PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Bones0]

Don't people techroll mad far? How does Falco actually catch people who just techroll away from him on flat ground

Phant asm

 

[Brookman]

^----- legit strategy

 

[JPOBS]

I'm starting to think dthrow -> jab reset is one of the better things Falco can do from grabs...

Or am I just dumb?

upthrow seems to combo into everything vs everyone these days. idk wat happened between 2007 and now

 

[MattDotZeb]

Don't people techroll mad far? How does Falco actually catch people who just techroll away from him on flat ground

Phantasm, lasers, or taking advantage of the positional advantage you have after forcing an opponent to roll.
It's also hilarious to do dthrow -> tech chase laser -> dthrow -> repeat. So there's another option for you even if they do tech!

Also, it's a free combo string when you get it.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HtI5tPQ3GU&feature=youtu.be&t=3m10s

You do have to watch to see if they DI behind you, because you would then have to turn-around jab.

 

[ZoSo]

Slox you suck I **** zoso e-z

j/k <3 zoso ;D

It's true.

I'm starting to think dthrow -> jab reset is one of the better things Falco can do from grabs...

Or am I just dumb?

It's kinda gimmicky, but dthrow in general has uses I think. Anything you can do from a grab with Falco is good, since he doesn't have a lot of guaranteed stuff.

 

[Wenbobular]

Uhh ... sure ...

I'd rather take the positional advantage of throwing them into the air but whatever floats your boat I guess ...

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Dthrow: May depend on how far the tech roll goes of the character you're fighting. So, I may like this more vs say Falcon than vs Falco(who has a really long tech roll).

I never experiment with Dthrow vs most characters outside of Fox, but I might as well play with it because the worst that could happen is I discover it doesn't work for me. Free hits are cool if this throw can help with that.

 

[clowsui]

off topic but kevin

french open

are you watching

 

[Kyandid]

also off topic but i'm really bad at Falco and would appreciate a little help.

Could anyone give me some basic tips or pointers on recovering vs. Marth? I keep getting edgecamped by fsmash and shffldair and need to know if there are any special ways I should think about recovering vs. him.

 

[Wenbobular]

You should be able to double jump sweetspot past Fsmash <_<...

If you mean just recovering past it, then you can sweetspot your up-b past onstage edgeguards or recover higher to throw off the timing

Don't try phantasming through them if they're just Fsmashing the ledge though, that's like ... not what you want to be doing

 

[Max?]

I will **** you all at badminton not even joking

This dude



Also, pretty sure my tourney record vs. Dave is 1-0 in my favor. Get exposed all of NE

 

[S l o X]

yo honestly i'd like to see the rematch.

so get off the boards and go to the next tourney !

 

[knightpraetor]

i think marth's fsmash can hit you even if you try to sweetspot your double jump, but fsmash is a freaking horrible edgeguard that only hits below the stage for like a frame and has so many frames of startup that the marth's accuracy is always reduced over timing something fast like dtilt to hit under the stage....

also, if they are fsmashing, just learn to DI and win...fsmashing was so much better back in 2007 before foxes all started DIing to the top corner of the map and getting another chance at recovery. I mean it's still viable at really high percents, but it's definitely not the preferred edgeguard..every time marth fsmash edgeguards you you should feel happy knowing that you get YET ANOTHER chance to live.

 

[oliman]

doesn't plain airdodging beat fsmash? i mean, theres so much lag on marth that youre probably able to punish him for fsmashing

 

[Wenbobular]

I laugh every time I see a Marth miss a tipper Fsmash on an edgeguard it's pretty comical
Unless the Falco is DIing bad then it's like the saddest ****

 

[Kyandid]

Hey guys, thanks for the help. Like I said, I'm a bad player, and only picked up Falco (and melee) recently.

Trying to recover high and working on my DI has helped me a lot. I also realized that when I played vs. Marth I'm usually the person with my back to the edge, and I'm going to try to fix that.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Bones0]

Hey guys, thanks for the help. Like I said, I'm a bad player, and only picked up Falco (and melee) recently.

Trying to recover high and working on my DI has helped me a lot. I also realized that when I played vs. Marth I'm usually the person with my back to the edge, and I'm going to try to fix that.

Thanks for the help!

DI up. You're probably recovering from way lower than you have to be. Also learn to shorten Phantasm (just press B again as soon as the move starts).

 

[Moooose]

pp 2 questions
what stage did u ban against m2k at zenith?
and why did u go marth against him on fd? was it that you didnt think your falco could win? or that you were willing to take a loss in order to keep your momentum with falco? or did you think your marth would win?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i can tell you there were no bans in the bo5. the rest is his story.

