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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

Mahone

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
Bones0 said:
DJ will take down Mahone's Falco. $5 MM.
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Naw, i actually believe that, that dude is too good

Winston said:
I mean I can probably win with Marth, or Falcon, or maybe Mario... just not Fox apparently
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Naw, if i go mr.serioustryhard, you can't beat my falco with anyone, especially now that i learned so much last saturday from pp... he sat there and taught me straight falco stuff for like 4 hours... so its pretty much ggs

Also, my fox is better than my falco now, so everyone mediocre in Maryland can now add that to the list of characters i can beat them with
 
V

V

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
963
Is being able to waveshine on platforms a necessary skill? I was practicing it today and you have to barely press down in order to not platform drop, to the point that I have to consciously think about it, which I don't want to do. Is it necessary to be able to do this?
 
unknown522

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Vs Sheik info dump?

vs Sheik stuff for moose.

shield stuff vs sheik

more shield stuff

the first post I originally made for zhu a couple of months ago. I'll see if I can find my other big posts (Sadly, I deleted my PM to PP for Pound 5, cuz I ran out of inbox space back then).

edit: I just read some stuff from JPOBS around that time. It's not bad


I edited one of the posts recently because there were some spelling errors and missed bracket signs, and some crap like that. I don't think I corrected all the errors, but whatever.
 
stingers

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
no, as far as I know every falco player has decided to not go to zenith in order to make a more enjoyable tournament experience for everyone else.

but forreal...all the other non-falco players who lurk here...how awesome would that be? omg
 
Squirt

Squirt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
105
Location
Mint Hill North Carolina
V said:
Is being able to waveshine on platforms a necessary skill? I was practicing it today and you have to barely press down in order to not platform drop, to the point that I have to consciously think about it, which I don't want to do. Is it necessary to be able to do this?
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I'd say yes it is. Any sort of WDing should be like SHFFLing. Bread and butter of the game. Don't be discouraged though it took me months before it started to click esp since I focused on most of the other ATs. It's probably hard to hear but really: just keep practicing it over and over and you'll get it.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
waveshining onto them is really useful. it's even cooler once you can waveshine off of them. the double jump usually puts you in a better position to continue a combo onto the top platform than his other options. it feels like some things can only be linked using that.
 
stabbedbyanipple

stabbedbyanipple

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Irvine, SoCal
Peach questions

#1, So when you have Peach stuck by the ledge, what are some good ways to hit her if she tries to float to get out?

#2, Same question but when she has center stage instead of you.

I've been no good vs peach since before apex haha, I've got a few ideas about what to do in these situations but would like to hear opinions from people who are better at the matchup.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
The product of putting the brains of a smart but technologically out of date Marth into the body of a space animal ----> smart space animal that obviously knows what he's doing but doesn't have the tech skill or Falco experience to do normal combos / edgeguards consistently (also recovers like Shiz, manly illusions straight into them)

So basically your Falco looks like your Marth :D

Oh you can apparently shorten your illusion
You weren't doing that vs his Fox

If you want tips about making your Falco look more like a Falco, learn how to fastfall properly and stuff haha
Getting the standard combos down would obvious help with racking up the damage ... always remember that shine has 10 years of hitstun and Dairing them onto a platform -> easy techchase is one of the best ways to continue combos long after they normally would end

Don't be afraid to use up-b if they look committed to an onstage edgeguard, you can usually mix it up between at least 2 angles and you can vary where you start it

Lasering Fox up-b is really good, runoff DJ Dair is really good vs long illusions, timing ledgehop Bair better is really important because you missed a few easy ones

Also DI away from Marth, getting Ken combo'd these days is kinda embarrassing :lick:

In reality you should just never change it though
Too fun/goofy to watch
 
Mahone

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
stabbedbyanipple said:
Peach questions

#1, So when you have Peach stuck by the ledge, what are some good ways to hit her if she tries to float to get out?

#2, Same question but when she has center stage instead of you.

