choknater
Smash Obsessed
that doesn't sound that good haha
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Don't worry thats a normal side effect.
My hearing would be impaired too if my mind was as thoroughly blown as yours must be right now.
My hearing would be impaired too if my mind was as thoroughly blown as yours must be right now.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i am not going to take your word for it
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
That's a good point KK; I'm not exactly sure how much jab/jump speeds differ in SF since its not a game I actually play but...there's probably far less variance than there is in melee. Lmao, why *would* the developers give someone a 9 frame jump.
PP, I actually have a melee related conceptual question, so its kinda vague. So let's say I'm playing and I notice that, somehow, my opponent is getting away with almost never having to shield (either because I'm not forcing it enough, or because they naturally don't shield much). I feel like somehow that should give me some sort of advantage that I could be pushing better than I am; I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I just think that if they're not shielding at all I should probably be able to get a lot more hits than I do. Any general thoughts on this sort of situation?
PP, I actually have a melee related conceptual question, so its kinda vague. So let's say I'm playing and I notice that, somehow, my opponent is getting away with almost never having to shield (either because I'm not forcing it enough, or because they naturally don't shield much). I feel like somehow that should give me some sort of advantage that I could be pushing better than I am; I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I just think that if they're not shielding at all I should probably be able to get a lot more hits than I do. Any general thoughts on this sort of situation?
Bones0
Smash Legend
Not sure how impaired hearing would prevent him from comprehending what he's read.
WD into side-B, utilt > jab
SUCK IT.
@Druggedfox
Maybe not what you're looking for, but whenever I feel like my opponent is moving around way too easily I try to laser a little more to cut down their movement options and force them into shield.
WD into side-B, utilt > jab
SUCK IT.
@Druggedfox
Maybe not what you're looking for, but whenever I feel like my opponent is moving around way too easily I try to laser a little more to cut down their movement options and force them into shield.
Jake13
Smash Lord
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
No. Side B swings top to bottom, while jab is bottom to top. Against jiggs bottom to top moves are usually better (unless she is right above you...in which case you should be fairing), see: ftilt.
Wavedash jab can punish whiffed bair at a fairly large distance. Even if you mistime it, if they jump towards, the jab will hit the startup of their bair (yeah I know, wtf Marth is broken) due to active frames and the aforementioned swing arc. If you whiff the side B -- which you will a lot because shes floaty and side B has bad range and swing arc -- you get baired and death'd. Jab is 2 frames faster (frame 4 rather than 6), slightly less laggy (3 frames), has more active frames (1 frame), more range, and a better swing arc vs. Puff.
Whenever I see people just let Puffs do whatever they want I cry sad Marth tears. Swat the marshmallow.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
the problem is what happens after the jab.
which i imagine is, jiggs rolling away with 5% more than she had, and a neutral situation.
i could be wrong though, i guess.
which i imagine is, jiggs rolling away with 5% more than she had, and a neutral situation.
i could be wrong though, i guess.
Yeah, forcing someone into shield is a really good thing most of the time because it locks them in place and then you can pressure them in some way usually. If they're not shielding when you think they should be then a lot of rushdown type approaches tend to work like laser to rising Nair with Falco because they usually can't punish it without doing something OOS at most ranges. Shielding is necessary to stop approaches that can be done at certain dangerous spacings and most players intuitively learn them over time. If someone doesn't shield at those times but plays well still then I would take it as incentive to take free damage if I was Marth by overshooting on them(since most people shield if I overshoot with Marth and they're not expecting it) or laser to Ftilt for quick damage to force them to respect my approaches with Falco, stuff like that.
Basically it's free damage on approaches at pretty close range, although not shielding much comes with interesting benefits and mixups as well such as the confusion I described and then obviously forcing people to do things like fast moves you can mix up punishing OOS.
Does that help?
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Thanks bones, but I should have specified that it was non-falco specific =P With falco that makes sense though... not everyone has lasers =/
Hmm, that helps a bit PP. I think I need to think more about the "Shielding is necessary to stop approaches that can be done at certain dangerous spacings and most players intuitively learn them over time. If someone doesn't shield at those times but plays well still then I would take it as incentive to take free damage...". That makes sense, but I need to think about how ways I can apply that some more. That should be enough to figure out what I need though ^_^
Hmm, that helps a bit PP. I think I need to think more about the "Shielding is necessary to stop approaches that can be done at certain dangerous spacings and most players intuitively learn them over time. If someone doesn't shield at those times but plays well still then I would take it as incentive to take free damage...". That makes sense, but I need to think about how ways I can apply that some more. That should be enough to figure out what I need though ^_^
Niko45
Smash Master
Ya...
If she DIs down to the ground she will be out of lag as fast/faster than Marth is from the jab. Tried it many times.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
The point isn't the damage. Its that you gain stage control, and don't let her just throw out bairs without consequence.
Marth doesn't have any follow ups after the jab. The entire purpose is to throw Puff off her usual bair game.
She can't punish you either so its a safe approach.
