reason I could enjoy Brawl was when I played Marth.
No comment on Amsah's Falco unless someone really cares that much.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
haha i always like playing puff in brawl. it's stupid and she's kinda bad but i dont have to think about it.
question: if i wrote a beginner's guide to falco, do you guys think that would be useful or helpful? i think i could write a pretty solid introduction to the important falco-specific techniques, and i dont think there's a good guide on that that's anywhere close to up to date.
i'd leave out all the bs that most guides put in (frame data, explanations on each move, pretentious wording) and just try to explain the important techniques, the fundamental ways to play and think about falco, a guide to how lasering should be used, and solid but straightforward advice for the top 8 or so matchups.
hopefully it would answer a lot of the beginner questions we get from time to time and be a good reference for players to start with. should i go through with it?
question: if i wrote a beginner's guide to falco, do you guys think that would be useful or helpful? i think i could write a pretty solid introduction to the important falco-specific techniques, and i dont think there's a good guide on that that's anywhere close to up to date.
i'd leave out all the bs that most guides put in (frame data, explanations on each move, pretentious wording) and just try to explain the important techniques, the fundamental ways to play and think about falco, a guide to how lasering should be used, and solid but straightforward advice for the top 8 or so matchups.
hopefully it would answer a lot of the beginner questions we get from time to time and be a good reference for players to start with. should i go through with it?
We're pretty active as far as answering questions go(as a board), but I guess maybe some people are just afraid to ask about beginner things they don't get? I know I was afraid when I first started coming here.
Mogwai also covers a lot of general stuff in his thread, but if you mean to make it more basic than that then you may want to take it up with him and see if the difference will really be worth it.
I think any specific concerns people have can be addressed in here or Mogwai's thread for the most part, and if an outline for like lasers or whatever is needed then I could always just type one up and stick it in the OP of this thread.
Just throwing out ideas.
Mogwai also covers a lot of general stuff in his thread, but if you mean to make it more basic than that then you may want to take it up with him and see if the difference will really be worth it.
I think any specific concerns people have can be addressed in here or Mogwai's thread for the most part, and if an outline for like lasers or whatever is needed then I could always just type one up and stick it in the OP of this thread.
Just throwing out ideas.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
huh. i hadnt read mogwai's guide in a long time, that is actually a lot closer to what i was thinking of doing than i remembered it being.
i was thinking somethign a little more concrete though. his section on lasering is totally awesome, but there's no explanation of like, the details of how to accurately combo fox/falco, what openings to look for against marth, why landing shines is so fundamental, things like that. maybe my idea is redundant in light of it, though, since it covers a lot.
and i know the falco boards are really good at answering noob questions, but i feel like doing so is sort of an unnecessary use of resources. if there were one thread where 90% of those questions were answered before being posted, than this thread could be more focused on advanced things and specific questions, and there would be fewer redundant threads popping up. for example, we recently made a thread about isai dropping because of how many questions we get about that, but there are also plenty where people dont understand that they are turning around in shines, and things like that. i figure that trying to remove those sorts of repetitive questions might be worthwhile.
i was thinking somethign a little more concrete though. his section on lasering is totally awesome, but there's no explanation of like, the details of how to accurately combo fox/falco, what openings to look for against marth, why landing shines is so fundamental, things like that. maybe my idea is redundant in light of it, though, since it covers a lot.
and i know the falco boards are really good at answering noob questions, but i feel like doing so is sort of an unnecessary use of resources. if there were one thread where 90% of those questions were answered before being posted, than this thread could be more focused on advanced things and specific questions, and there would be fewer redundant threads popping up. for example, we recently made a thread about isai dropping because of how many questions we get about that, but there are also plenty where people dont understand that they are turning around in shines, and things like that. i figure that trying to remove those sorts of repetitive questions might be worthwhile.
unknown522
Some guy
hahaahahahahaha
OK CALM THE F*** DOWN.
I didn't mean to close this, it's called wtf happens when use use the back button while moderatin' like warren g.
I didn't mean to close this, it's called wtf happens when use use the back button while moderatin' like warren g.
prog
Priest of the Temple of Syrinx
regulating?
unknown522
Some guy
did people get pissed off at you or something?
yea
dogys a lil ********* **** *8**** *************************
dogys a lil ********* **** *8**** *************************
Sion
Island of Horizon
just got around to watching unknown's falco. your falco is pretty solid, unknown.
needs a little work on combos off a shine, a bit on the laser game, and a bit on the edgeguarding. fairly good pressure, though.
again, overall very solid, especially the last game.
needs a little work on combos off a shine, a bit on the laser game, and a bit on the edgeguarding. fairly good pressure, though.
again, overall very solid, especially the last game.
unknown522
Some guy
thanks man. I'll be working on that.
