Winston
Smash Master
isn't falco's shine oos 6 frames?
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Sion
Island of Horizon
i thought it takes 4 frames to jump oos, then 1 frame to activate shine
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
It's 6/7 frames. Falco's airbone on frame 6, but I suck at frame maths and I dunno if the shine comes out on frame 6 or 7. I suppose it's frame 6, but I'm not sure
unknown522
Some guy
you cancel before he leaves the ground though. It's probably not 6 frames.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
this is how i understand it
also, Mogwai has said it like 44394859 times
Winston
Smash Master
The first airborne frame of Falco's jump is frame 6, which is when he can shine. So it'd be 6 frames.
@ unknown: I'm pretty sure you can't shine until you are in the air. JC shines are a misnomer - the canceling that is happening isn't the shine canceling the jump like a JC grab. It's the shine canceling the upwards movement on the first airborne frame so you land on the ground immediately.
references:
SuperDoodleMan's frame data
this post on Falco's multishining :
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2713277&postcount=40
@ unknown: I'm pretty sure you can't shine until you are in the air. JC shines are a misnomer - the canceling that is happening isn't the shine canceling the jump like a JC grab. It's the shine canceling the upwards movement on the first airborne frame so you land on the ground immediately.
references:
SuperDoodleMan's frame data
this post on Falco's multishining :
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2713277&postcount=40
ok, fair enough, but my reaction time is ****. I just guess on everything
JPOBS
Smash Hero
arent those exactly the same thing?
nope, they most certainly aren't.
JC for anything other than Shine refers to canceling the jump entirely during it's startup frames. you never actually leave the ground from your jump because you cancel it.
a JC shine on the other hand requires you to become airborne.
JC for anything other than Shine refers to canceling the jump entirely during it's startup frames. you never actually leave the ground from your jump because you cancel it.
a JC shine on the other hand requires you to become airborne.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
oh, ya that makes sense, guess i wasnt really paying attention.
unknown522
Some guy
alright. Learning more.
Sion
Island of Horizon
so technically speaking it'd be unsafe for falco to shine oos fox's drillshine?
i don't have the Fox dair on shield frame data handy, but the fastest you can Shine OoS is on frame 6.
X1-12
Smash Champion
its hard to define unsafe. Its do-able, but can be risky I guess
Also people, If I want to get a vid recorded for critique, should it be of me playing someone roughly equal skill or of me getting absolutely ***** by someone?
Also people, If I want to get a vid recorded for critique, should it be of me playing someone roughly equal skill or of me getting absolutely ***** by someone?
prog
Priest of the Temple of Syrinx
honestly, i like seeing players fight someone a tier lower, on the same tier, and then a tier higher. gives a nice scope.
Winston
Smash Master
well, I've seen one analysis (Scotu's) say that after fox lands there's a 5 frame window:
from this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109595
and another (KirbyKaze's/JPOBS') say that there's a 7 frame window.
I think the difference is that Scotu did it for a non-fastfalled drill.
So... if the Fox is frame perfect, then it's possible to shine oos vs a fastfalled drill, and not possible vs. a non-fastfalled drill.
Realistically, they probably won't be frame perfect either way so it would be possible, though difficult to time.
Sion
Island of Horizon
possible, but risky and difficult... now i gotta do a lot of thinking about what possible counters i have to it.
Winston
Smash Master
Well it's not guaranteed to work, but the reward is really high right? landing a shine on a fox.
Would it be reasonable to do it and be ready to tech the shine? That would minimize the risk.
Would it be reasonable to do it and be ready to tech the shine? That would minimize the risk.
Sion
Island of Horizon
i've always been meaning to practice teching fox's shine, but i've never got around to actually thinking about it ingame/offgame.
that's definitely interesting, gustav, and i'll probably attempt to learn it in the near future.
that's definitely interesting, gustav, and i'll probably attempt to learn it in the near future.
unknown522
Some guy
on drill shine, it's always safe. You have to do it after the shine. If they double shine though, then you'll get hit.
Also, when my vids are up within a few days or so, then I will ask for critique.
G.I._JOE
Smash Journeyman
Is jumping OoS after the attack ends on your shield or can it be done during the hitstun? By the way is falcos early dair one of those moves that you can still see the animation even after hitstun ends so it sort of hard to find the timing?
you shoot her and don't attack. samus is boring, but if you don't just sit back and shoot her, you'll lose vs. her broken *** defensive game, so just shoot her
a lot
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW
a lot
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW
Blunted_object10
Smash Master
Sion is a beast! He beat me the past 2 tournaments in a row!
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
nothing can be done during hitstun
when a move hits you you experience a certain amount of hitstun. when those frames are over you can jump (or roll or spot dodge or shieldgrab). you jump after the hitstun, as fast as possible usually.
falco's early dair is extremely easy to punish. if a falco dairs early on your shield, grab or jump or do anything you want. he's easy pickings for like 20 frames or something ridiculous.
Faab
Smash Ace
You can also just camp the samus on any stage with a top platform. Yoshi's, Fountain, Dreamland and Battlefield.
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
unknown522
Some guy
yeah, what the hell happened? Are there vids?
people were johning for you....
you have to, because her up-b OoS is so stupid, along with her WD back. She also doesn't get combo'd very hard, so it's not worth it to approach at all.
at what percent should i approach and with what move? And tips on avoiding missles while lasering?
GooeyBanana
Smash Lord
What button combos does everyone here use to shine OoS out of curiosity? Also, seeing as I'm trying to switch to Falco still, is there any routines or any techniques I should practice(minus the obvious waveshine, etc) when no one's around to play?
unknown522
Some guy
if you can hit a d-air, then any percent is good for approaching. If you're using any other move to approach other than shine and grab, then you have to get her above 65%, otherwise she'll just CC everything.
When approaching her shield, you have to stay outside of her up-b range. Her only option is to WD back OoS, because you can easily punish her if she rolls or jumps. If you find that your opponent shields a lot, then you can try to trap her at the edge, while spacing on her shield. If she WDs back to grab the ledge, then she has no safe options from the ledge, so you can punish her. The problem is that every punish is only like 2-3 hits, usually.
Also, shining the missiles is good too.
I use L to shield and Y + B to shine Oos. Exactly the same as how I SHDL with fox.
prog
Priest of the Temple of Syrinx
I'm weird. I use y for everything and R for everything.
G.I._JOE
Smash Journeyman
i used to do that lol its all good
unknown522
Some guy
I used to be the only one in the toronto scene to use Y+L.
Now most people do. Or they use both triggers.
Now most people do. Or they use both triggers.
Kanelol
Smash Lord
Y+L
unless im wavedashing, then the R comes out
unless im wavedashing, then the R comes out
X+L
I use those 2 buttons for pretty much anything I could use them for. I tech on the ground with R though...kinda weird.
I use those 2 buttons for pretty much anything I could use them for. I tech on the ground with R though...kinda weird.
mers
Smash Ace
I was under the impression that Samus players love it when you shine their missiles, because they can dash attack them laglessly, which gives them a slight frame advantage and more importantly allows them to close space with you.
word
same with me
cept R is like wavedashing button.
I wonder what I airdodge and tech with, it's hard to remember unless i'm actually playing.
i do doubleshines with X and sometimes I mess up cuz i do em too fast. I feel like if I changed to Y, but fox doubleshines wud be amazing.