Niko45
Smash Master
But if she DI's down she will end up on the ground ducking right in front of you which is really bad.
Jab is a cool surprise anti-air in some matchups but if you use it more than a couple of times it is readily counterable and punishable (even if not directly).
People are often naturally DIing this properly anyway in anticipation of fastfalling. It's really not very good.
Honestly I don't know the frame data but it definitely feels like, given that they DI down and are not forced into a tumble animation, Marth is at a frame disadvantage upon landing his jab.
Jab is a cool surprise anti-air in some matchups but if you use it more than a couple of times it is readily counterable and punishable (even if not directly).
People are often naturally DIing this properly anyway in anticipation of fastfalling. It's really not very good.
Honestly I don't know the frame data but it definitely feels like, given that they DI down and are not forced into a tumble animation, Marth is at a frame disadvantage upon landing his jab.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Nipple spike Puff with Marth.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
aw yeah nipple spikes
I liked the whole broad fighting games discussion thing. Any chance we can get back to that?
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Aight, Mogwai we'll take it to the Marth boards. These Falcos can't handle the amount of knowledge being dropped right now.
See me in the Cactuar thread Niko
See me in the Cactuar thread Niko
bolt.
Smash Ace
Oh lord, please no nipple spikes.
aw yeah nipple spikes
I feel like its silly to play any game outside of melee if you're goal is to get good at melee. Playing other fighting games is like cross training for running, it will help you, but if you have the option to run it should always be the priority. As long as you have the drive to get good at melee you should only play melee. Just don't autopilot your friendlies and always have ideas in mind before you start a session.
Although, it is interesting to learn the more general ideas from the 2d fighting communities like the video leffen posted earlier this week.
Edit- Can you smash di falco's up air the same way you would smash di fox's?
Bones0
Smash Legend
I'm pretty sure you can just ASDI down (hold down) and the second hit will usually miss, but obviously if they bair instead of uair your DI will be balls.
Really, I thought going up(maybe to the side?) avoided it......Falco's Uair has always been weird like that to me so maybe that's true haha.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Btw PP, after you mentioned Ron's style on SotG I went and watched a few of his matches and his style is definitely really unique. Especially when he would like FH rising uair and then come back down with a dair or w/e. Very interesting; I love watching people with weird styles. Are there any newer vids of him? I only found pool matches from RoM and a few doubles matches.
I have some matches recorded with him on my VCR from last week atm, but I have to buy software for my new laptop to make my dazzle cooperate with it.....which I'm putting off because it's annoying lol. I'll see if I can buy it and maybe upload a few matches in the near future.
There's also a tournament coming up in a week and a day from now, so I could just record there and upload since I'm sure he'll have some interesting matches with me(LoZR and Mahone won't be attending =(....) there.
There's also a tournament coming up in a week and a day from now, so I could just record there and upload since I'm sure he'll have some interesting matches with me(LoZR and Mahone won't be attending =(....) there.
Vaccine
Smash Journeyman
i am so inconsistent when it comes to techskill
how do i not messup as much?
how do i not messup as much?
Practice!
Also, for me, overthinking all of my button inputs helped me a ton.
Also, for me, overthinking all of my button inputs helped me a ton.
Vaccine
Smash Journeyman
thank youuu
Doomblaze
Smash Journeyman
James lets be terrible in our tech skill together!
I've been beating on computers for awhile to help me out, basically practice.
Play more friendlies, and when you mess up ask yourself why you messed up.
I instinctively l cancel my aerials right after i throw them out which means they tend not to get l cancelled when i hit different parts of people's shields and whatnot.
I think you just have to slow down and think instead of autopiloting your stuff, until you have it down pat.
I've been beating on computers for awhile to help me out, basically practice.
Play more friendlies, and when you mess up ask yourself why you messed up.
I instinctively l cancel my aerials right after i throw them out which means they tend not to get l cancelled when i hit different parts of people's shields and whatnot.
I think you just have to slow down and think instead of autopiloting your stuff, until you have it down pat.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Grind in your room with the lights off, but actually be focused when practicing. Idk if you've ever played a sport, but if you want to practice something like shooting a basketball, you have to focus on each shot with all of your brain power. Focusing hard on 20 shots a day would make you improve a lot more than lobbing up 100 shots a day without a care in the world. The more you focus, the faster you will improve, and the faster you will ingrain the technique into your muscle memory. It also helps if you isolate the technique. Like since I've been working on ledgedashes a lot lately, I know personally I would rather just fly around the map and work in a ledgedash every 20 seconds or so, but I improved a lot more when I just disciplined myself to sit on the ledge until I could do 10 in a row, then 20, then 30, etc.
D
Deleted member
Guest
actually pokemon and chess are a lot alike in that regard. the best players at pokemon can easily and consistently remove the luck variable from the game.
if anyone is down for some deep-end theoretical ideas, i'm probably a good place to start.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I like breaking my tech skill things into parts. First, short hop. Then aerial. Then fast fall. Then L-cancel. Then shine. Then short hop out of shine. Repeat. For me, at least, breaking the inputs up into each individual part (and making sure you can do each individual part, too) helps a lot. I think focus is, like everyone else has said, the most important thing.
