PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Bl@ckChris]

...lol.

grand finals look a lot better than WF.

 

[WestBallz]

I think he is worse against floatys though but Im sure he is working on that.

This statement couldn't be more untrue dude. Where did u and all these other ignorant people get this idea? Cause i lost to a couple peaches in AZ when i had 0 sleep for 3 days? Cause the tourney after that i beat hugs. THE BEST SAMUS PLAYER ON THE PLANET. Isn't samus considered a floaty? Ive also beaten eddy mexico recently. Probably the best luigi right now. Isn't luigi considered a floaty? I pooped on Hbox in some friendlies at DGDTJ. He put me on his crew cause of it. And isn't he considered the best puff? Please people get ur facts straight.

 

[Armada]

Wow sorry man

Had no idea you had that little sleep on that tournament. I guess that + our friendlis/teams matches at Genesis (a while ago I know) at Apex is some of the things why I saw you as worse against Peach at least.

Hugs felt rusty when I played against him at Apex but I don't know if he has practice a lot lately but I doubt he is the best Samus atm tbh. And I also think you are a few levels above him so in my eyes you "should" beat him (if he hasn't improved a lot lately).

Beating Eddy mexico is really good though so props there. And I really don't like to judge friendlis much (know I did with ours a bit) cause with other people it is really hard to say how hard both are trying but the feeling I had from ours is that you are a bit better against fastfallers.

Well prove me wrong and beat Hbox the next tournament

 

[Mahone]

@westballz: Most people are tired at nite, thats not a legit excuse

 

[Mogwai]

Let's just all agree that Mathos is the greatest Falco of all time. I love the buttons the dude pressed. Especially B.

 

[unknown522]

Plup is better than HugS btw.

Not trying to discredit Westballz or anything.

edit: lol Mathos. I remember Raynex lost to him in R1 pools at pound 3, right after beating Forward. Then I had a MM with mathos and 3-stocked him both games, then I was really disappointed that Raynex lost to him.

We were really bad back then. None of the toronto players made it past R2 pools (out of 3 rounds of pools). Kage was the only canadian to be in R3 pools. He was 1 game away from making it to top 32 bracket (he lost to eggz, which was the deciding factor IIRC).

 

[Sinji]

^ got ninjad by Unknown522. Yea plup is the better Samus.

 

[Mogwai]

Plup is better than HugS btw.

Not trying to discredit Westballz or anything.

edit: lol Mathos. I remember Raynex lost to him in R1 pools at pound 3, right after beating Forward. Then I had a MM with mathos and 3-stocked him both games, then I was really disappointed that Raynex lost to him.

We were really bad back then. None of the toronto players made it past R2 pools (out of 3 rounds of pools). Kage was the only canadian to be in R3 pools. He was 1 game away from making it to top 32 bracket (he lost to eggz, which was the deciding factor IIRC).

Everyone was bad back then. And everyone is bad now. Everyone sucks at this game. Or everyone was good back then and everyone's good now. I don't give a ****, I just hate to see a thread randomly tearing into a dude playing their character because he succeeded without hitting the buttons THEY wanted him to press. Anyone hating on Westballz because he's too formulaic needs to pull the stick out of their *** and go win a tournament with s2j in it.

This discussion is tired and petty, let's just put it behind us.

 

[WestBallz]

Alright big tourney this weekend. Norcal/socal is gonna be there. Ill prove u guys all wrong

LMFAO at plup being better than hugs. In ur guys dreams he is.

also armada i didn't have my controller at apex but i guess that doesn't mean much either

 

[stingers]

mogwai you can't possibly be serious.

lets just jerk each other all off some more

 

[Deleted member]

Alright big tourney this weekend. Norcal/socal is gonna be there. Ill prove u guys all wrong

LMFAO at plup being better than hugs. In ur guys dreams he is.

i pretty much agree with everything you said. except plup is better than hugs lol.

that kid is the nuts.

everyone played like **** at apex. no sleep no warmups = random jank all day.

 

[unknown522]

Everyone was bad back then. And everyone is bad now. Everyone sucks at this game. Or everyone was good back then and everyone's good now. I don't give a ****, I just hate to see a thread randomly tearing into a dude playing their character because he succeeded without hitting the buttons THEY wanted him to press. Anyone hating on Westballz because he's too formulaic needs to pull the stick out of their *** and go win a tournament with s2j in it.

