Playing Ganondorf in Brawl+ and How to Continue Murdering People

[goodoldganon]

I don't care, I just like trying to use that 'combo' because it looks cool. lol

And that is what playing Ganon is all about my friend.

I'll have this guide updated on Sunday or Monday with the official final changes Ganon will be receiving in 4.1

 

[Veril]

Research for Evil!

I thought they fixed the issue with teching the side-b. Whatever, I'm going to operate under the assumption that they will do so.

Anyway...

I'm testing combos for the characters I like. Ganon is one of them. I am starting by testing what I view as either underused or really friggin good... or interesting to me... 2-move combos. Hopefully this will help people string together moves and it'll help me when I expand into longer combos.

What I am doing with Ganon (as soon as I get my wii back)
-Finding the % range of 5 2-move combos and 1 3-move combo. I'll do more after these.
-These will be tested without DI on MK, Sheik and Marth.
-And they are...
D-tilt to dash attack, D-tilt to side-b (that would be sick), and d-tilt to f-air
D-air x2, D-air to side-b
You guys can give me the 3-move combo to test.

The Jigglypuff guide will give you an idea of what I'm going for.

 

[stRIP]

Played the 4.1 Beta

Ganons recovery is still bad, but better than before with the rejump gain after wizkick

UpB hat hitstun <3

And the wiztruck..is the wiztruck Ô.Ô

 

[ZeonStar]

Something needs to be done to his sideb, its basically pointless without a gauranteed jab or downtilt. And it feels like at times Ganon can be at the disadvantage because of the many ways the opponent can tech and react.

Maybe some added damage to the choke on his sideb?

 

[leafgreen386]

Something needs to be done to his sideb, its basically pointless without a gauranteed jab or downtilt. And it feels like at times Ganon can be at the disadvantage because of the many ways the opponent can tech and react.

Maybe some added damage to the choke on his sideb?

Actually, I love his new sideB. So much **** techchasing potential. There really is no good way for them to tech if you can properly read them. As long as you predict it, you could get another choke off regardless of how they tech or dash attack to begin comboing them, and at killing percents, teching at all will result in death upon a proper read, be it through fsmash (tech towards) or wiztruck (tech away or in place).

 

[stRIP]

Actually, I love his new sideB. So much **** techchasing potential. There really is no good way for them to tech if you can properly read them. As long as you predict it, you could get another choke off regardless of how they tech or dash attack to begin comboing them, and at killing percents, teching at all will result in death upon a proper read, be it through fsmash (tech towards) or wiztruck (tech away or in place).

We can even techchase with the SideB that is not techable and predict them to death

But if you have an opponent which is impossible to predict (rolls, GuA normal standup, a opponent that is changing everytime) every ganon would go for guaranteed damage like DTilt or Jab

I completely agree with ZeonStar


(Sry for my bad english btw, im german and i try to do my best)

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Something needs to be done to his sideb, its basically pointless without a gauranteed jab or downtilt. And it feels like at times Ganon can be at the disadvantage because of the many ways the opponent can tech and react.

Maybe some added damage to the choke on his sideb?

I agree. Ganon's choke has only been useful in VBrawl due to it's follow-ups, the damage should really go up by a few percents.

Is Ganon's recovery still the same old crappy one? I don't really play Brawl+, just checking up on how it's going for Ganon here.

 

[Revven]

Is Ganon's recovery still the same old crappy one? I don't really play Brawl+, just checking up on how it's going for Ganon here.

Roflno.

Ganondorf no longer has that crappy momentum restriction he had before on his Up B. He also has Down B second jump reset like he did in Melee, so overall, his recovery got a huge boost. You ought to play Brawl+, you'd like this Ganondorf moar than the one in Brawl. Even without guaranteed Side B setups, he still ***** HARD because of his new Fair approach and his overall speed. I dare say he puts up a good fight against DK as well.

 

[stRIP]

I agree. Ganon's choke has only been useful in VBrawl due to it's follow-ups, the damage should really go up by a few percents.

Is Ganon's recovery still the same old crappy one? I don't really play Brawl+, just checking up on how it's going for Ganon here.

You gain the rejump back after the wizkicklike in Melee, and UpB has hitstun

edit: omfg wtf, i refreshed the page, no1 answered Kalm, i posted and then Falco400's message appeared lol

 

[shanus]

Ganon has more combo potential, a great tech chase game, a better recovery, and much improved kill options. Guaranteed set-ups or more damage on his sideB would just be holding your hand more.

 

[goodoldganon]

Tech chasing is overrated and is something people seem to get some unnatural hard-on and beat off to it when it really isn't that big of a deal. With the faster tech rolls I can't predict which way my opponent is gonna tech until I have played them enough to get a general idea on what they are thinking. I'd say my tech prediction rate against newer opponents is about 50-50. I suppose that's not bad but why bother? I'd rather just dash attack or f-air to jab. Or something else less risky with a higher reward.

