Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[JigglyZelda003]

theres also the chance he could have tossed a fireball and blown it up when she yanked it up

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Bomb is a horrible KO move, Peaches RARELY actually kill with it because it's easy to dodge.

 

[White-Peach]

and because it detonates so much easier in this game (be it standing still, or even in the "safety" of your own shield (()

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Marth can cancel the bomb with any of his aerials, this is fact and happened to me three times so far. He doesn't even have to time it very well using his neutral air.

 

[vato_break]

the match-up is in peaches advantage 55:45

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I actually dislike it when I pull bomb-ombs. Probably because Bomb-ombs cause more trouble for me than actually turn the tide of the battle.

 

[White-Peach]

for the bob-oms, i like to use the blast itself as the attack rather than the bomb. If you can aim for the ground near the other guy, all the better. (when they're in the air they're more defenseless, so just bait a reaction then boom :3)

 

[Dark_Meow1]

I glide toss without thinking alot, so you'll catch me glide tossing a bo-omb into someone's shield, and thus killing myself. But if I catch my pull it's really intimidating. I mean, it is a guaranteed KO after like 30 percent. So, I like it.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I should have moved on yesterday but I gave this another day...although it looks like it wasn't really worth it :/ I'll do the write up another time although it doesn't seem that both sides reached a complete conclusion with each other

I realise I'm very behind with the match ups but I have much more important things to do so this has to take a back seat I'm afraid. I'll do a write up if someone desperatly needs advice on a match up but we don't seem to be in any hurry

What should this thread be used for after we finish all the match ups btw? I'm making seperate topics for all the match ups now so...eh, discussion can still go in here I guess


Anyway, enough of that. Next up is Ganondorf

 

[Praxis]

Ganondorf is 70:30 Peach's favor. Maybe worse?

This is NOT just because "lolganondorfsucks". Heck, Peach probably has an equal matchup on MK as Ganondorf xD

I honestly believe she's one of his worst matchups. He has nothing to punish her dair OOS, much like ROB, so she can abuse it and infinitely pressure his shield forcing a roll which can be chased. In fact, he has virtually nothing to beat the dair if she spaces it above his dash attack- only backwards uair, which Peach can see coming a mile off, and gerudo rush, which she can simply nair to beat as he has to fullhop it first.

Peach won't approach with dair- Dair isn't an approach- but if she gets within his range, it's going to cause him a LOT of problems. But dair isn't all this matchup relies on.

I THINK Peach can CG him, can't remember...but he actually has a really hard time landing his attacks on her. Peach has a really easy time spacing away from all of Ganondorf's smashes and tilts- reverse uair is really the only thread. She can punish any approaches OOS and camp him with reverse glide toss endlessly thanks to his low run speed.

The best strategy here is for Peach to simply camp Ganondorf with reverse glide tosses and punish all his approaches OOS or with floated dairs.

The moment Ganondorf is offstage...one turnip hit is a kill. You can force him to lose distance avoiding the turnip, and float against the ledge and edgehog his side-B and up-B by releasing the float before he hits you. Just like Link- Ganondorf does NOT recover in this matchup.

 

[Airgemini]

Can any of our aerials hit him after his Up B?

Also, Ganon's moves packs a serious punch (watch out for his envied Dair).

 

[Praxis]

His moves are powerful, but Peach is uniquely suited to space to avoid them.

And I think nair?

 

[deepseadiva]

Can any of our aerials hit him after his Up B?

We can nair him... or something.

I'm not sure if it's the timing, our percent, or his percent, that lets us do it, but we can nair him after it.

Just not sure when.

 

[mountain_tiger]

IMO, it's 65:35 or 70:30 in Peach's favour. Peach ultimately has a lot of things going for her. For a start, since Ganondorf attacks so slowly, Peach can easily pressure him with her attacks, and there's not a whole lot he can do about it. Dair also causes major problems for him. Because of his weight, you can Dair twice on him before following up with the next hit. Peach has very little trouble comboing him.