This discussion is tired and petty, let's just put it behind us.

lol. I was just telling a story

Alright big tourney this weekend. Norcal/socal is gonna be there. Ill prove u guys all wrong

LMFAO at plup being better than hugs. In ur guys dreams he is.

also armada i didn't have my controller at apex but i guess that doesn't mean much either

maybe HugS was having a bad day when I played him in bracket?

Still, from playing both of them, I would definitely say that plup was better.

Plus he performed better.

Then again, that's just 1 tourney.

 

[Sinji]

Plup is like m2k, Ken was the best marth and now m2k is. Same thing follows with plup, only with samus.

Its pretty obvious, he placed better then him at apex in singles and doubles. I was watching him in person and it didn't look like he was trying in pools. He is a talented boy and I will be glad to see more of him in the future.

 

[WestBallz]

Hugs came out of retirement for apex cause someone offered to pay for his ticket. He hadn't played for months. Hugs was always 2nd best in Socal right under Mango or Ken his whole career. cmon man socal has been and always will be the best region in da world.

 

[unknown522]

what to say?

 

[Mogwai]

mogwai you can't possibly be serious.

lets just jerk each other all off some more

I'm serious.

I'd rather everyone jerked each other off than tried to argue that someone who won a tourney vs. very good competition isn't actually skilled at this game.

 

[leffen]

lol PP is the definition of flowchart falco if anything
he is very basic and is late to implement lots of things other people invented

westballz tries to style and invent **** all the time lol
PP even wrote a ****ing flowchart on how to play Falcons in like 2009 lol (look up the guide)
not saying playing like a flowchart is something that is flameworthy tho, its def not


also westballz you cannot deny that you have not proven yourself fo shizzles against top tier floaties (sheik, peach, marth, puff) COMPARED to how you have proven yourself vs ff
I mean yeah sure you have the mid tiers you have beaten. Fly, hugs and eddy who all play characters that have a pretty damn bad matchup vs falco and the matchups don't really compare to top lvl sheiks/peach/marth/puff players in how they are played lol

ics, samus and luigi are all characters who you can run over more or less while the real "floaties" ppl are talking a quite different set of skills.

just sayin

 

[Erasor.]

Hugs came out of retirement for apex cause someone offered to pay for his ticket. He hadn't played for months. Hugs was always 2nd best in Socal right under Mango or Ken his whole career. cmon man socal has been and always will be the best region in da world.

But you also have to take note that times will change and that the best players of the certain main will lose their title to new comer. Things will not always be the same. Just like how tier list changes over time. Dethroning takes place all the time in fighting games and games in general.

Chu dat was the best Icies then Woobles dethroned him because he simply had better ideas then him.
Same thing happened to Ken when he was the best marth then M2k dethroned him because he had better ideas then him.

The point that i'm making is that players lose their spot one day.

 

[WestBallz]

Alright maybe i haven't proven myself. But ill say this. My whole smash career i played my friend that mained every floaty except for peach. I don't need to prove to anyone cause i already kno i have the matchup knowledge and skill. Ill def prove u guys wrong in the near future. Im actually currently focusing on ic's And a little bit of peach but not so much anymore cause i poop on baka way easier than i used to cause of matchup knowledge/exp.

 

[unknown522]

wrong thread

disregard

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Dr PeePee: Thanks for the comboing advice—that all makes a lot of sense. Still, I’m a bit confused about what do you mean by



How do you specifically push a spacie toward the edge? Are you talking in general terms of gameplay when the spacie is at lowish percent or in terms of continuing a nair/dair→shine→dair→shine sort of setup? Do you mean you use reverse dair or specifically try to hit with the part of the shine that will send them closest to the edge?

Push them to the edge with Nairs/Fairs when comboing at lower percents so at higher ones they will be by the edge, which is better for you.