Basically the Murder Choke isn't useless, the tech chasing potential is quite nuts, but it certainly isn't as good as non-Ganon mains make it out to be. Against skilled opponents I'd rather go with what's guaranteed and not what looks cool.

I wouldn't be against guaranteed followups, or some more damage but he sure as hell doesn't need it. It's sad to see what is probably the games most badass move fall so far, I cry myself to sleep every night over it, but overall Ganon is a better character now then he ever was.

EDIT: I'll update this guide on Monday or Tuesday with all the changes. Going out of town this weekend.

 

[Finns7]

The move is so badass though Id rather have it do more damage and no guaranteed followups.


Based off my badass equation............ **** 1/2gt X 10 is directly proportional to smex... which equates to more damage. Your getting choked and slammed to the ground by dark magic............@_@ Ganon truly is the King of Evil.


On second thought though I cant live without some followups, but lets face it he has gotten a hell of a lot more options since vbrawl.

 

[kupo15]

I agree. Ganon's choke has only been useful in VBrawl due to it's follow-ups, the damage should really go up by a few percents.

Is Ganon's recovery still the same old crappy one? I don't really play Brawl+, just checking up on how it's going for Ganon here.

Or maybe readd the dsmash buff? I believe it was taken out and should be added as another setup for losing this one

 

[Veril]

His down-b is definitely one of my favorite moves in the game right now. Side-b... not so much.

Oh, probably known, but you can down-b off one platform and if you end on another one you can do the super-jump (or anything else). Not terribly important but flashy as s***. Its easiest to do on the middle platforms of BF.

 

[ZeonStar]

As for downsmash, I liked what you guys were trying to do by having it pop up the opponent, it just seemed like whenever I would successfully hit the opponent with it, more than ever the opponent would be launched up too high, not to mention that so many of ganondorfs moves aka, stomp, dash attack, upsmash, downtilt hit the opponent upwards at high altitudes.

Id at least like to see the speed buff come back for his downsmash, or at least a power boost for knockback.
Its pretty much useless at the moment, seeing as FALCONS downsmash does more knockback, is faster, and actually connects! The first hit on Ganons downsmash doesnt even lock them in the attack alot of the time.

But maybe we should have given the first buff that you guys did to Ganons downsmash a little more consideration? I could see downsmash>sideb death combo being pretty amazing at low percents, and maybe some things we didnt try.

But yeah, the side b needs something, try even connecting the sideb against a top player, and then techchasing your opponent! In some cases, a good player will immediately tech away from ganondorf and the sideb cant even reach the opponent if he techs away fast enough, unless im doing something wrong.

 

[V-K]

Ganondorf is really strong now.
Now with reduced landing lag he can just use his powerful airials all the time.

I really like him. Don´t think he needs much more stuff.

 

[Veril]

Ganon is by no means the best or even one of the best characters atm. He is, however, by far the most bad***. Honestly, his moves are so satisfying to land its absurd. Add to that his down-b is now my second favorite move in the game (after rest).

I really thought he was only good as secondary material, but with a side-b buff he would definitely be a viable and enjoyable main. Also, again, he's not just a bad***, he's THE bad***.

 

[ZeonStar]

I just think hes touching the point of being viable in high level play, of course hes still amazing againt your above average player, but getting a heavy character to be viable in high level play without making him broken is quite the task in fighting games.

 

[ZeonStar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujjbpPI1YYw

Check 0:30 in this video, I think the lag from his aerial choke needs to be sped up a little bit.

 

[Cropcircles]

i'm having a hard time not loving ganondorf now. Not entirely high level viable as some might say because of the buffs the others have gotten aswell, but i'm a believer and as long as i can kick some *** and be aggressive with ma gaaaaanondawf, then i'm satisfied!

 

[goodoldganon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujjbpPI1YYw

Check 0:30 in this video, I think the lag from his aerial choke needs to be sped up a little bit.

Sorry I never responded, it's something I'll look into.

Updated Info on the Murder Choke and Wizards Kick as well as new strategies for approaching and edgeguarding have been added. Nothing major, I'm still waiting on the future of the Choke.

 

[ZeonStar]

Sorry I never responded, it's something I'll look into.

Updated Info on the Murder Choke and Wizards Kick as well as new strategies for approaching and edgeguarding have been added. Nothing major, I'm still waiting on the future of the Choke.

