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Pokémon Black and White (WARNING: SPOILERS)

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Tomo Takino

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But I'm curious to know, how exactly do reviewers figure out precisely what a game is supposed to achieve so they can give these unbiased opinions? Surely that also might be a matter of opinion too?
They have to infer that for themselves, just like critics in every other field. Game critics have it a bit easier than most, because they get to judge definable things like glitches and controls. No review system is perfect, because the arts are based in imperfections and subjectivity and the reviewers are people who are flawed themselves.

and then there's pitchfork, who doesn't even talk about the **** album in the review lol

I've never played Facade. What kind of hard is it, is it something like Kaizo hard or like what.
In Facade, its an interactive drama where you are invited to the home of two friends you use to know who are now married. They are breaking apart, and it is your job to fix their problems by helping them talk it out. How difficult does that sound?



Even endless ocean has its flaws beyond not being fun.
I didn't claim it perfect, only used it as an example of an incredibly polarizing definition of fun.

Really, here's the deal. For the most part, "Fun" and "Gameplay" are almost interchangeable. Sure, they're nowhere near the same thing, but a game with really good gameplay tend to be the games people enjoy more, and the ones with worse gameplay LESS people enjoy.
Not true. Metal Gear Solid has SEVERAL moments that are literally designed to NOT be fun. In Metal Gear Solid 4, you have to help push Snake through a looooong tedious torture hallway and watch him suffer excruciable pain. This is by no means fun. Its disturbing, grueling, and comes right down close to work. BUT, it provides a powerful emotional punch to watch this character you have become attached to suffer and endure such pain.

The battle with Sniper Wolf is designed to be annoying so that when you win you celebrate, only to be impacted by the emotional cut scene afterwords. I'd included the battle with The End, but I did find this to be much more entertaining, because of the enjoyable enviroment, funny quirks of the old man, and his parrot. There's just more here other than trying to snipe out a snipper from several feet away.

Max Payne is another example of a game that has moments litterally designed not to be "fun." Killer 7 also contains moments that were clearly designed to be anything but fun. I also suspect some of this in Shadow of the Colosis, but people would disagree with me.

If you'd like a breif example, please look up Don't Look Back. The 2nd half of that game isn't fun, and for some packs a pretty big emotional wallop.

Everyone rates gameplay all the time.
And as I gave you above, moments of great gameplay that are in no way fun. Gameplay does not equal fun, judging gameplay is judging someones ability to convey something across using gameplay. Most of the times this IS fun because of how underdeveloped the artistic side of video games is, however fun and gameplay are not codependent.

Let me take "Plays" for example. They are called Plays because they use to be silly little things, nothing that you could really take serious. They were, ya know, Playful. Well are you willing to call MacBeth playful? Unless your a sociopath I hope you won't. Games have a long way to involve, and placing these arbitrary barriers saying that they MUST be this or that isn't going to help them progress.

And the point still stands about how judging fun is impossible to do objectively, because fun REQUIRES subjectivity.
 

Pluvia

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Well for example I go over to my friends house about 3 days a week, we play Xbox together. He has a younger brother and sister and by far the funnest game to play at his is Brawl. Get us 4, put on high Pokeballs and Assist Trophies on FD and it outclasses every single other game he has.

A game that can be played over and over again, has 4 players on 1 console and you can have fun no matter the skill level of people you're playing against? Brawl has succeeded there easily.

Brawl is definitely the best party game of this consoles generation and rightly deserves that 10/10 I think.
 

sammy p

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not that i ever have much to add to this conversation.... so i realize i prolly shouldnt be saying this, but it seem that this thread has gotten a little off topic :p
jus sayin
 

Tomo Takino

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From Melkor:
* There are quite interesting type combinations of BOTH trios (excluding Reshiram/Zekrom/Third)
* Swana does not evolve.
* Chillarmy evolves. "Is a scam of evolution, but have one".
* Hiro confirms Meguroko (the crocodile) have 2 evolutions.
* There are 16 new Dark type pokemon
* Isshu have a Dragon type gym.
* There are a Steel/Dark pokemon, is not a legendary.


The type of the starters evos are really Grass, Water, Fire/Fighting?
- Yes, those are.


How many gyms in BW?
- We dont like to reveal details of the plot, but there are 8 gyms as usual.


Hey Hiro, a rumour say that there is a new evolutionary line of dragons and apparently will be black. Will they have any secondary types?
- In fact, the secondary type is Dragon.