Hitting with certain parts of the shine is also helping for pushing someone one way or keeping them in place.

you guys are all phaggots

give credit where credit is due westballz is a great player, beat hax in POOLS at apex


regarding my recent sets, i end up making some really bad mistakes, tbh each mistake really cost me and they are extremely avoidable. stuff like trying to f-smash a falco up-b --> dying

also i got worse at tech chasing falcoes literally trained only against fox for manifest so i can **** the top foxes (ended up facing 0 at actual tourney)

most of the matches could've went either way. 1 less big mistake (big cuz u get ***** for a 'tiny' error). But the fact that he ***** me for them is good, i just need to not be complacent and work on getting better

===

westballz is very good, me and lovage has been saying for a year or so and its a shame that they really ****ed up the northwest manifest vids because now its past the time of hype for the vids when he played extremely well vs everyone. hes part of socals **** crew and can't think of another falco besides pp who can compare

==

overall, pretty disappointed in westballz hate, i thought people would like our sets cuz some sick stuff happened but instead people just hate on westballz or discredit him

==

rewatched last match of grand finals and i shoulda beat him got GHEYed at the end

please tech chase regrab

lol PP is the definition of flowchart falco if anything
he is very basic and is late to implement lots of things other people invented

westballz tries to style and invent **** all the time lol
PP even wrote a ****ing flowchart on how to play Falcons in like 2009 lol (look up the guide)
not saying playing like a flowchart is something that is flameworthy tho, its def not


also westballz you cannot deny that you have not proven yourself fo shizzles against top tier floaties (sheik, peach, marth, puff) COMPARED to how you have proven yourself vs ff
I mean yeah sure you have the mid tiers you have beaten. Fly, hugs and eddy who all play characters that have a pretty damn bad matchup vs falco and the matchups don't really compare to top lvl sheiks/peach/marth/puff players in how they are played lol

ics, samus and luigi are all characters who you can run over more or less while the real "floaties" ppl are talking a quite different set of skills.

just sayin

I get a lot of hate for how I play.

 

[Bones0]

I get a lot of hate for how I play.

Tell that to Hbox. lol

 

[knightpraetor]

pp and hbox are both pretty formulaic... variation should only occur when there are several mixups of near equal risk/reward (why are marth's mixups never of equal risk/reward..???)

and should overlay the standard correct stuff in the matchup.

I hate when people on the marth boards constantly go off about fancy combos and random suboptimal pressures that pay off for one stock and then lose them 3 in the marth critique thread...the only thing that goes through my head is " that was suboptimal....that was suboptimal...that was stupid...etc etc.

and if they play correctly I don't think they are "repetitive," i think they are "consistent."

 

[choknater]

formulaic is fine. top level in 2012 seems to be about redefining and mastering the neutral games.

i think once more people are aware of what the matchups REALLY look like "on paper" then we'll see more mindgames and innovation to deviate from that. but hbox and pp are showing that a strong neutral game will allow the flowchart to win until people fully understand it.

 

[Bones0]

I think the neutral metagame has become a lot less formulaic, honestly. Falco used to be able to get away with laser, laser, SHFFL, but that **** doesn't work at all anymore. I can remember Ken doing dash away, WD back in, fsmash multiple times a match and hitting with it. These days it seems like you need so many more tricks, baits, feints, specific spacings, etc. just to get that first hit because everyone's seen everything and know what to look for.

 

[choknater]

the formulas have just become more complex!!!

they are now FORMULAE

i love testing falco's laser spacing with ic's. i like to see how good their neutral game is by spamming dash attacks and wd fsmash. if they figure that out, i start spamming ice blocks. usually after 1 or 2 stocks i'm aware of their habits and how much they know about the matchup. shoutouts to the metagame, i love melee

as far as i know right now, i will only lose to zhu and hmw's falcos in cali. dp if he is on point.

oh and maybe wes and mango but i haven't played them yet

 

[Armada]

PP: I also get hate for my style kinda often
If you have fun don't care.

WestBallz: Im glad to hear you wanna prove people wrong. Just take it a bit easier. Even if someone say you are worse against X then Y dosen't mean you are bad against it

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

formulaic is fine. top level in 2012 seems to be about redefining and mastering the neutral games.

i think once more people are aware of what the matchups REALLY look like "on paper" then we'll see more mindgames and innovation to deviate from that. but hbox and pp are showing that a strong neutral game will allow the flowchart to win until people fully understand it.

asdfasasfd

Hugs came out of retirement for apex cause someone offered to pay for his ticket. He hadn't played for months. Hugs was always 2nd best in Socal right under Mango or Ken his whole career. cmon man socal has been and always will be the best region in da world.

i think plup is better than hugo too, but that's not really important. socal is def the best region

PP: I also get hate for my style kinda often
If you have fun don't care.