I've been no good vs peach since before apex haha, I've got a few ideas about what to do in these situations but would like to hear opinions from people who are better at the matchup.
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I will reveal my falco secrets...

upwards angled ftilt is **** for hitting peach out of her float, i've tested it and its amazing...

it doesn't do much combo-wise, but psychologically its devastating... plus its safe i guess
 
Niko45

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
Wenbobular said:
The product of putting the brains of a smart but technologically out of date Marth into the body of a space animal ----> smart space animal that obviously knows what he's doing but doesn't have the tech skill or Falco experience to do normal combos / edgeguards consistently (also recovers like Shiz, manly illusions straight into them)

So basically your Falco looks like your Marth :D

Oh you can apparently shorten your illusion
You weren't doing that vs his Fox

If you want tips about making your Falco look more like a Falco, learn how to fastfall properly and stuff haha
Getting the standard combos down would obvious help with racking up the damage ... always remember that shine has 10 years of hitstun and Dairing them onto a platform -> easy techchase is one of the best ways to continue combos long after they normally would end

Don't be afraid to use up-b if they look committed to an onstage edgeguard, you can usually mix it up between at least 2 angles and you can vary where you start it

Lasering Fox up-b is really good, runoff DJ Dair is really good vs long illusions, timing ledgehop Bair better is really important because you missed a few easy ones

Also DI away from Marth, getting Ken combo'd these days is kinda embarrassing :lick:

In reality you should just never change it though
Too fun/goofy to watch
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Thx, good advice yea I often just like bair people instead of dairing down into platform tech chase its true.

Also if getting ken combo'd is so embarrassing I need to make a bigger deal about it when I do it to people. Gonna work on my endzone dances.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Hahaha

I was being kinda serious though, Marth doesn't have a scary aerial finisher so you shouldn't feel the need to DI in unless they're mixing up Uairs by the ledge

Winston always gripes that Marths don't mix up Uair / Fair enough to mess with people's DI, but a lot of people just DI in because they're wimps ... if you see that all the Marth does is Fair just DI da fuq away and the best they can do is double Fair or something crappy

Just remember to survival DI the last Fair in so you don't just straight up die to a Fair

I guess what I really meant was don't fall for the really obvious Ken combo setups because they're just like ... pretty mad obvious
At least force the Marth to do something creative / super cheap to get a spike instead of just DJ Fair -> spike the bad DI --> do it a few times and get the best Marth combo video ever :awesome:

I mean I think it only happened once to you but I think it's something to keep in mind, not just vs Marth but everybody ... DIing neutral or away is mad good and being wimpy about DI is how you wind up in combo videos
 
oukd

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
from the opposite location!

ultimately falco dittos will become only this in 2024
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
Niko45 said:
Thx, good advice yea I often just like bair people instead of dairing down into platform tech chase its true.

Also if getting ken combo'd is so embarrassing I need to make a bigger deal about it when I do it to people. Gonna work on my endzone dances.
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yeah when i read that, i just laughed to myself and wondered what kind of ****ty marths wenbo plays against

"DIing neutral or away is mad good and being wimpy about DI is how you wind up in combo videos"

correction, getting surprised or caught trying to take another action when the opponent allowed you those 4 frames to think you could get out is what gets you in combo videos.

sure, you can just choose not to jump away or try to run away or take any actions when you're at a disadvantage..but stationary opponents are pretty easy to hit even if they do have perfect DI.

it just reminds me of that one time i chose to stand still against mahone's falco and then DI'd 5 hits in a row perfectly, including smash DIing 3 of htem....obviously we should all just stand still so we don't ever get comboed except with "legit" combos.

also on a random side note: DI neutral is the bomdaggity....everytime I "miss" a DI, I think to myself, "If only I had DId neutral then I would have been safe." Letting go of the stick, the hardest tech skill in smash
 
Winston

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
knightpraetor said:
yeah when i read that, i just laughed to myself and wondered what kind of ****ty marths wenbo plays against
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=( =( =( ....

"DIing neutral or away is mad good and being wimpy about DI is how you wind up in combo videos"

correction, getting surprised or caught trying to take another action when the opponent allowed you those 4 frames to think you could get out is what gets you in combo videos.

(...)

also on a random side note: DI neutral is the bomdaggity....everytime I "miss" a DI, I think to myself, "If only I had DId neutral then I would have been safe." Letting go of the stick, the hardest tech skill in smash
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This was kind of weird... first you're like "lol that's wrong" and then your random side note largely agrees with him (that neutral DI is often really good).

Your point about allowing them slight windows while comboing is interesting though, do you actually go for that a lot even when you have the option to try and keep them in continuous hitstun/techchases?
 