 

[Bones0]

It's cause he knows M2K destroys spacies on FD like it's his job (and he was coming off of a JV4 from Winners, so he had no reason to doubt it would end similarly). His Marth actually did pretty good, but M2K lives and breaths Marth dittos almost as much as he does spacies. Then for the last game... well... I think we all know what happened...

 

[Kyandid]

DI up. You're probably recovering from way lower than you have to be. Also learn to shorten Phantasm (just press B again as soon as the move starts).

This also helped a lot. Is DI'ing up something I should consistently do against Marth, or only when I'm knocked offstage?

 

[Bones0]

Only do it when you're at higher %s and they are going for KOs. Otherwise you'll just keep DIing into Ken Combos or fair-tippers and stuff. You may actually need to angle a little bit towards them depending on the trajectory the move sends you at. Remember that the way to live as long as possible is to aim your trajectory into the corner by DIing perpendicular to your trajectory. So if the corner blastzone is at 45 degrees and a move sends you at a 30 degree angle, you should DI with your stick at 120. It's also important to take the stage into account, however, because the corner blastzone will not usually be 45 degrees exactly. If you are on the right side of Pokemon Stadium and get fsmashed to the left, obviously DIing at a 45 would be horrible because the longest angle to the corner blastzone would be closer to 35 or something. Conversely, on FoD the sides are very thin, but the ceiling is very high, so DIing as vertically as possible is often the best choice. DIing is so hard to get perfect. :/


PP, you should post a response to this thread. :D

 

[Dr Peepee]

pp 2 questions
what stage did u ban against m2k at zenith?
and why did u go marth against him on fd? was it that you didnt think your falco could win? or that you were willing to take a loss in order to keep your momentum with falco? or did you think your marth would win?

Like chris said, no bans in that ruleset.

As for Marth on FD, I can't just give one reason for that. I had strong recommendations from many people to try it, and I felt like I'd have thrown away the match with Falco had I went there. Plus, I am seriously working on my Marth and wanted to see how he'd do.

You're very right that CG'ing destroys momentum which is really bad, but I'm not sure if I considered that at the time or not.

I believed(and still believe) my Marth could beat M2K's on FD(not after a while either, just straight up). I just didn't prove it this time *shrug.*

PP, you should post a response to this thread. :D

hehehehe, I was thinking about it. I'll go do that now I suppose. =p

 

[Warhawk]

That thread's kinda weird.

 

[Vash the Stampede]

Like chris said, no bans in that ruleset.

Just watched that set, it was amazing. Yet, if you say there were no bans then a few questions come to mind. After taking game 1 on DL you played a marth ditto on FD which M2K took, then a match on poke. THen M2K wanted to take you back to FD yet it seemed like you used dans stupid rule to not get him to play there and then you took the 5th match to DL....wouldn't the same rule have applied if you already won that match previously on DL? I figured it was some technicalities due to banning issues that you were allowed to take M2K back there but if what you say is true how did that work out as it did?

 

[Dr Peepee]

DSR=You can't go to the LAST stage you won on. Since I also won on PS later I could go back to DL(if that was where game 1 was....I don't remember lol).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

DSR = no stage
DSRM = last stage

 

[Bones0]

It's Dave's Stupid Rule... not DAN'S. XD

DSR is dumb. You should just get a ban. If someone doesn't want to play the last stage they lost on, they can ban it themselves. There's no reason to take the decision out of the player's control, as far as I can tell. People just think it's dumb when someone wins twice on the same stage (even though most people would not cp the stage they struck to game 1, even if they won).

 

[Dr Peepee]

DSR = no stage
DSRM = last stage

I think it was just called DSR on the Zenith website so that's what I ws going off of.

Thanks for the info though I'll keep that in mind.



Edit: WD'ing with Falco is, in general, amazing. Just like most things that could be lasers with that character.

 

[Bones0]

Nah, Zenith was DSRM. Otherwise M2K wouldn't have been able to go back to FD.

 

[unknown522]

Lol. Dan's stupid rule

 

[Moooose]

ah thanks for the response.
i've been struggling with the falco ditto matchup for quite a while, anyone wanna give me a few pointers?

