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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

Bones0

Bones0

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Mahone

Mahone

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Bones0 said:
That's not a mistake. I wasn't being sarcastic. I really do want Mahone to explain why it isn't unwinnable for Peach. >_>
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Float back fair, turnips... Bait ****. Camp. Win.

Also, just to be clear i do thinks its puff favor but saying its the worst matchup of the high tiers is crazy

:phone:
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

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Are you super scared of Jiggs or something because I feel like you're spending half the match running as fast as you can away -> turnaround laser until you feel like you have better position

Not that I ever play this matchup but I think you're just giving Jiggs way too much of a breather when you do that

Learn how to ledgedash so Jiggs doesn't just spam the **** out of Bair and cover all your options when you don't have ledgehop double laser ez mode master race ledge recovery (massive exaggeration and I don't even think I've seen a LHDL yet but you should learn to ledgedash anyways)

I don't understand the FoD counterpick (would've thought DL or something if you want to shoot lasers, which you seem to like doing a lot) but it was really funny when you just jumped off and he killed you :bee: (wow Dair kill off the top <____<)

Game 5 was heartbreaking yet hilarious
I don't understand why you go for upair at like 30 when you get a shine, you could've Daired him onto the top platform to techchase at some point but Uair instead why????

I think the major notes are - learn how to get off the ledge better, and get in there and FIGHT when you have the advantage
And not just jumping off randomly and dying at 10

I think you had the most success with getting Jiggs higher in the air then Bairing from below ... whether you use platform tricks to get Jiggs to chase you or whatever I think that's how you got most of your random hits

Anyways I'm not a Falco main so I could just be spouting BS wait for the all knowing BONES to critique maybe :laugh:
 
Bones0

Bones0

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Haven't watched it yet, will tomorrow, but I can say you should always go for a shine off the top vs. Jiggs. You can kill her with a shine-DJ-shine from the bottom of YS at 3%. :troll:
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

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Man Bones I still think you can kill Marth off the top of Battlefield with bad DI at like 30 with Dair Shine FH shine DJ shine ~_~

I certainly did it to Wenz's Doc at one point I felt so deliciously cheap
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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Mogwai said:
Ok this one has always bothered me. Who the **** actually feels like enough of an expert on the Pichu vs. ICs matchup to conclusively say, well, ****ing anything about the matchup? Seriously, looking at matchup charts, this one being like 100-0 ICs or w/e and seeing Kirby as not getting totally butt****ed by Sheik were always the two that bothered me the most.
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this post realy confused me. Kirby has a lot better matchup vs sheik than m2, bowser, and g&w at least in my opinion....what do those characters have that kirby does not....and kirby has a decent bair along with the ability to crouch most of sheik's aerials spacing bair you just come in after them or you use your own bair...and able to Crouch sheik's grab and cc her dash attack.....i mean, don't get me wrong...

kirby is still garbage...but why are you listing this as if it's one of his worse matchups...as bottom vs top tiers go, it's one of the better ones...now marth vs kirby..that is a stacked matchup....you literally have to be maintaining better spacing with your dashes and wavedashes to compete since marth can throw out relatively risk free dtilts and still has all the spacing tools he normally has..

but yeah i can't imagine a matchup more stacked than sheik bowser...if that isn't unwinnable i don't know what is....

and by unwinnable, we define this as meaning unwinnable at the top levels...the reality is if your spacing is better you just win with most characters..i beat plenty of fox mains that are worse than me...without even touching my fox these days or having any matchup knowledge just because my spacing and coverage of my moves is better......and i don't believe that a bowser will win one out of 100 games against m2k's sheik if there's money on the line...regardless of whether someone really good like armada spent 3 months training their bowser

also lol @ kirbykaze...

figures the sheik main would tease poor link for being bad....us marth mains don't think he's nearly as bad..though marth still has the advantage

i remember going from getting 3 stocked by link to 3 stocking him in 5 sec....switch to sheik...cg
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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knightpraetor said:
also lol @ kirbykaze...

figures the sheik main would tease poor link for being bad....us marth mains don't think he's nearly as bad..though marth still has the advantage

i remember going from getting 3 stocked by link to 3 stocking him in 5 sec....switch to sheik...cg
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you are gay


@ general comments on Kirbs vs Sheik

Kirby Sheik is either okay or absolutely atrocious depending on whether or not the Sheik knows a few things

if they don't know those things, then it's a pretty reasonable MU (that Sheik wins, of course, but it's not horrific ****)

if they know those few things, then it's an absolutely ghastly MU and Kirbs is in really hot water

people thought it was okay because of the Ken vs Isai friendlies and because those two started a rumour about how it's a pretty close MU and it stuck (iirc)



Turnips don't do a god damn thing vs Puff
 
Wake

Wake

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Thank you Based Mimi.
ShroudedOne said:
*looks back over posts*

Somehow, I thought Mahone was one of the people who were disagreeing with you. Don't know how I missed that. Sorry. >.>

Peach probably has to play at her ultimate campiest to beat Puff, imo. Like, further than Pink Shinobi.
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She might. I'm not sure yet. Maybe Peach just has to play completely different than what Peach players are doing now. I still am not willing to say the MU is actually that bad. Sheik still sucks for me :p I've never played a Puff like Hbox's before though...