S

S0FT

Smash Ace
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
956
Location
Planet Earth
"Yeah, general advice is the most helpful, plus it's easier than typing out 10 million time stamps for scenarios I either realize what I did wrong or messed up tech skill or something. Here's some actual tournament matches if anyone wants to critique. :p

WBR2: Bones (Falco) vs. Milkman (Fox)

LBR3: Bones (Falco/Fox) vs. Dkuo (Pikachu)

LBR4: Bones (Red Falco) vs. JU4N (Green Falco)

LBR5: Bones (Falco) vs. Vist (Luigi)

Pride Match: Bones (Falco) vs. Epsilon (Peach)"

Alright bones this is my first time doing this, but since no one else has yet I am going to give it a shot. I am going to be kind of general but if you want me to be more specific let me know.

First match, first game. Two huge mistakes here:

Lasering to close to fox - You did this a lot the first match. The first stock was a good example of why it is so bad to laser that close to fox, it put you in a really bad situation right away, and then you did it again and died.

Never grabbing - I don't know if you have a lot of previous history with milkman, but his response to your aerial and laser approaches was to shield like 90% of the time, if not more. If he is not going to mix up his responses to your approaches, it is a pretty big mistake to not laser-grab or empty short hop - grab every single time.

First match, second game. I won't say to much about your edge guarding because it was pretty obvious you were messing up on your tech skill, so I don't know how your edge guard game is in general. One thing to consider, however, is when he is recovering and falls bellow the edge out toward the side and takes that lower angle like he did once the first match and I think two times this match, is that shine turnaround - dair from the ledge covers pretty much all the possible angles he can take from that position. Obviously the missed edge guards were a pretty big factor this match, and putting him in bad positions (him off stage recovering, or continuously pressuring him to the side of the stage) and then letting him get away, was a pretty common theme this match.

Second match, Games 1 and 3. Well it looks like you weren't focused on playing optimally this set, for obvious reasons. So I will only say then it has been four matches and I am pretty sure you have not gotten a single edge guard while hanging on the edge, and you are on the edge like 85% of the time they are recovering. Tbh it looks like you need to start fresh with your edge guard game, because it just looks like you are covering 1 option at best from the edge. Hopefully you will prove me wrong in these future matches.

Third match, Game 1:

YES! Ten seconds in and you finally get an edge hog. This marks the first "edge guard" from the edge, and even though it is basic, it's a start. I'm pretty pumped going into this match.

You got in this situation a few times in the second match with milkman and here again at 2:38 vs J4un. You are in the better position but are to far away to approach safely with an aerial, but you either aerial anyway and lose the advantage or do nothing and let them get away. If you short hop laser in these situation to get a little closer, you will maintain your advantage and then have so many more options.

Ok so the video freaks out the rest of the set, so Ill just go onto the next match.

Fourth match, Game 1:

Alright so definitely your best match so far! A big thing is in the beginning you were doing a lot of unsafe aerials, but you seemed to adapt and started lasering more which was good, but you would pin him toward the right side of the stage, he would be stuck in shield, and you would be steadily approaching with lasers and then instead of punishing him you just jumped back and kept lasering. The last stock it looks like you finally stepped it up and attacked with a safe aerial after putting him in a bad position with your lasers and it resulted in a kill. You need more stocks like that. Once you put them in a bad situation, finish them off!

Game 2: This is kind of the opposite of your very first match with milk man. Vist kept pressuring you to the side and just like milk man you started shielding to much and way more then anything else. But unlike in your match with milkman, vist was mixing in a lot more grabs, and was able to punish you a lot more successfully.

Game 3: Alright almost done with this critique. 8:24 you have got him onto a platform shielding, a really bad situation... and yet instead of punishing him you go back to the center of the stage and start dash dancing... it seems like you wanted to reset the match to a neutral position (where vist was winning those the majority of time the second match). It just seems that in general you aren't really sure when to attack and when not to. I think you really need to analyze your game and see why you can not successfully convert *putting your opponents in a negative position* into a kill.
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Damn, thanks a lot! I definitely agree about my edgeguarding. It's something I haven't been giving enough attention since I am largely preoccupied with on-stage stuff. I'll have to work on that specifically today to make sure I can consistently finish stocks. I also tend to not look at general stage positioning as either being in my favor or not, so I will definitely become more aware of when they are "trapped" and when I can push an offensive. Thanks again, especially right before Zenith, this could very well help push me through to my goal of getting to R2 pools. ^_^
 
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