PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Sinji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P0h_XdER28

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70taGyCdcBc

this thread is more popular than the critique, if anyone here doesn't mind critiquing me vs peach id appreciate it =D

 

[MacD]

IC's are so good pp

should just ask connor about my ic's vs his falco on flatzone

now that's some fun melee, none of that playing zhu bull****

 

[#HBC | Mac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70taGyCdcBc

this thread is more popular than the critique, if anyone here doesn't mind critiquing me vs peach id appreciate it =D

i watched like 20 secs of it. but theres a part where you shield a dsmash and try to punish it with dair oos. but you just get shield grabbed. instad of doing dair oos you should try wd oos -> shine. It usually hits if you're fast enough/right spacing. And if it does somehow get shielded you're safe and can either start shield pressure or just fadeback early aerial to escape/bait

 

[Dark Hart]

ICs are one of the characters Kevin can figure out



But seriously it's true

 

[Dr Peepee]

funny thing is, it worked.

kevin, we should ganon ditto soon.

and by ganon ditto, i mean i should play your falco because it actually helps me get better.

I'm okay with either LOL. I'm goin hard at all future tourneys though, so be ready for serious Falco or Ganon or whatever when you sit down. I'm cool with teaching too though so just make whatever you want out of the time haha. =p

IC's are so good pp

should just ask connor about my ic's vs his falco on flatzone

now that's some fun melee, none of that playing zhu bull****

LOL wtf are you and connor doing playing that matchup XD

And lmao see you had fun with it and that's what you need more of right now. =)

ICs are one of the characters Kevin can figure out



But seriously it's true

do you mean "can't" LOL

If so, then you're probably partly right. I'm gonna come up with a couple things vs that character too though because getting hit by the hammer hurts. I am not a caribou.

 

[Pi]

i watched like 20 secs of it. but theres a part where you shield a dsmash and try to punish it with dair oos. but you just get shield grabbed. instad of doing dair oos you should try wd oos -> shine. It usually hits if you're fast enough/right spacing. And if it does somehow get shielded you're safe and can either start shield pressure or just fadeback early aerial to escape/bait

i think he just dair'd too slow

@pp
IC are really grounded character and they love to WD OoS, as samus what i can do is ftilt their shield freely
if i try to ftilt -> ftilt, they can wd dsmash
so if i see they start doing that then i can ftilt -> jab, or dsmash i think, but i'm too scared to throw out a dsmash, and they can't dsmash that instead they'll get hit by it

but that's samus ftilt, which has a lot of range, though u might wanna see what u can get away w/ on their shield, because if u can shut down their OoS options then u should be all set

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah I felt like it was all shield game to be honest. That and avoiding desynch blizzard lol(oh and WD Dsmash sometimes). Thanks for the heads up =)

 

[Pi]

also, something i was discussing w/ plup the other day
our friend hozart an IC player was mentiong how plup get's free dairs on his shield, especially if he lands behind him, and trying it out myself i was hardly ever punished for them

but i know a lot of people complain about attacking IC shield messing up their L cancels

so i brought it up w/ plup, and thought about it and neither of us have ever had any problems attacking their shield and L canceling it
and i think that may be due to when our hitbox comes out, it's right in the middle of both of their shields already, so there is no timing difference
but he said when he played fox, there was a varience and he would miss some l cancels

so i think that as long as ur delaying ur aerials on their shield, and the hitbox comes out right in the middle of both of them u shouldn't have any trouble L canceling

but i think it's when u have the hitbox already out, then it comes in contact w/ 1 shield, goes through hitlag, and then hits the other shield and enters more hitlag when the problem occurs

but if it hits both of them at the same time the hitlag occurs on both so there's no difference

idk if u ever had any problems w/ that, but figured i'd mention it

& yea desync blizz is a *****, samus pretty floaty and i can DI/SDI up and over the grab a lot of times, idk bout the bird

 

[Dr Peepee]

Oh, I didn't know that shield hitlag thing at all haha. That's pretty tight. I could actually pressure a little bit maybe then. Hmmmm I'll have to mess around with this because getting grabbed is something I don't like to play around with much haha. Hitting the back of their shields like that though seems like a good way to avoid it overall and not miss the L-cancel timing so there seems to be quite a bit of possibility there. I'll just have to not get carried away if I commit to it so I don't lose them to WD OOS a lot.




