PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[ZodiakLucien]

go earn it like the rest of us did. it's really not that hard.

i applied for it like 2 years ago. i guess im too much of a baddie at melee

 

[FoxLisk]

im really bad at pressuring people when they're above me and have to come down. i know it's a good position for me but i never seem to convert, and i often overstep myself and end up just swapping places which sucks. anyone have advice on how to handle this effectively?

 

[Divinokage]

Just like Cyrain coaching Chillindude at Apex, ffs.

 

[Warhawk]

Why sometimes when you dair someone at mid to higher percents does it send them in a slow arc instead of in a quick line down like normally?

 

[Mogwai]

LOL. that **** cray

Ye can we get married at the maaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll



goddamn it.



anyway, Coaching is such a touchy subject in Melee. I think people feel very differently about it and that's why there have never really been well defined coaching rules in Melee. I don't really care about that **** personally, but I get why it bugs some peopel.

 

[unknown522]

Why sometimes when you dair someone at mid to higher percents does it send them in a slow arc instead of in a quick line down like normally?

if they are in shine hitstun when you hit them, it will do that.

As to why? dunno.

 

[Strong Badam]

the coaching at apex was ********
enter singles for a 1v1, doubles for a 2v2 bro

 

[FoxLisk]

the coaching at apex was ********
enter singles for a 1v1, doubles for a 2v2 bro

you have to present a better argument than that. from what i understand, it was clear from the outset that 1v1 games allowed a coach for each player.

Personally I think they should just be honestly separated into separate events - coached and uncoached singles - but I've never heard a coherent argument for why one is superior to the other in general.

 

[Warhawk]

if they are in shine hitstun when you hit them, it will do that.

As to why? dunno.

Yea that's when I seemed to notice it the most. I'm wondering how easily it can intentionally be used to link into finishing moves at higher percents where they'd normally be difficult to link into, like shine->dair->dsmash/fsmash. Since they aren't spiked as fast by the dair in that situation it seems like it could allow you enough time to do that before they hit the ground and can tech out of it. Problem is getting it intentionally lol.

 

[Deleted member]

i applied for it like 2 years ago. i guess im too much of a baddie at melee

It's not about skill level.

I think coaching should be allowed so long as the advice is given between matches and not during. While it's only a mild semantic difference, it's still on the player to perform in the match itself.

Networking and sharing ideas is essential to top level play anyway. I don't see a major difference of doing it between sets and during sets.

 

[FoxLisk]

I don't see a major difference of doing it between sets and during sets.

I don't see a major difference of doing it between matches and during matches.



To be more clear - I am well aware of the differences, I just don't see any objective reason to favour one over the other. Every argument I've ever heard boils down to "because I find it more compelling to watch matches between players who are being tested on the skills* required to succeed without in-game coaching than matches between players who are being tested on the skills* required to succeed with in-game coaching."
That argument is valid insofar as we should organize things to appeal to the majority of smashers, but it should be out in the open that it's an arbitrary, consensus-driven thing and not some objective truth.

*I'm aware that having a good coach as a resource is not an in-game skill and will be tested for if we allow coaches - I'm willing to accept this as a reason against in-game coaching if someone can demonstrate or at least argue convincingly that having access to a good coach is a more significant factor on coached melee than having access to high level training partners is on uncoached melee.

 

[HugS™]

wtf what does that have to do with anything tho.
what ronzell said was funny...all there is to it. nothing to do with that old ****

Lol it has everything to do with that. I don't know Ronzell one bit, he singled me out completely unprovoked...

Then I read his location, and it all made sense.

i mean if someone can't win without a coach they shouldn't win they're worse.

If only NC really did stay out of the way of the players. You think Joey had an easy time with half the room yelling "STACK IT UP" at ridiculously distracting decibels?

When Joey sat in a corner vs Kage in the bracket, I asked Kage if he was cool with me coaching him, he respectfully said no, and I let the two men play quietly. NC wanted to get loud and distracting, so I was there to help the homie out. It was a fair match.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean I personally would accept coaching mid-match before banning it completely. I think it's really futile to try to control the actions of others and coaching is just a good way to instigate problems so long as it's taboo.

 

[HugS™]

Lol, also, I was coaching Joey moreso while he was getting 4 stocked by PP than I did in the matches that followed.

I'd like to think you're all not dumb enough to believe that my words were the difference between a 4 stocking and a 2 match comeback. NC just wanted something to get mad about, and stay mad about...

Let it go.

 

[stingers]

you are the one in here that cant let it go dude...nobody else cares. seriously.