OMG thats interesting ¿Dragón as a secondary type? I think I only seen that on Kingdra. I would like a Ghost/Dragon, 2 immunities (3 with Levitate), not bad at all, but if is Dark I will not like it so much...
- Almost, Dark/Dragon.


¿Is it true that there will not be Bug-type cocoons in B&W??
- There will be cocoons, but maybe something different from the previously seen. Less simple.


The leaf caterpillar will be a butterfly xD
- I already said the caterpillars will not evolve into butterflys.


I heard a rumor that there will be a Ghot/Water pokemon (inspired by a ghost of japanese mythology which is like an umbrella with one eye and a tongue XDDD)
- There is a Water/Ghost pokemon that already has appeared in a video, but have nothing to do with that umbrella.


Now that I think about it, someone said in a chat that Basurao will be the V gen Magikarp, but Water/Ghost type.
- Basurao is only Water type and has not appeared in any video iirc.


Is true there will be a Dragon/Poison pokemon?
- No, there is no Dragon/Poison pokemon.



From 2chan
>IVs have been changed to eight levels (?)
>Though Pokemons' statuses won't change as a result, their base IVs will change.
>Compared to 4th gen, you'll gain 4x EVs per battle
>Hidden Power has been changed to a set 60-70 base power
>No new natures
>A total of 26 new abilities
>A total of 156 new Pokemon (Five will be "distributed" (Editor's note: Wi-Fi, events?))
>Hypnosis's accuracy is 55%, Dark Hole's accuracy is 50%
>Triple/Rotation Battles are more like extras, but they'll be used in a few events in the story
>You can't get items through the Pokeshifter
>You can set whether or not the Miracle Shooter is usable
>Random Battles: 66 anonymous (?) singles and 44 anonymous (?) doubles (probably WCS(?) rules); Both use Tower Rules and the Sleep Clause
>"Fresh Rules": You can only use Pokemon raised in B/W
>Battle Subway can be "captured" over Wi-Fi
>DSi can read barcodes at McDonald's etc. to get items and Pokemon
>The Season can be changed at will through Hidden Machine attacks



ブラックホワイトの仕様について
・個体値は8段階に変更
6Vポケモンのステータスは変わらない代わりに低個体値ポケモンのステータ
スが変化
・努力値は第四世代に比べて一回の戦闘で4倍もらえるようになった
・めざめるパワーは威力60~70で固定
・新性格は無し
・新特性は全部で26種類
・新ポケモンは全部で156匹(そのうち5匹が配信)
・催眠術の命中が55、ダークホールの命中は50
・トリプル、ローテーションバトルはおまけに近いがシナリオで何度かイベ
ント戦がある
・ポケシフターで道具を送ることは不可
・ミラクルシューターは使うか使わないかルールで設定可能
・ランダムバトルは見せ合い無しの66シングルと見せ合い無しの44ダブル(
おそらくWCSルール)両方タワールール基準+複数催眠禁止
・フレッシュルールという括りがありBWで育てたポケモンしか使えない
・バトルサブウェイはwifiで攻略できる
・DSiでマクドナルドなどのバーコードを撮ることによりアイテムやポケモン
が手に入る
・季節は秘伝技により任意に変更可能
 

Wrath`

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More fire fighting? What the hell. And why do they seem to wan't to make Hypnosis a horrible move, geeze if anything lower spore's accuracy.


Also IV's changing? What was wrong with the good old 0-31?
 

Tomo Takino

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There are currently 6 IVs. There will now be 8. No one is quite sure what that means. New stats? Friendship/Anger? We don't know, let's just wait and see if these are true and if so, what some of them mean.
 

UltiMario

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I'm going to take everything that happens in the next week as BS, bar the last Pokemon Sunday and CoroCoro before B/W's release.

Seriously, this is the last opportunity for fakers to screw with everyone, what is above is probably included in it.
 

Steelia

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More fire fighting? What the hell.
My thoughts as well. If the fire pig's ANOTHER Fire/Fighting, I'm going with Smugleaf. Screw this Blaziken trend.

Taking all that news with a block of salt. I'd rather wait till confirmation, if anything; don't see the point of spreading such news now that we're getting so close to the releases... I think I'll just sit out till then. DP had a lot of interesting rumors about it, then half of them got cut, and the games didn't seem as exciting.
 

PowerBomb

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I'd bet that it's all fake to attract attention. Either that or when Gamefreak said that you weren't going to even recognize the game as Pokemon, they were being serious.
 

Kofu

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IVs changing seems really odd. Changing how Pokemon are coded will screw with those carefully raised.

I'm taking this with a grain of salt, too.
 