Edit: I decided to move video critiques back into this thread because we need more Falco-oriented discussion since this is the Falco boards lol, and more people will get more critiques this way.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

hokay, start wif me!

 

[Druggedfox]

I am not a caribou.

LMAO Did no one else find this great?

 

[KingClubber]

700 pages, nice.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

People who don't use maximum posts per page disgust me

 

[KingClubber]

People who don't use maximum posts per page disgust me

sorry to disgust you?, i guess...but i rather have shorter post per page seeing how i read threads bottom to top...so yeah....

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

 

[KingClubber]

totally confused....

 

[stingers]

even a caribou would be hurt by a mallet that size I'd imagine o.O

 

[Dr Peepee]

Eskimos kill caribou. I don't wanna get killed like a caribou. that's the joke.

 

[Pi]

ur the joke

 

[Bones0]

Eskimos kill caribou. I don't wanna get killed like a caribou. that's the joke.

...

Don't quit your day job, PP (which is Melee).

/saltyIdidn'tgetthejoke

 

[Divinokage]

I smell a MM.

 

[Sinji]

People who don't use maximum posts per page disgust me

...........learn to......... summarize.

 

[Bones0]

hokay, start wif me!

- Make sure you hit confirm your shines. You kept dair shining and hitting him with the shine, but you'd have already SHed again and wouldn't be able to reach him with your double jump.

- @5:35 Pretty sure shine would have killed Peach off the top on the first, chance, if not then definitely on the second.

- You do that shield pressure where you shine on the ground, shine slightly off the ground, then double jump and waveland when possible. I'm not sure if these were double shine attempts, but they don't really help to cover anything. They just leave you vulnerable in the air and give up your pressure.

- Game 1 on FD you were able to use your lasers REALLY well, and it basically shut down Peach's options. On YS, you're laser game was a lot weaker, which is obviously expected because the stage is simply harder to laser on, but it could have been better. Working in Isai drop lasers helps a lot, so definitely work those in. Every time you did use lasers you usually were able to approach safely, so you just needed more.

- Game 3, you pretty much stopped lasering on the bottom level completely, only doing a few double jump lasers that never did much. Approaching from above can work, but usually only as a mixup when you're taking them by surprise. You were just platform hopping, and he had plenty of time to see what you were thinking by your movements. Dropping down and engaging him in laser dash dance on even ground would probably have turned out much better, especially judging by your FD game.

 

[SSBMLahti]

You guys don't caribout anything!

 

[Bones0]

You guys don't caribout anything!

I'll give you an "Eh" for effort.

 

[SSBMLahti]

I'll give you an "Eh" for effort.

After such a rude comment I don't think we can be best friends anymore.

 

[crush]

After such a rude comment I don't think we can be best friends anymore.

Ill be your new best friend.

Do you accept?

Yes
No

 

[Sinji]

I smell a MM.

competition big

 

[Divinokage]

Hey hey, you know i'm already MMing that stupid Roy. =P I got new tricks..

 

[King Funk]

Hey guys,

I had an idea which I'm not sure whether it's been pulled off before. But I think it'd be interesting if we compiled a list of CC'able moves by every character and the ways Falco can punish them (sometimes explaining what kind of SDI/% needed).

 

[Dr Peepee]

That stuff as general rules of thumb sounds pretty good, but we'd have to remember to take various spacngs and timings(aka delayed stuff) into account if we wanted to do this completely. Either way that sounds like a good idea and something people need to know so they can abuse it.

I'd also wonder if we should include ASDI down in that list because it's a pretty solid exploit as well. This would be quite an extensive, but useful, project from the thought of it haha.

I'm tired so if any of that didn't make sense, then my bad.

 

[Pi]

Hey guys,

I had an idea which I'm not sure whether it's been pulled off before. But I think it'd be interesting if we compiled a list of CC'able moves by every character and the ways Falco can punish them (sometimes explaining what kind of SDI/% needed).

heh..hehh


that takes forever, i started a project w/ samus and well it takes forever
here u can see what i got...

