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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
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Aug 31, 2005
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Jarrettsville, MD
I'm sure uair comes out fast enough to hit them when they are pressuring you on platforms. You could definitely just shield drop a nair out of a dash or something when they expect you to run all the way off or are waiting for you to down smash.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
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BRoomer
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26,560
mers said:
Random mostly pointless question:

How safe would perfect repeated platform canceled bairs be on shield? Obviously it's difficult and would push them away anyhow, but you could definitely do two or three of them before that happened.
Click to expand...
without testing, it's ~-7 if done perfectly. multishine is like -3 or so for reference.
though if your bair is staled a bit you probably won't be able to platform cancel it (you have to still be able to land on the platform by frame 10 after the drop, most of which happens through hitlag during platform cancels).

Pi: I might be able to calculate those if I do a decent amount of testing. Depends on how lazy I am. Additionally, lots of those minimums are wrong... damage can be decimal and fully staled is *.55 so jab (4% fresh) would do 2.2% fully staled.
 
Pi

Pi

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i knew it was decimal but i basically just did these w/ training mode & a notebook lol
i stopped because of a lack of interest in the project, and of me discovering too many variables and not wanting to half-*** something

at the very least it's a good rough estimate of when u can CC ish w/ samus, but that rough estimate took me like a long time to get Zzz

any chance there's a formula for CCing? that'd be nice.
 
Bones0

Bones0

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Messages
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Jarrettsville, MD
Values like that always seem really useful, but I can't help but think I would never be able to apply them in game. I've been judging on pure instinct whether or not I can crouch cancel stuff for years, so I feel like I'm good enough at it that trying to remember percents would only clutter my thinking.

Of course, I can't resist myself, so I've actually been compiling a bunch of stuff for kill percents of different moves. I've only actually done the percentages for double shining people off the top of YS (at all 3 heights), but hopefully I will also get around to when uair kills sooner than a second shine, usmash, and dtilt. Of course they are based off of training mode CPUs who aren't DIing, so people may live longer, but I think it would at least be useful to be able to go into a match thinking things like "okay, as soon as I see Jiggs at x%, I can usmash her and she will die if she doesn't DI it."
 
Bones0

Bones0

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Tee ay eye said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhebHVZC67Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maKOaOh2ssY

people should critique my falco
Click to expand...
I only watched the first vid so far.

- You keep spot dodging as soon as he jumps. Just shield grab him or shine OoS if he crosses you up. If you're worried about tomahawk grabs, just roll (Marth's bair sucks at covering cross up rolls).

- Don't attack from the ledge if Marth is close by. He has too much **** that will trade or just straight up beat you (counter, dtilt under lasers, take lasers and utilt/ftilt, etc.). Ledge dash or LH back side B through him tend to be much safer.

- Don't jab Marth when he's shielding or is at a low % and can CC grab.

- Uthrow >>> fthrow, especially good when he's at kill %, just uthrow uair/bair or even dair if he's over the ledge. You could have grabbed more in general. It's really scary to get grabbed over and over by Falco because people don't want to not shield and end up eating an 80% pillar combo so just spam that ****. Free damage.
 
CK Momentum

CK Momentum

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Joined
Oct 22, 2011
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196
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Hi, could a good falco player please critique my tournament set from the last HOG? Particularly, if people are willing to drop advice about ledgeguarding with falco, since i think a weakness in that department really cost me the set. I have been going to tournaments for roughly 1.5 or 2 years now, and I'm really looking to improve.

Thanks for your help. I am the default color, and bolt is the green one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnGgxSogxJs&feature=BFa&list=FL1zI0zyyk_SudFOnCZ0YOFA&lf=mh_lolz
 
TheZhuKeeper

TheZhuKeeper

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Joined
Jul 2, 2007
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Philadelphia, PA
Moooose said:
so i did a triple dair...does anyone know if it actually combos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oS2D9pksCI&feature=feedu#t=0m36s
it looks like it does o_o
Click to expand...
Frame wise maybe Samus can do something, but it could have some practical uses. I've gotten those on Hugs a few times if that means anything. I think it works if Samus tries to cc, so the extra stun makes it easier for you to dair again.

I always thought you were a big black dude. Thumbs up for being Asian, there's only a few of us.
 
Moooose

Moooose

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TheZhuKeeper said:
Frame wise maybe Samus can do something, but it could have some practical uses. I've gotten those on Hugs a few times if that means anything. I think it works if Samus tries to cc, so the extra stun makes it easier for you to dair again.

I always thought you were a big black dude. Thumbs up for being Asian, there's only a few of us.
Click to expand...
what are you talking about i am a large african american man.
 
crush

crush

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CK Momentum said:
Hi, could a good falco player please critique my tournament set from the last HOG? Particularly, if people are willing to drop advice about ledgeguarding with falco, since i think a weakness in that department really cost me the set. I have been going to tournaments for roughly 1.5 or 2 years now, and I'm really looking to improve.

Thanks for your help. I am the default color, and bolt is the green one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnGgxSogxJs&feature=BFa&list=FL1zI0zyyk_SudFOnCZ0YOFA&lf=mh_lolz
Click to expand...
Use lasers to get them below the stage and then they're dead basically. Also strong bad I almost beat this guys falco with my DK. Are u proud of me?

:phone:
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
SEE ME SON.

:ganondorf:

your body is not ready.

edit: only if you mm my falco.

YEAH I SAID IT. BEEN LURKIN THESE THREADS MY BIRD IS SICK.

also, this post is a lie.
 
