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Ehh, are you talking about any character or situation specifically? If someone is by the ledge I will often be lasering for pressure and pivoting ac bairs to cover OoS options, but I don't see a reason to force the two together all the time. If you always laser -> pivot bair they will just realize it and wait for the bair before moving. If you are just mixing up dash dance laser and the occasional pivot ac bair you'll have a lot more success. Depending on the player, laser -> grab is usually a lot safer because people tend to hold their shield longer when they are afraid of getting hit off stage, and uthrow usually leads into at least an edge guard, if not a dair spike. If you mix up both you can cover shielding with grabs and spot dodging/jumping OoS with bairs (ac bairs usually also let you react to cross up rolls, but obviously the goal of the dash dance before all of this is to bait all of these reactions including rolling).I think it was discussed a little while back, but how do you guys feel about laser -> pivot bair to set up edge guards or get kills?
This could be very wrong or partially wrong, but here goes:
I meant use it more like a mixup. Not as a bread and butter approach.Ehh, are you talking about any character or situation specifically? If someone is by the ledge I will often be lasering for pressure and pivoting ac bairs to cover OoS options, but I don't see a reason to force the two together all the time. If you always laser -> pivot bair they will just realize it and wait for the bair before moving. If you are just mixing up dash dance laser and the occasional pivot ac bair you'll have a lot more success. Depending on the player, laser -> grab is usually a lot safer because people tend to hold their shield longer when they are afraid of getting hit off stage, and uthrow usually leads into at least an edge guard, if not a dair spike. If you mix up both you can cover shielding with grabs and spot dodging/jumping OoS with bairs (ac bairs usually also let you react to cross up rolls, but obviously the goal of the dash dance before all of this is to bait all of these reactions including rolling).
Yeah I hope that helped. You play a lot smarter than a lot of falcos that I see. You remind me of th0rns falco, in that your play emphasizes spacing more than the typical falco, if that makes sense. Very fun to watch too.Thanks Legend4ryFLower
i agree ! especially on the dangerous placement at the ledge. i dont quite know my zones vs ganon i feel.. he's always surprising me.
just gotta remember how slow ganon is, and how you don't have to jump into his fatty slow aerials.
Yeah, that might have been me, especially if it was a red Falco cause no one plays red. lolI meant use it more like a mixup. Not as a bread and butter approach.
Btw did I play you at pound 5? If I did we played by the water/entrance on day 2 and it was falco dittos. I had a lot of fun playing you... if that was you.
At low %s they do that rocking back motion when you hit them with dair, but they are still in stun so the only way they will be able to shine you is by crouch canceling or if you just wait too long to do your next move (shine, pivot utilt, grab, w/e).Assuming they are on the ground, should fox or falco be able to shine falco out of a dair -> shine at 0% when not crouch canceled?
Second video game 1:
Game 1:Hi, could a good falco player please critique my tournament set from the last HOG? Particularly, if people are willing to drop advice about ledgeguarding with falco, since i think a weakness in that department really cost me the set. I have been going to tournaments for roughly 1.5 or 2 years now, and I'm really looking to improve.
Thanks for your help. I am the default color, and bolt is the green one.
Tink's Fox game 2:the falco critique thread is gone? well someone teach me how to fox =(. i lost to lovage and tink's fox at the big house. it used to be my best matchup but i havent played any good foxes lately and i feel like i just got overwhelmed sometimes. plus i keep choking my edgeguards -_-. anyway any advice would be helpful
Don't be so quick to get over Ganon(although FH Dair can be great sparingly).
I actually use a ton of Dair to edgeguard lately lol. Maybe I'll go back to some Fsmash because it's easy and you can still followup out of it some....thats one of those things i'd like to ask pp about. i always see him use fsmash to edgeguard but i'm not sure when to use it because it seems risky.
edit:thanks unknown, i know your critique will definitely be useful to me
i just feel like challenging ganons aerial game is soo sketchy, at best you get a 1 hit in into an uptilt or something, at worse you lose your stock pretty damn easily.@Trahh, I haven't seen the match you were critiquing the vs ganon stuff, so I could be taking what you said out of context but:
Just as a general thought, I definitely wouldn't say that falco shouldn't challenge ganon while hes in the air. A big part of what can make that matchup (and the peach matchup) easier is hitting them while they're in the air, but before their moves actually come out. Sometimes respecting your opponent's space a bit too much is exactly what they need; I definitely think a huge aspect of fighting slow characters that rely on their air game is exploiting them while they're in the air, not just waiting until they're back on the ground.
seems to mostly agreedrpeepee said:Do not challenge Ganon as he has a move out or is falling unless you're using a laser first or waiting until he lands to attack him(you can hit him in the air before he does his moves though but that one is tougher to do so just stick to the first part).
i think you're missing two things:i just feel like challenging ganons aerial game is soo sketchy, at best you get a 1 hit in into an uptilt or something, at worse you lose your stock pretty damn easily.
i just don't see the point in coming at him when he's approaching with an aerial, when you could just approach on your terms, which is alot more often.
on #2, yes i agree, if your right in his face and he tries to jump then thats easy to ****, i meant 'in the air' as in already in the air, which in most cases means hes gonna approach, or try to get ini think you're missing two things:
1: an uptilt on ganon is brutal. you can do unspeakable things to him if you land an utilt and are on top of your punish game.
2: you dont come at him when he's approaching with an aerial. it's more like, if you're putting on enough pressure and staying close to him, you have time to hit him when he jumps before his hitboxes are out/dangerous. You obviously want to stay way clear when he's actually gotten to comfortable spacing where he has some serious threats, but if you're on his **** you can reasonably hit him before his moves come out.
It is intuitive, but a lot of intuitive things need to be brought to light for people to improve I find.lol, PP
I mean, I know I suck, but that's all kind of intuitively obvious stuff, isn't it?
Don't you guys peoplewatch?
Do you have any examples of this? That'd be really cool if you did. =)IMHO Fox is as good as he is largely because his effective moveset in almost any given situation is about 3+ moves longer than the next character, which is great. There's a lot of complexity to his game in virtually every aspect. This is mainly because of his crazy movement game and versatile jumps, dash, waveland, decent hitboxes, varied move properties, etc. that give him a lot of angles and effective counters to situations as they appear.
I used to totally forget all of my mistakes and just wait for videos lol.Hmmm...
what are some of your guyses thoughts on your mistakes during a match
Like, as they are happening, let's say you make a poor edgeguarding decision, or time it wrong
or maybe something like a messed waveland that you don't get punished for
minor things that happen to a lot of people and aren't pointed out as much, I feel like I don't remember them enough because I try not to let them get to me while in a match, but almost to the point of me just writing them off as things I should practice
like if I'm trying to utilt edgeguard a spacie, and i mistime it and get hit by the UB and trade, or don't trade, just get hit
it's like 'oh well no big deal it's kind hard any way' but i mean that could have been a stock
things like that, do you guys kill yourself over those things or kinda just move on?