Thanks guy

 

[mariofanpm12]

In Brawl+ Ganondorf should be made slightly heavier. He's lik the 5th-7th heaviest character when he should be like 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Kuga]

Well,i dont think they can change this right now.But if they can,D3 should be in 3rd,Snake heavier than a fat penguin?Even with his weapons

 

[Rkey]

It's decided, I'm a Ganon main now ^_^

My first addition to the thread is:


Ganons flight isn't as easy to do in b+, the shorthop -> second jump -> AD doesn't time as it used to due to changed gravity, has anyone else found a nice way to time it? I'm just practicing fullhop AD's to make them result in Ganons flight. Other methods?

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

I DESTROY all my friends who I play Brawl + with (meaning those who refuse to play my melee Mewtwo). He's just got such rapetastic moves its amazing.
I pulled off a stomp -> USmash -> Fair combo the other day, and my friend refused to let me play Ganon. He's not all that great (my friend) but still he punishes HARD now.

 

[mariofanpm12]

To be honest the weight order should be Bowser, Donkey Kong, Ganondorf/King Dedede, Charizard, Snake...

 

[Veril]

To be honest the weight order should be Bowser, Donkey Kong, Ganondorf/King Dedede, Charizard, Snake...

Ganondorf is the tallest character in the game. He should have some substantial knockback resistance to compensate. On the plus side, he isn't that susceptible to combos atm and I wouldn't want that to change.

DK really really really doesn't need to be any better. Really.

 

[Revven]

DK is the perfect weight, he lives for so long, do you want me (DK) to live at 215%? Because I can already live at 200% right now as it is with amazing DI.

But, this isn't about DK.

/offtopic

 

[Rkey]

To discuss again, you have been saying that Ganon has troubles approaching. I play a lot against my brother, and most of the time RARed bair works fine. I know we ain't that pro, but still. Feedback?

 

[goodoldganon]

To discuss again, you have been saying that Ganon has troubles approaching. I play a lot against my brother, and most of the time RARed bair works fine. I know we ain't that pro, but still. Feedback?

It's a possible buff I'm looking into. Larger B-air.

 

[Rkey]

It's a possible buff I'm looking into. Larger B-air.

Do we really need to buff him? I think he's too good like it is, DPS anyone?

Edit: forgot to post that my brother hates his up-b. I you make sure it ends just by the edge, the darkness attack of the up-b hits anyone standing anywhere near the edge. I'm not kidding, the range is huge!

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Edit: forgot to post that my brother hates his up-b. I you make sure it ends just by the edge, the darkness attack of the up-b hits anyone standing anywhere near the edge. I'm not kidding, the range is huge!

yeah that last hitbox makes it tricky for unexperienced players to ledge/edge guard ganon.

 

[crazycrackers]

It's a possible buff I'm looking into. Larger B-air.

I think he could use this buff. It would make things easier for him.

 

[ZeonStar]

I DESTROY all my friends who I play Brawl + with (meaning those who refuse to play my melee Mewtwo). He's just got such rapetastic moves its amazing.
I pulled off a stomp -> USmash -> Fair combo the other day, and my friend refused to let me play Ganon. He's not all that great (my friend) but still he punishes HARD now.

Ive gotten that with alot of the B+ people I play online, since Ganondorf is so good at punishing people now, the noobs and scrubs, or anyone below your level of skill might be murdered pretty hard.

But still he has a hard time in fast paced high level play, I think he needs maybe a larger hitbox on b-air or added damage to his sideb on the ground, or at least the old gauranteed followup.

 

[Finns7]

I miss the guaranteed followup but in some ways I like how the player caught has options. I think giving the choke more damage is the way to go. I mean look at the freaking move it looks so badass........not really a good reason, but tech roll forward is usually always the best option.



Cmon now, picked up off the ground as dark magic breaks your soul and your slammed into the ground...... O_O

 

[ZeonStar]

I miss the guaranteed followup but in some ways I like how the player caught has options. I think giving the choke more damage is the way to go. I mean look at the freaking move it looks so badass........not really a good reason, but tech roll forward is usually always the best option.



Cmon now, picked up off the ground as dark magic breaks your soul and your slammed into the ground...... O_O

Thats a good enough reason in my book

 

[Rkey]

I Like the idea of decreasing winddown from an aerial landed side-b, right now it's so long I think u can rise-attack Ganon b4 he can do anything.

 

[Shell]

@Rkey: We just fixed that in the latest nightly build. He now has enough of a frame advantage to avoid counterattack.

@ZeonStar: Check out the Bair-in-progress in the nightly build. We're experiencing some difficulties shifting the hitboxes around, but they are 1.25x larger. Look for a more refined version in the future.

Check it out:
http://web.me.com/shane_mulligan/Brawl+_Nightly_Builds/LatestNightly.html

 

[rekrapadept]

Hey i have a question about Ganon in Brawl+. Is the double reverse warlock punch a glitch or is it supposed to be possible?