Key:
ua - Up Angled
na - Normal Angled
da - Down Angled
stumble - Where samus kinda stands on 1 foot, like when you get Dair'd at low %'s by falco or samus or someone, you know what I'm talking about
ss - Sweet Spot
strong - Strongest hit of the move
weak - Weakest hit of the move
front - Part of the move that hits in front of the character
back - Part of the move that hits behind the character
whole - Where I was lazy and didn't wanna pick out the individual hits of a multihit move so I juss did the whole move's % delt
first hit & last hit - should be self explanatory along w/ most this stuff lol

Format:
Move name - Max% Delt - Min% Delt || Min% CCable - Max% CCable

Also, keep in mind that the Max% CCable is dependent upon your damage AFTER having received the hit


Doctor Mario

• Jab(1) - 4% - 2% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Jab(2) - 3% - 2% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Jab(3) - 6% - 5% || 0% - 156%
  [*]Ftilt (ua) - 9% - 4% || 0% - 123%
  [*]Ftilt (na) - 8% - 4% || 0% - 137%
  [*]Ftilt (da) - 7% - 3% || 0% - 154%
  [*]Utilt - 10% - 5% || 0% - 108%
  [*]Dtilt - 9% - 4% || 0% - 140%
  [*]Fsmash (ua) - 20% - 11% || 0% - 50%
  [*]Fsmash (na) - 19% - 9% || 0% - 52%
  [*]Fsmash (da) - 18% - 9% || 0% - 55%
  [*]Usmash - 16% - 8% || Stumble - 0% - 58%
  [*]Dsmash (front) - 18% - 9% || 0% - 60%
  [*]Dsmash (back) - 15% - 8% || 0% - 77%
  [*]Neutral B - 8% - 4% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Side B - 12% - 6% || 0% - 999% ()
  [*]UpB (first hit) - 5% - 2% || 0% - 999%
  [*]UpB (last hit) - 3% - 1% || 0% - 95%
  [*]Down B (whole) - 13% - 7% || Last hit - 0% - 48%
  [*]Nair (strong) - 14% - 7% || 0% - 76%
  [*]Nair (weak) - 10% - 5% || 0% - 101%
  [*]Uair - 10% - 5% || 0% - 126%
  [*]Fair (ss) - 17% - 9% || 0% - 40%
  [*]Fair - 16% - 8% || 0% - 50%
  [*]Dair (whole) - 19% - 11% || 0% - 999%
  [*]Bair (ss) - 8% - 4% || 0% - 150%
  [*]Bair - 7% - 3% || 0% - 135% (not mixed up, a ss'd bair can be CC'd longer than a non ss'd one)

 

[CableCho57]

hey just quick question about double lasering from the ledge. I know to laser ONTO the stage, the control stick is much easier to get those two close lasers

but i'm wondering about how to drop of the stage and double laser AWAY from the stage, to hit an opponent while edgeguarding.

whats the best way to do this?

 

[mers]

Random mostly pointless question:

How safe would perfect repeated platform canceled bairs be on shield? Obviously it's difficult and would push them away anyhow, but you could definitely do two or three of them before that happened.

 

[leffen]

Right before I dropped Falco I started practicing those but with shield dropping to space them better and to follow if they just hold sheild. I dont think its that safe, I mainly did it as a rare mixup but its definitely learning for combos.

Nowadays I use (shieldrop->) platform canceled uairs with Yoshi as shield pressure/combo move ;D

Could someone please do the frame data? Strong_bad strong bad lol

 

[Sinji]

hey just quick question about double lasering from the ledge. I know to laser ONTO the stage, the control stick is much easier to get those two close lasers

but i'm wondering about how to drop of the stage and double laser AWAY from the stage, to hit an opponent while edgeguarding.

whats the best way to do this?

Same method.

Use the control stick to laser away.

 

[Battlecow]

I thought the caribou joke was excellent. It merited a grin and perhaps even the beginnings of a chuckle.

 

[Bones0]

hey just quick question about double lasering from the ledge. I know to laser ONTO the stage, the control stick is much easier to get those two close lasers

but i'm wondering about how to drop of the stage and double laser AWAY from the stage, to hit an opponent while edgeguarding.

whats the best way to do this?

I press down to fast fall, Y, tilt the stick to the side right after pressing Y, then B twice (DIing onto the stage right after first B press).



Leffen, no one else can shield drop. We're dealing with scruuuuuubs.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm trying to make that a staple of my game to a degree, but it's really hard to get down in actual matches. Also, I'm not sure if Peach has as much profit as a spacie from shield dropping.