You might as well throw turnips at Puff and hope you get lucky with stitches and other neat stuff.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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KirbyKaze said:
you are gay


@ general comments on Kirbs vs Sheik

Kirby Sheik is either okay or absolutely atrocious depending on whether or not the Sheik knows a few things

if they don't know those things, then it's a pretty reasonable MU (that Sheik wins, of course, but it's not horrific ****)

if they know those few things, then it's an absolutely ghastly MU and Kirbs is in really hot water

people thought it was okay because of the Ken vs Isai friendlies and because those two started a rumour about how it's a pretty close MU and it stuck (iirc)



Turnips don't do a god damn thing vs Puff
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wondering what things the sheik needs to know against kirby..my strat would be..don't approach and just needle since kirby like all the bottom tiers sucks at approaching or just bair to outspace him, but in reality it's kirby so you should just approach and spam moves on him...wouldn't you feel embarrassed if you had to play for real against a kirby?

or this that whole sirlin play to win mentality??

also, i swear i remember some sets of some kirby beating a top falcon? i seem to remember people thinking kirby vs falcon was the best of kirby's matchups vs top tiers because of these..
 
Mogwai

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
kirby vs. falcon is better than kirby vs. sheik from what I've seen and that's just cause kirby has decent hitbox matchups on Falcon's aerials with his utilt and bair.

I honestly don't see what Kirby can do vs. Sheik if she just short hops all match and fairs whenever he tries to do anything.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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aka camps like hell...

though i don't see why falcon can't do it with just dashdancing...are those bair/fair approaches that scary with kirby....lol
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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Mogwai said:
kirby vs. falcon is better than kirby vs. sheik from what I've seen and that's just cause kirby has decent hitbox matchups on Falcon's aerials with his utilt and bair.

I honestly don't see what Kirby can do vs. Sheik if she just short hops all match and fairs whenever he tries to do anything.
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TBH Falcon's massive, massive advantage in movement and positioning (and comparable priority) make most of that priority stuff a non-issue. Also, death grabs. I'm not sure how the two stack up in terms of difficulty but Falcon's always felt pretty bad... just for different reasons. Mostly because of how efficiently he kills Kirby and because his positioning game makes up for whatever priority deficiencies he might have.

Sheik just kind of walls him out for a while and kills him slowly.
 
TheCrimsonBlur

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eh kirby's roll is pretty good and sheiks jump is rather high. Even if Sheik autocancels the fair i bet a roll->duck for kirby behind sheik could be timed right to beat that strategy...

I'm doing some hard theorybro-ing so what do i know tho lol.
 
G

genkaku

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I lose trades and stuff all the time because even though my spacing is good I don't really understand priority. It's got to be my weakest area by a large margin just 'cause I keep putting off thinking about it. Um, is there any general or specific falco priority stuff to know? I don't know any of it 'cause I've been ignoring it so far 'cause I think it's dumb.
 
Niko45

Niko45

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I'd imagine (good) characters that can grab kirby's duck would do better than characters that can't since that's a pretty powerful tool.

Question tho - I was just messing around with grabbing a ducking kirby and I noticed that marth and sheik can standing grab a kirby after spamming it a few times. With sheik I was whiffing maybe 5 in a row and then suddenly the 6th one connects. Anyone know why this is? Marth was a little more frequent, like 1/4. It seems like kirby bobs up and down very slightly while ducking so maybe the hurtbox is moving and just barely comes into the grab range at some points. CF was unable to grab ever, btw.
 
Meneks

Meneks

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^^In that case how about the falco/marth matchup, what should the priority be when facing a marth (Implying that going against a falcon would mean I would focus on a different type of move as opposed to facing ice climbers or something)


Suggestions for getting out of chain grabs/suggestions on getting away from above marth.

Stages that work best in falcos favor against marth?

I shouldve had this match up down years ago lol
 
Bones0

Bones0

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Meneks said:
^^In that case how about the falco/marth matchup, what should the priority be when facing a marth (Implying that going against a falcon would mean I would focus on a different type of move as opposed to facing ice climbers or something)


Suggestions for getting out of chain grabs/suggestions on getting away from above marth.

Stages that work best in falcos favor against marth?

I shouldve had this match up down years ago lol
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http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=312782
 
L__

L__

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does anyone know why you fall from stuff you normally wouldn't when charging a smash attack?

e.g. marth falling from shine when charging fsmash
 
D

Deleted member

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...kevin i know the dark arts of marth are calling out to you.



you can't ignore them forever.
 
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