Falco's uptilt is both really good and really annoying >__< Darn you, Peepee, for giving this Falco main another idea on approaching Peach.
Falco's uptilt is both really good and really annoying >__< Darn you, Peepee, for giving this Falco main another idea on approaching Peach.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I was watching PP vs. Armada at Pound for the millionth time and I noticed once instance when he was dash dancing and right after dashing away he WDed in towards him and up tilted. I watched it like 30 times because it kept surprising me because I never see people do it.
The last time I played with my regular Marth opponent I just spammed the **** out of it and he even told me something along the lines of "WTF at your random new technique. Now I have to ****ing adapt." LOL
As soon as I master ledge dashing I will just be spamming ledge dash turn around utilt-dair until I kill someone with it. XD
OMG just minutes after posting that I never see it, I watch THIS (Beast 2: Leffen vs. Hack). WTF lol
The last time I played with my regular Marth opponent I just spammed the **** out of it and he even told me something along the lines of "WTF at your random new technique. Now I have to ****ing adapt." LOL
As soon as I master ledge dashing I will just be spamming ledge dash turn around utilt-dair until I kill someone with it. XD
OMG just minutes after posting that I never see it, I watch THIS (Beast 2: Leffen vs. Hack). WTF lol
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Luck and pokemon... >_> You know how I feel about that
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
I was gonna post the same thing haha
Bones0
Smash Legend
Critical Hits are a worse game mechanic than tripping in Brawl.Luck and pokemon... >_> You know how I feel about that
Straight up.
Doomblaze
Smash Journeyman
You have to DI falcos upair in the direction his beak is facing or it doesnt work
I havent tried it myself cause i dont have any falcos to practice against, but thats what my friends tell me. Basically its really weird.
Whats the best way to pressure someone when theyre on a platform above you? I like shffling uairs at their sheild but they just jump away from me. Should i try to predict when theyre gonna jump so i can hit them, or should i start shine waveland ****** people?
I havent tried it myself cause i dont have any falcos to practice against, but thats what my friends tell me. Basically its really weird.
Whats the best way to pressure someone when theyre on a platform above you? I like shffling uairs at their sheild but they just jump away from me. Should i try to predict when theyre gonna jump so i can hit them, or should i start shine waveland ****** people?
Bones0
Smash Legend
Bair/uair if you want to shield poke. FH a rising aerial if you think they will jump OoS. Shine waveland for anything else.
Winston
Smash Master
And don't forget, you don't always have to commit (right away) to "pressure" them ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9i8QjAeCc#t=1m32s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9i8QjAeCc#t=1m32s
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I remember seeing it there, too, and thinking, "Well, that's weird." But I didn't think I'd see it again. Adapting to weird techniques is so dumb. =P
Veetaak
Smash Lord
Sinji
Smash Master
Empty jumps wins psychological battles
Vaccine
Smash Journeyman
okay i noticed a bad habit of mine and i want to correct it but i need a little guidance.
sometimes when i dair my opponent they will smash di away, and then im in this weird position where i cant shine them, but ill instinctively go for shine -> wavedash, cause i hit them with the dair and i want to pull a **** combo, but then ill miss and sometimes get grabbed -.-
what could i do in this situation instead of being stupid? id like to do some damage and avoid getting grabbed.
i just thought of one more bad habit id like to break
whenever im in a neutral sutuation with my opponent and we're just spacing and whatnot and i c an opening ill always approach with a nair i never approach with dair. it doesn't matter who my opponent is playing or what % hes at
id like a general idea of when its better to approach with dair instead of nair
one more thing (last one)
sometimes is fine myself in this janky situation where ill approach with a nair and my opponent will wd back and shield the tip of my nair and then ill b out of shine range (but i try it anyways -.-) and ill get grabbed.
im not sure if i can get out of this situation without giving them an easy opportunity to grab me? if there is id like to know it.
Thank You
sometimes when i dair my opponent they will smash di away, and then im in this weird position where i cant shine them, but ill instinctively go for shine -> wavedash, cause i hit them with the dair and i want to pull a **** combo, but then ill miss and sometimes get grabbed -.-
what could i do in this situation instead of being stupid? id like to do some damage and avoid getting grabbed.
i just thought of one more bad habit id like to break
whenever im in a neutral sutuation with my opponent and we're just spacing and whatnot and i c an opening ill always approach with a nair i never approach with dair. it doesn't matter who my opponent is playing or what % hes at
id like a general idea of when its better to approach with dair instead of nair
one more thing (last one)
sometimes is fine myself in this janky situation where ill approach with a nair and my opponent will wd back and shield the tip of my nair and then ill b out of shine range (but i try it anyways -.-) and ill get grabbed.
im not sure if i can get out of this situation without giving them an easy opportunity to grab me? if there is id like to know it.
Thank You