Mic_128

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* There are a Steel/Dark pokemon
If true, would be awesome. Had a Dark Steelix deck in the TCG, so a Dark/Steel type would be awesome. (Shame there's a 0% chance it'd be a Steelix evo :c)

>The Season can be changed at will through Hidden Machine attacks
This would certainly make sense, though would kinda be a bit disappointing that there wouldn't be a new areas of the game to check out every month or so.:urg:
 

PowerBomb

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So a translator translated a scan of this booklet(?). It was partial, but it was enough to say that Ken made the three starters based off of Western, Chinese, and Japanese culture.

Smugleaf = Western
Pignite = Chinese
Wotter = Japanese

So he went to a sea otter/lion show and got an idea for the final evo to be a bipedal shell-swinging thing, which would match the Samurai cultural thing for Japan.
Smugleaf might become a Quetzalcoat look-alike, based off of the Aztecs in America (Western!).

Because Pignite is based off of Chinese culture, he probably won't evolve into some bipedal fat wrestler. He might evolve into a Chinese lion.

Also, to quote serebii:
Serebii said:
This both reassures and worries me
Serebii said:
Your reputation isn't at stake
So....
 

UltiMario

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Fire/Dark plz

One with 534BST

and 110 speed

and 130 attack

Please
 

XACE-K

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Pretty much means Serebii may be right, or may be wrong. The otter-corn Serebii believes is right can be if it can be bipedal and uses the shell as a sword. If it can't (which I believe, I can't see it being bipedal) than Serebii (and other sites) are wrong and would be flamed by people.

I just want the starters to look cool.
 

Tomo Takino

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The pig will likely be based on either the chinese callender Year of the Pig or the legend Journey to the West, a work so influential you can see it reflected in everything from Dragonball to kung fu movies.

Its important to note that the Samurai was hinted at before the scans were leaked, not by Nintendo, but a lot of us were already talking about that because of the 2nd form.
 

PowerBomb

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It's just that, in Wotter's 2nd evolution, he suddenly... 'grows' clothes. So now he's clothed. All of a sudden, he becomes a quadrupedal (with thumbs, apparently) thing that is naked. It's just kind of strange. I kind of expected the last evolution to have three shells instead of two on its body.
 

M.K

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Ken Sugimori, primary illustrator: I really struggled the most with the Water-type [starter] this time.
Yusuke Ohmura, illustrator: There was talk of, “Wouldn’t a sea otter be good for the Water starter?” But it was a really close decision in terms of what this sea otter would become once it evolves. In the end, we decided to have it evolve into something with a completely different appearance.
Sugimori: Of course, we want to make the starters into Pokémon that remain with the player throughout the game, so we hope to make them evolve into creatures that offer a surprise to the player. We always make an effort to throw in some twists and create third-stage evolutions that have an impact.
Ohmura: There was also talk this time about dividing the three starters into Japanese, Western, and Chinese styles of design. Tsutaaja was based on Western design, and Pokabu was rooted in a Chinese style, so I was told, “Let’s make Mijumaru into a more Japanese-style design.” Someone even asked, “Can’t you make Mijumaru into a samurai?” [laughs]
Everyone: [laughs]
Sugimori: I worried about it for a while, and I eventually went to go see the sea otters at the aquarium. I happened to catch the sea lion show while I was there, and I became aware of the sea lion’s power. “Well, let’s try blending a sea otter and a sea lion,” I thought. I came up with the idea of making the shell on Mijumaru’s stomach into a sword (katana) and using it to fight, and that’s how I completed Mijumaru and its evolution.”
This is from Pokemon Pia, the magazine that came out today to detail some things about the game....
....thoughts? It doesn't necessarily fit with the "supposed" final evolution.
 

Tomo Takino

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Parts of that could go either way.

For the supposed starter:

In the end, we decided to have it evolve into something with a completely different appearance.
We always make an effort to throw in some twists and create third-stage evolutions that have an impact.
Against
I came up with the idea of making the shell on Mijumaru’s stomach into a sword (katana) and using it to fight, and that’s how I completed Mijumaru and its evolution.”
 

Kofu

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That's what I assumed, too, as some of them look really awkward.

I'd still like to know more about the site, though.
 

PowerBomb

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I can guarantee those are fake. That's not Sugimori's art style.
Oh thank god, I nearly had a heart attack.

So, Serebii isn't sure if he's right anymore. God these starters are causing chaos. I hope the real starter evo's are leaked soon so we can get rid of this stupidity.
 

UltiMario

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I saw the guy that made the art for one of those in some Serebii thread.

So I know they're fake.
 
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