L__

L__

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flopmerica
I'll give it a go

3:25 - be wary of where you laser and where they are because if you commit to a high laser it's not a difficult thing to maneuver around

3:26 - there wasn't any gain to have been made from dair'ing as he was running away. sometimes doing nothing and re-spacing yourself at that position would have been fine too.

4:16 - you have a tendency to jump over him and it's becoming apparent to him/it was easy for him to react to.

4:17 - you've fallen down with aerials pretty often in this match. not the best idea imo.

4:24 - once again, jumping in a spot that doesn't benefit you and can easily be countered.

5:44 - this is again one of those areas where reacting to your approaches from above are easily reacted to and should be avoided in the future imo.

6:25 - this was one of those moments where I've seen falcos commit when it wasn't necessary. after you saw the roll you should have taken a second to re-evaluate the situation and took a different approach to trying to hit him vs. committing to a dash attack.

6:40 - stop coming down with aerials at times that are easy to react to

7:07 - YOU'RE KILLIN' ME SMALLS

--

if the notes were fine i'll give more otherwise nevermind lmao

basically from that match on stadium the sparknotes of what I wanna tell you is to focus on where you're placing your lasers and to basically stop falling with aerials all the time. sometimes you can take advantage of nearby platforms if they aren't in position to react to (or they can react but they aren't in reach of the position) just airdodging onto the platforms for safety.
 
T

tarheeljks

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Joined
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land of the free
Moooose said:
the falco critique thread is gone? well someone teach me how to fox =(. i lost to lovage and tink's fox at the big house. it used to be my best matchup but i havent played any good foxes lately and i feel like i just got overwhelmed sometimes. plus i keep choking my edgeguards -_-. anyway any advice would be helpful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-G16sgMgpw&feature=related
Click to expand...
too lazy for a true critique atm, but it looked like you were doing lots of damage but not killing. he survived past 120% on a few stocks, so the transition from comboing for damage to linking/setting up for the ko seems to be where much of the match was decided on your end. easier said than done of course also, you got punished a lot for transparent full hops/double jumps

liked your falco btw :). good ****
 
Moooose

Moooose

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Ann Arbor, MI
L__ said:
I'll give it a go

3:25 - be wary of where you laser and where they are because if you commit to a high laser it's not a difficult thing to maneuver around

3:26 - there wasn't any gain to have been made from dair'ing as he was running away. sometimes doing nothing and re-spacing yourself at that position would have been fine too.

4:16 - you have a tendency to jump over him and it's becoming apparent to him/it was easy for him to react to.

4:17 - you've fallen down with aerials pretty often in this match. not the best idea imo.

4:24 - once again, jumping in a spot that doesn't benefit you and can easily be countered.

5:44 - this is again one of those areas where reacting to your approaches from above are easily reacted to and should be avoided in the future imo.

6:25 - this was one of those moments where I've seen falcos commit when it wasn't necessary. after you saw the roll you should have taken a second to re-evaluate the situation and took a different approach to trying to hit him vs. committing to a dash attack.

6:40 - stop coming down with aerials at times that are easy to react to

7:07 - YOU'RE KILLIN' ME SMALLS

--

if the notes were fine i'll give more otherwise nevermind lmao

basically from that match on stadium the sparknotes of what I wanna tell you is to focus on where you're placing your lasers and to basically stop falling with aerials all the time. sometimes you can take advantage of nearby platforms if they aren't in position to react to (or they can react but they aren't in reach of the position) just airdodging onto the platforms for safety.
Click to expand...
thanks for the help! the point about falling with aerials is definitely true, i was too afraid to mix it up with a waveland or something. definitely a nerves issues.
tarheeljks said:
too lazy for a true critique atm, but it looked like you were doing lots of damage but not killing. he survived past 120% on a few stocks, so the transition from comboing for damage to linking/setting up for the ko seems to be where much of the match was decided on your end. easier said than done of course also, you got punished a lot for transparent full hops/double jumps

liked your falco btw :). good ****
Click to expand...
thanks! i defintely agree about killing. i was just thinking about the matchup and i came to the same conclusion, that i need to kill fox at lower percent, and look for opportunities t ocombo into fsmash. sometimes i jsut want to hit them some more instead of goin for that kill haha.
 
unknown522

unknown522

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Toronto, Ontario
Moooose said:
the falco critique thread is gone? well someone teach me how to fox =(. i lost to lovage and tink's fox at the big house. it used to be my best matchup but i havent played any good foxes lately and i feel like i just got overwhelmed sometimes. plus i keep choking my edgeguards -_-. anyway any advice would be helpful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-G16sgMgpw&feature=related
Click to expand...
oh yeah, Raynex, KK, and I were all watching your set vs tink last night.

I'mma critique it later. Must eat.
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Apr 16, 2008
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Westchester, NY
Dam, you look really solid Moose. You had that **** so many different times.

It seems like on some of these up B angles you could just fsmash his firefox instead of going for a dair but idk if that's necessarily better.
 
Moooose

Moooose

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thats one of those things i'd like to ask pp about. i always see him use fsmash to edgeguard but i'm not sure when to use it because it seems risky.

edit:thanks unknown, i know your critique will definitely be useful to me
 
Juggleguy

Juggleguy

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Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
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Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Moooose said:
the falco critique thread is gone? well someone teach me how to fox =(. i lost to lovage and tink's fox at the big house. it used to be my best matchup but i havent played any good foxes lately and i feel like i just got overwhelmed sometimes. plus i keep choking my edgeguards -_-. anyway any advice would be helpful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-G16sgMgpw&feature=related
Click to expand...
critique:

**** harder next time
 
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