WestBallz: Im glad to hear you wanna prove people wrong. Just take it a bit easier. Even if someone say you are worse against X then Y dosen't mean you are bad against it

I know very well you're capable of ridiculous things, so I don't hate you for doing what you need to do.

But that ylink stuff man, WTFFFFFFFFFFFF >(




and agree with all the neutral game talk. to win a tournament these days means to have the best neutral game.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think if my combos ended in fairs instead of up smashes, I would get a lot of hate.

I'm pretty fraudulent.

 

[Battlecow]

WTF happened to playing to win? I can see the point behind saying that wes's style against s2j wouldn't work consistently or work against most good players, but you guys aren't even saying that, you're just straight-up saying that even though it gets results it's somehow worse than other styles. Scrub mentalities ITT.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

well, if stingers was trolling, he did a hell of a job...

 

[Armada]

Zhu: Haha I know.
I don't lite to play Y link either. Okay I don't hate it cause when it happens twice a year I actuall think it is okay to play it because of the feeling of every hit means so much.

But if I could I would not use him but I have to. NO ONE is playing puff pretty much so I have not a better choice =/

 

[Dr Peepee]

pp and hbox are both pretty formulaic... variation should only occur when there are several mixups of near equal risk/reward (why are marth's mixups never of equal risk/reward..???)

and should overlay the standard correct stuff in the matchup.

I hate when people on the marth boards constantly go off about fancy combos and random suboptimal pressures that pay off for one stock and then lose them 3 in the marth critique thread...the only thing that goes through my head is " that was suboptimal....that was suboptimal...that was stupid...etc etc.

and if they play correctly I don't think they are "repetitive," i think they are "consistent."

Throw/knock someone into the air with Marth and be good at juggling/punishing landings. Very little risk and lots of damage.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

WTF happened to playing to win? I can see the point behind saying that wes's style against s2j wouldn't work consistently or work against most good players, but you guys aren't even saying that, you're just straight-up saying that even though it gets results it's somehow worse than other styles. Scrub mentalities ITT.

The only reason why I put so much time into competitive smash was because my idea of fun coincided with winning (these two are not necessarily the same all the time). If that makes me a scrub I'm perfectly fine with that, I'm sure many feel the same way (probably not the best thing in the world though lol).

Zhu: Haha I know.
I don't lite to play Y link either. Okay I don't hate it cause when it happens twice a year I actuall think it is okay to play it because of the feeling of every hit means so much.

But if I could I would not use him but I have to. NO ONE is playing puff pretty much so I have not a better choice =/

I just want to see more of that Peach

 

[Armada]

Yeah and you will still see my Peach against everyone not named Hbox
Sorry but I find that MU to hard and when I can't even practice it with someone it becomes 10 times harder.

 

[wezai]

Yeah and you will still see my Peach against everyone not named Hbox
Sorry but I find that MU to hard and when I can't even practice it with someone it becomes 10 times harder.

Your Peach is so awesome and you are currently the best player out there IMO, we can't blame you for using YL against Hbox. Puff can really become a nuisance sometimes.

Oh, and because of you, my brother started playing Peach. The worst part is that he is getting good with her, now my *** is sore because it's getting too much beaten. At least I get to practice that MU. >.<

 

[Armada]

Thanks =)
Haha that sounds cool.

 

[Strong Badam]

Let's just all agree that Mathos is the greatest Falco of all time. I love the buttons the dude pressed. Especially B.

those FC crew battles man

 

[Sinji]

Yeah and you will still see my Peach against everyone not named Hbox
Sorry but I find that MU to hard and when I can't even practice it with someone it becomes 10 times harder.

I understand you. I use toon link in project M against Lucario and the match up is highly in Toon links favor.

Sometimes in smash, its not all about rush down with nair all of the time. Sometimes you have to figure out a puzzle before reaching the opponent. The psychology and the brains behind the game is fascinating at times.

 

[Wake]

I understand, Armada. That MU is such a joke. I'm still gonna do it with Peach though.