 

[unknown522]

Yea that's when I seemed to notice it the most. I'm wondering how easily it can intentionally be used to link into finishing moves at higher percents where they'd normally be difficult to link into, like shine->dair->dsmash/fsmash. Since they aren't spiked as fast by the dair in that situation it seems like it could allow you enough time to do that before they hit the ground and can tech out of it. Problem is getting it intentionally lol.

There's a vid of Eggm comboing d-air -> shine like 4 or 5 times on m2k's marth starting from over 60% cuz of that slow descent

 

[big sleep]

i googled "falsely attributing personal criticism, symptom of condition where nuts are too far up ***hole" but i don't think i found anything useful, so you're on your own hugS.

 

[Divinokage]

Lol it has everything to do with that. I don't know Ronzell one bit, he singled me out completely unprovoked...

Then I read his location, and it all made sense.



If only NC really did stay out of the way of the players. You think Joey had an easy time with half the room yelling "STACK IT UP" at ridiculously distracting decibels?

When Joey sat in a corner vs Kage in the bracket, I asked Kage if he was cool with me coaching him, he respectfully said no, and I let the two men play quietly. NC wanted to get loud and distracting, so I was there to help the homie out. It was a fair match.

Ah ya at Pound 4, I still lost though. =P

 

[HugS™]

you are the one in here that cant let it go dude...nobody else cares. seriously.

LOL almost without fail, anytime I post on a board that you're a part of, you'll either say something about me, or follow along and laugh at someone else saying something about me, funny or not. (Ronzell is far from funny might I add)

I don't recall ever meeting you, I don't recall ever exchanging words with you until you provoked me. In fact, I had no idea who you were until you started mentioning my name with a kind of annoyance that I couldn't ignore.

You can't act like you're above all this, then take every chance you get to poke at me LOL. You're angry, annoyed, and bothered by me for some reason, and I don't know why. Cuz I have an ego, cuz I get defensive? Either way, big deal dude, I'm not your concern, and I never even talk about you.

You can just stop responding now if you're really going to act like you don't care about things. I'll gladly let it end.

i googled "falsely attributing personal criticism, symptom of condition where nuts are too far up ***hole" but i don't think i found anything useful, so you're on your own hugS.

So you're telling me that you go around forming grandiose opinions about people off of a single post? LOL right. Your insult was 100% the result of some kind of hate that's been brewing in NC for a while now. Don't play dumb, and DEFINITELY stop pretending to be a comedian LOL

You're barely funny dude LOL. Like, reread what you said. Your sense of humor really involves heavy usage of the words "nuts" and "***hole". Not even in the ironic kind of way either, you legitimately find that funny, and try to deliver the same sh*t in a variety of ways. Look at your default dude LOOOOOL. You actually put that there and thought "this is gonna be hilarious!".

LOOL nvm, it's all funny now.

Ah ya at Pound 4, I still lost though. =P

NC still woulda blamed the coaching.

 

[Tee ay eye]

im pretty sure a giant crowd of people yelling "STACK IT UP" makes a much larger (and much more negative) impact than telling your friend to keep his chin up.

 

[Strong Badam]

you have to present a better argument than that. from what i understand, it was clear from the outset that 1v1 games allowed a coach for each player.

Personally I think they should just be honestly separated into separate events - coached and uncoached singles - but I've never heard a coherent argument for why one is superior to the other in general.

it was in the ruleset. i am against this, much like how I'm against banning wobbling. same deal.

 

[stingers]

LOL I can't believe NC is still salty about **** that happened like...2-3 years ago?

wtf what does that have to do with anything tho.
what ronzell said was funny...all there is to it. nothing to do with that old ****

Lol it has everything to do with that. I don't know Ronzell one bit, he singled me out completely unprovoked...

Then I read his location, and it all made sense.

Lol, also, I was coaching Joey moreso while he was getting 4 stocked by PP than I did in the matches that followed.

I'd like to think you're all not dumb enough to believe that my words were the difference between a 4 stocking and a 2 match comeback. NC just wanted something to get mad about, and stay mad about...

Let it go.

you are the one in here that cant let it go dude...nobody else cares. seriously.

LOL almost without fail, anytime I post on a board that you're a part of, you'll either say something about me, or follow along and laugh at someone else saying something about me, funny or not. (Ronzell is far from funny might I add)

I don't recall ever meeting you, I don't recall ever exchanging words with you until you provoked me. In fact, I had no idea who you were until you started mentioning my name with a kind of annoyance that I couldn't ignore.

You can't act like you're above all this, then take every chance you get to poke at me LOL. You're angry, annoyed, and bothered by me for some reason, and I don't know why. Cuz I have an ego, cuz I get defensive? Either way, big deal dude, I'm not your concern, and I never even talk about you.

