Little England
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9lCwJIFjc&feature=relmfuYeah that maight be true.
What set are you talking about btw, would like to see it
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9lCwJIFjc&feature=relmfuYeah that maight be true.
What set are you talking about btw, would like to see it
if we agree to ban coaching, then yes. if we agree not to, then the point is to test those players' ability to play while being coached. It's a different skill but not a clearly inferior or meaningless one.I don't exactly want to get into this here, but isn't the point of tournament to test just those players?
If that's what you really wanted, you'd be fighting against crowd cheering too. It's rarely ever just 2 minds against each other when you're dealing with big players. A good player will overcome what he needs to overcome.I don't exactly want to get into this here, but isn't the point of tournament to test just those players? For example, when it's not Mango + Peepee vs Armada, it's Mango vs Armada. Sure, they're both still playing, regardless of who is coaching them, but the point is to see if your mind, and your mind alone, is able to deal with everything that tournament throws at you, and overcome it.
The issue I have is mainly coaching during matches. Coaching in between sets or matches is fine (in my opinion) because this is the time for reflecting on what you observed, and reforming/redoing your strategies. Support from a coach/friend in this instance doesn't seem to have any visible issues.
I don't even have an issue with pep talks really. The only instance I have in mind where the coaching seemed odd to me was Hbox being coached by that Brawl player (I forget his name).If that's what you really wanted, you'd be fighting against crowd cheering too. It's rarely ever just 2 minds against each other when you're dealing with big players. A good player will overcome what he needs to overcome.
I coached Lucky against Armada too, didn't work out for him there.
Also, if you all heard what I have said when coaching Lucky and Mango in their matches, you'd all realize you're fighting against nothing more than solid pep talk. I literally just talk to keep them focused and positive. Do you know how distracting it'd be if I actually said things like "back air here, no no, jump cancel your grab now, WAIT, fast fall, bait his dsmash, then double jump to drill shine usmash!"
that last paragraph is the funniest comment.If that's what you really wanted, you'd be fighting against crowd cheering too. It's rarely ever just 2 minds against each other when you're dealing with big players. A good player will overcome what he needs to overcome.
I coached Lucky against Armada too, didn't work out for him there.
Also, if you all heard what I have said when coaching Lucky and Mango in their matches, you'd all realize you're fighting against nothing more than solid pep talk. I literally just talk to keep them focused and positive. Do you know how distracting it'd be if I actually said things like "back air here, no no, jump cancel your grab now, WAIT, fast fall, bait his dsmash, then double jump to drill shine usmash!"
Yes, this. I don't think crowd cheering is comparable either. They're technically the same thing (external influences on the match), but intuitively I think it's obvious that there's a difference between background noise/hype and coaching. (Doesn't matter if it's pep talk or strategy because that can't be proven or enforced). Plus you can always wear headphones to block out cheering. I mean, I'd have to ask one of the traditional fighting game guys for a solid argument for why coaching should be banned, but I'd say that it has the potential to be a bigger external factor than crowd hype and whatnot, even if most players aren't abusing it yet. Not that I have any say in the decision, but 2 cents, etc.I don't exactly want to get into this here, but isn't the point of tournament to test just those players? For example, when it's not Mango + Peepee vs Armada, it's Mango vs Armada. Sure, they're both still playing, regardless of who is coaching them, but the point is to see if your mind, and your mind alone, is able to deal with everything that tournament throws at you, and overcome it.
The issue I have is mainly coaching during matches. Coaching in between sets or matches is fine (in my opinion) because this is the time for reflecting on what you observed, and reforming/redoing your strategies. Support from a coach/friend in this instance doesn't seem to have any visible issues.
Also this. Coaching might actually make a significant difference to low-level matches since pros can probably see things in 10 seconds that scrubs would miss. By this point you're just rewarding people who befriend as many pros as they can. Again, it's not the same kind of external influence as, say, someone's phone ringing.I think coaching is more of a problem with lower level players. I played a set at RoM3 I think where wife came up and started coaching the guy I was playing against mid match. Something like that is not only distracting but disconcerting. Even if he wasn't getting really useful information, it still made me feel like I was playing against wife and not random scrub X.
I keep hearing about this and I kinda want to read his argument now. Can you please direct or link me to the thread he did this in?Coaching sucks (as in it should be banned). Amsah has already viciously destroyed every single pro-coaching argument there is like 10 times. Stubborn people are all that remains.
Just to take this a step further. How would you advise I DI a dair-shine vs. a peach's d-smash. This is my most common matchup and my l-cancels are far from perfect. Quite often I miss an l-cancel and look for a shine, thus the analog stick is already down and I get totally messed up by a cc d-smash followed by terrible DI, do I have to rely on reaction time here, or is there a safer alternative?Use the control stick to DI
I dunno about shield stun, but on hit it's at least +8 on hit after landing lag.how many frames of stun is falco's laser again?
preferably i would like normal, and CC, and shield stun. I'm going go put it in my text file of useful data
bones help out..just pm me. or someone tell me what thread to search. but if you know that you could just answer. i swear i saw them talking about this earlier but didn't memorize the numbers
If you miss your l-cancel, you might want to just prepare for DI, especially if you don't think you can get the shine off. On the other hand, a good alternative might be to light shield peach's dsmash. Your shield comes out fast, and it's a little safer than shining.Just to take this a step further. How would you advise I DI a dair-shine vs. a peach's d-smash. This is my most common matchup and my l-cancels are far from perfect. Quite often I miss an l-cancel and look for a shine, thus the analog stick is already down and I get totally messed up by a cc d-smash followed by terrible DI, do I have to rely on reaction time here, or is there a safer alternative?
I guess the easy answer is: hit your l-cancel idiot. But is there some way that people buffer their DI just in case? Maybe my mind just hasn't caught up to the intricacies of DI? I'm just not sure.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291203I keep hearing about this and I kinda want to read his argument now. Can you please direct or link me to the thread he did this in?
Thanks for the link. Some of the strawmen he had to dismantle in the first thread are kind of lol.http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291203
^Most of it is in that thread.
There's also this thread, although coaching wasn't the actual topic in this case, so you'll have to search for the coaching posts: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290671
look, I'm more or less impartial on the coaching debate, but it's really really hilarious to me that you're talking about Amsah dismantling stawmen when the first page I read was basically Amsah saying that coaching is equivalent to a 2nd player plugging in and 2v1ing. Sorry, no one went in deep in the thread from what I read, it was just a bunch of people arguing poorly.Thanks for the link. Some of the strawmen he had to dismantle in the first thread are kind of lol.
in your ideal world. this is very much a matter of opinion. professional sports all have rules that allow coaching, and they're all pretty arbitrary about what's acceptable for coaching because well, it's just arbitrary what's acceptable.In an ideal world I think it shouldn't be allowed unless the other player has expressed that they are ok with it. The problem is being able to enforce a restriction on it...
KK saying all the right things...We should all just shoot more lasers.
No no, by "ideal world" I mean one where this could actually be easily enforced, I didn't mean my opinion was what's ideal. Also in many sports that allow coaching are sports where there's a team involved and so having a good coach is part of having a good team. Most sports that revolve around the competition between individuals as far as I'm aware do not, for the most part, have coaching during the events. Boxing mostly it is in between rounds and for smash I'd be ok with coaching in between matches, but during the match I just don't like. I know it's kind of arbitrary but when people travel all that distance with money on the line to play against one person I do think in the end they should be playing just that one person.in your ideal world. this is very much a matter of opinion. professional sports all have rules that allow coaching, and they're all pretty arbitrary about what's acceptable for coaching because well, it's just arbitrary what's acceptable.