 

[Wenbobular]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEelEBDu9E&feature=channel&list=UL - vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoolhl6FjeY&feature=plcp - vs Peach

If anyone wants to have a go at these
I know I don't grab nearly as much as I should and some of the combo / edgeguard choices I know I messed up

If you see me doing something super terrible in neutral though I'm all ears

Also me vs G-reg should be coming eventually

 

[Bones0]

Would PP or anyone else care to write a breakdown about edgeguarding spacies? Sometimes it seems like I pick the worst option every time. Just knowing general stuff like when to grab the ledge vs. stay on stage would be helpful. Once I actually get an edgeguard going I finish it pretty well. It's just preventing those initial quick side-Bs without leaving myself open to whiffing an up-B mixup.

 

[Little England]

@Moose; I'm sure Unknown and PP can offer some sick advice, but I'll just thrown in my 2 cents for the hell of it

I think Falco dittos are super hard to be consistent in (probably the hardest MU to be consistent in with Falco imo). As I'm sure you know, the nature of the MU is 1 hit = big damage/a stock loss. So basically, you have to maximize your potential to hit the Falco. All of my advice is based upon this mentality of the MU.

-The number one thing to remember is that it is VERY hard for Falco to escape from Falco (because he's pretty slow) so if you can establish your pressure first you'll maximize your potential to get a hit.
-Lasers are imo the #1 thing to focus on in this MU. Mixup your laser approaches to keep the other Falco guessing, while also paying attention to habitual shield habits. It's very common that falcos jump out of shield. Catch his full jump oos with your full jump lasers. If they are a noob they'll definitely double jump in the air and then you can **** them lol. There are a whole bunch of things like this that happen with lasers so just explore.

-(insert escaping pressure stuff)

/I'm actually in the airport in Vegas about to go back to SoCal so I'll have to wrap this up when I get there.

 

[Bones0]

One thing I've noticed about Falco dittos is it is much more about getting a solid hit than simply getting the first hit. Bad Falco dittos have each player doing stuff like tapping each other with AC bairs or tilts, but then you watch Mango vs. PP and they seem to always be coming in hot with late dair-shines or working off grabs.

 

[Dr Peepee]

ah thanks for the response.
i've been struggling with the falco ditto matchup for quite a while, anyone wanna give me a few pointers?

Get your laser out, use powershielding/height tricks(jumping or platforms) to get your laser out if his is out, and use Bair/sometimes Uptilt to counter his approaches.

Upsmash OOS his pressure obviously.

Also, a good tip to keep in mind is that the matchup is always big momentum shifts. One Falco is typically running from the one with the laser out. So if you get a Falco in shield take strong advantage but also understand he's gonna try to fight his way out usually.

If you need help with anything specific let me know. That's the standard Falco ditto advice I usually give.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEelEBDu9E&feature=channel&list=UL - vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoolhl6FjeY&feature=plcp - vs Peach

If anyone wants to have a go at these
I know I don't grab nearly as much as I should and some of the combo / edgeguard choices I know I messed up

If you see me doing something super terrible in neutral though I'm all ears

Also me vs G-reg should be coming eventually

I'll get these tomorrow.

Would PP or anyone else care to write a breakdown about edgeguarding spacies? Sometimes it seems like I pick the worst option every time. Just knowing general stuff like when to grab the ledge vs. stay on stage would be helpful. Once I actually get an edgeguard going I finish it pretty well. It's just preventing those initial quick side-Bs without leaving myself open to whiffing an up-B mixup.

Well mine are a work in progress personally but I've gotten way better at edgeguards on spacies lately imo. Fox at least lol I don't get to fight good recovering Falcos as often.

I tried to write some quick tips but couldn't do it. Preoccupied atm but I'll also respond to this at length tomorrow. =)

 

[unknown522]

@ Moose: If you find yourself getting forced to shield, or getting run down in general, then get really good at shine oos in falco dittos. In turn, learn tricks that will prevent you from getting shined oos (low aerials, double shines, spacing around their shine, etc). Even at high level, there are a lot of chances that come up to shine oos among falco players.

Also, know when you can't shine oos when the opponent is trying to avoid it and find an alternative to shining oos.

oh yeah, and grab.

A few years back, one day when Raynex, I.B. and I were rotating on falco dittos for 5 hours, Raynex called it 'grab a friend'. It kinda stuck with us now.

Most of the time when you grab a shielding opponent, they probably won't DI your throw. So you can usually shine or aerial vs other spacies out of u-throw. I even can't count the amount of times I have gotten a death combo or a gimp out of a u-throw with falco vs spacies.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Wenbo, I was going to tell you how nice your vs Peach is, but then you got downsmashed billions of times.

 

[Bones0]

It's a MD thing.