You can just stop responding now if you're really going to act like you don't care about things. I'll gladly let it end.

ill just ask you to read what you wrote again...please.

 

[big sleep]

lol stingers just agree that you have a problem with hugs so he can get on with his life

 

[Warhawk]

There's a vid of Eggm comboing d-air -> shine like 4 or 5 times on m2k's marth starting from over 60% cuz of that slow descent

Hmmm I'm going to try to start applying it then.

 

[HugS™]

ill just ask you to read what you wrote again...please.

LOL almost without fail, anytime I post on a board that you're a part of, you'll either say something about me, or follow along and laugh at someone else saying something about me, funny or not. (Ronzell is far from funny might I add)

Oh...I read it. Nice try though dude.

 

[Dark Hart]

I think hugs is just salty about the pokemon theme song

And hugs I'm for coaching and am glad that you can be there for a friend with dat moral support

And I'm from NC...

And I know ronzell...

And you're making me laugh

 

[KirbyKaze]

Lucky won at P4

PP is now significantly better than Lucky and a world class player

Yes, Lucky did something good once vs PP (inb4 2 min CP johns and such) but now PP is clearly way better and the game's changed a ton so...

Who cares?

 

[Blistering Speed]

Because being petty over fabricated drama is way more exciting than being rational.

Also yeah, coaching is stupid and should be banned. Both during and between matches.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Right, I forgot I'm on the internet

 

[Bl@ckChris]

lol KK. that pretty much sums it up.

so who saw that santa barbara tournament yesterday? **** was hype

 

[Armada]

It's not like PP never have someone sitting next to him and coach/support when he is playing so those guys that still seems salty about P4 can go and cry somewhere else.

KK: yeah PP is world class for sure. Have you seen Luckys matches from WGF (a week for something after Apex 2012)?

Lucky seems to still be really good. I really hope he enter something big soon again cause he played really good at that tournament at least (from what I saw).

 

[Little England]

Ya that was the best I've seen him play aside from an older tournament set with Mango.

 

[Armada]

Yeah that maight be true.
What set are you talking about btw, would like to see it

 

[Battlecow]

*I'm aware that having a good coach as a resource is not an in-game skill and will be tested for if we allow coaches - I'm willing to accept this as a reason against in-game coaching if someone can demonstrate or at least argue convincingly that having access to a good coach is a more significant factor on coached melee than having access to high level training partners is on uncoached melee.

Nope. Uneven access to high-level training partners is undesirable but also not something we can do anything about, whereas we can eliminate the out-of-game skill involved in having a good coach easily, regardless of whether or not it's "more significant" than the presence of superior training partners.

 

[FoxLisk]

Nope. Uneven access to high-level training partners is undesirable but also not something we can do anything about, whereas we can eliminate the out-of-game skill involved in having a good coach easily, regardless of whether or not it's "more significant" than the presence of superior training partners.

But what if my regular melee practice partner is a mediocre player and an extremely helpful coach? Then allowing coaching would actually be evening the playing field between me and a player who has access only to a good training partner and not a good coach.

 

[Mahone]

:O


^That's the face i made when i read that post.

Also battlecow, i think the argument is sorta that u are always gonna have an advantage outside of the game, so rather than try to limit it u can embrace it to see higher level play and so on.

 

[SSBMLahti]

I really don't see whether coaching should be viable or not is such a hot, largely debated topic. I really don't find it to be such a big deal.

Coaching can have both positive and negative affects oolmonke

 

[FoxLisk]

:O


^That's the face i made when i read that post.

Also battlecow, i think the argument is sorta that u are always gonna have an advantage outside of the game, so rather than try to limit it u can embrace it to see higher level play and so on.

:O

>mfw

the argument is that there's no clear objective reason why coaching should be (or not be) banned, and if people just dont like it then they should say "i think it's undesirable and i would prefer that it be banned" rather than spouting bull**** that they think supports their point but doesn't.

 

[Battlecow]

Also battlecow, i think the argument is sorta that u are always gonna have an advantage outside of the game, so rather than try to limit it u can embrace it to see higher level play and so on.

That's a good point

Just changed my mind, I'm pro-coaching now. No real reason.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I don't exactly want to get into this here, but isn't the point of tournament to test just those players? For example, when it's not Mango + Peepee vs Armada, it's Mango vs Armada. Sure, they're both still playing, regardless of who is coaching them, but the point is to see if your mind, and your mind alone, is able to deal with everything that tournament throws at you, and overcome it.

The issue I have is mainly coaching during matches. Coaching in between sets or matches is fine (in my opinion) because this is the time for reflecting on what you observed, and reforming/redoing your strategies. Support from a coach/friend in this instance doesn't seem to have any visible issues.