X1-12
Smash Champion
Can someone critique my vids? It doesn't have to be one of the high and mighty
I win the first and third match, but I got nerve johns the whole way through pretty much, you can see me mess up almost everything. I actually played this guy again in losers finals (a mini tourney at my house lol) and lost 3-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82M3wbofXDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNL73AvfHkU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3vTJy5Rdu0&feature=related <-- I probably played best here
There's probably some more with different match-ups coming later
I win the first and third match, but I got nerve johns the whole way through pretty much, you can see me mess up almost everything. I actually played this guy again in losers finals (a mini tourney at my house lol) and lost 3-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82M3wbofXDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNL73AvfHkU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3vTJy5Rdu0&feature=related <-- I probably played best here
There's probably some more with different match-ups coming later
JPOBS
Smash Hero
well you were obviously hella nervous so i wont coment on the technical errors, i'll just say a few things that can be fix'd rather easily
- first of all, you need to be a little smarter about how you recover, a lot of time you would use your double jump, and then firebird very close to the stage, an example being here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3vTJy5Rdu0&feature=related#t=2m2s
in situations like this, you're colpletely vulnerable, the opponent just has to jump out and hit you with ANYTHING. this fox let you get away with but that wouldnt fly vs most people. In that particular example, you could hae simply fell to the ledge from your DJ, didnt even need to Bup. Happened quite a few times through the set.
Second, your combo game is really poor. this is mostly because you almost always full hop or DJ out of your shine. This means that any time you do hit him with shine, you can only follow up if he di's it poorly, if he di's it even decently, he's going to go way out of you range and you would blow a perfectly good death combo opportunity. shine->fj dair is not how falco combos fox.
you should almost always be waveshining out or at the very most short hopping out, your combo game could be a lot better if you did so.
lastly, work on DI'ing his upthrows. especially at low percents to avoid cheap upsmashs and double shines gimps. you almost got double shine gimped in match 2, but he messed up the edgeguard.
so ya, u should almost always be DI'ing his uthrow unless you are trying to break the cg.
hope this helps.
- first of all, you need to be a little smarter about how you recover, a lot of time you would use your double jump, and then firebird very close to the stage, an example being here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3vTJy5Rdu0&feature=related#t=2m2s
in situations like this, you're colpletely vulnerable, the opponent just has to jump out and hit you with ANYTHING. this fox let you get away with but that wouldnt fly vs most people. In that particular example, you could hae simply fell to the ledge from your DJ, didnt even need to Bup. Happened quite a few times through the set.
Second, your combo game is really poor. this is mostly because you almost always full hop or DJ out of your shine. This means that any time you do hit him with shine, you can only follow up if he di's it poorly, if he di's it even decently, he's going to go way out of you range and you would blow a perfectly good death combo opportunity. shine->fj dair is not how falco combos fox.
you should almost always be waveshining out or at the very most short hopping out, your combo game could be a lot better if you did so.
lastly, work on DI'ing his upthrows. especially at low percents to avoid cheap upsmashs and double shines gimps. you almost got double shine gimped in match 2, but he messed up the edgeguard.
so ya, u should almost always be DI'ing his uthrow unless you are trying to break the cg.
hope this helps.
X1-12
Smash Champion
Thanks loads, that a big help =]
also how do I deal with pressure? watching them again I can't believe how many times I messed up simple things like fastfalling and L-cancelling. things I can do 100% (honest) in freindlies
also how do I deal with pressure? watching them again I can't believe how many times I messed up simple things like fastfalling and L-cancelling. things I can do 100% (honest) in freindlies
prog
Priest of the Temple of Syrinx
Kanelol
Smash Lord
moderatin' like warren g
X1-12
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SuCnZIrQPc
advice vs jiggs? I'm much less nervous for this one
Thanks loads in advance, I love the falco boards
advice vs jiggs? I'm much less nervous for this one
Thanks loads in advance, I love the falco boards
Oskar
Smash Cadet
Finally got some decent 1v1 footage of my Falco in action, anyone wanna take a look and tell me what I need to improve on?
Vs. Fox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrDJuOMPe6Y
Vs. Samus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_ClikyNsVo
Vs. Marth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVhXZDNx2E4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_khh1wvY1Mc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ua7IQ1SH0
Thank you in advance!!! =]
Vs. Fox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrDJuOMPe6Y
Vs. Samus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_ClikyNsVo
Vs. Marth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVhXZDNx2E4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_khh1wvY1Mc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ua7IQ1SH0
Thank you in advance!!! =]