And then there are her turnips. Essentially, if you use the turnips right, they can shut down almost any approach he has. Turnips also make great edgeguarding tools. Once he's off the stage, pull out two turnips, throw them, and if they both hit he should be out of bounds.

Ultimately, since most of Ganondorf's attacks are quite slow, generally you can use Toad when you see them coming and it should connect.

His only real threat is that if he does hit you, IT WILL HURT. So you have to keep pressuring him and make sure he doesn't get a hit on you. His Dair can potentially be a problem too. On the ground, UTilt will slice straight through it, but in the air it's much more potent. Still, if you learn to airdodge correctly it should be fine.

All in all, this matchup is strongly in Peach's favour; probably one of her easiest matches to fight really. If you know what you're doing, the Ganondorf player won't have many options open to them.

 

[PK-ow!]

I honestly believe she's one of his worst matchups.

No, no. We are one of your best - same as anyone else, pretty much - but Ganondorf deals with far, far, far far worse than the Peach.

And then there are her turnips. Essentially, if you use the turnips right, they can shut down almost any approach he has. Turnips also make great edgeguarding tools. Once he's off the stage, pull out two turnips, throw them, and if they both hit he should be out of bounds.

Ganondorf doesn't have an approach to begin with. <.< You're right about the turnip being **** for us offstage, though. It is inexorably a stock.


I can't say much else; I came here for these comments but Peach is an absolute mystery to me. I just want to caution that good Ganons are those who play a very patient, punishing game, and we basically don't attack unless it's a guaranteed hit, a uair, or a thunderstomp link. Occasionally a smash has ensured shield-push so we can do that.
EDIT: Oh, and perfectly spaced dtilts, but I don't think Peach will give us that opening...

Assume little about what we do, discuss more about how you can ever give us a chance to do something in the first place. Ganon in turn is concerned with defending himself, from your menagerie of float- and float-canceled doom options.

And don't underestimate the speed. We still have nair *uair* (and sure, nair too) in desperate straits.

I hope this discussion produces something for me to make sense of Peach in my own life.

 

[Squirrely]

Peach isn't such a bad fight compared to other match-ups for Ganon but it still can be incredibly annoying. For me, it's because Peach can float with her feet at Ganon's head-level and there's pretty much nothing we can do to stop the pain once she gets close enough to put a foot in our eye. You honestly have to either:
a) hit her before she gets there with an u-air, n-air or u-smash or
b) roll away asap to get the distance again until she comes down.
I wouldn't recommend f-air or aerial side-b since those are painfully easy to float away from and punish.
Also, Peach's u-air pretty much always trades hits with any of Ganon's moves, which is annoying but works out in Ganon's favor usually.

Turnips are only a hassle whilst recovering, but I've died many times to a well aimed turnip toss. I still think a well-timed dodge can get you through the turnip with enough distance to up-b the ledge. I also think that Peach doesn't have time to hog the edge before this after throwing the turnip from the gimping turnip toss zone, which is just far enough from the edge to barely bloop the turnip over the ledge. But the timing on the dodge is very tight. And of course she could always regular hog the ledge. Ganon does not have an easy time recovering against Peach.
Peach is also incredibly hard to stomp while recovering (umbrella > stomp) and nearly impossible to hog (umbrella > hogs). You pretty much have to kill her by exploding her off the screen in some direction, getting a good strong f-tilt angle that prevents reaching back with umbrella or stomping her before umbrella, which is tricky.

Back on stage, Peach's auto-canceled f-airs are also a large annoyance not only because they push Ganon away if he's shielding, but because she can immediately start doing her annoyingly good jab (think Yoshi) upon landing which is very good at slapping Ganon away.

F-airs and turnip gimps are what mainly kill me when I fight Peach. Tough to avoid and tough to punish.

Ganon has a guaranteed d-tilt on Peach after landing a side-b so that's fun. Pretty much all of Ganon's moves are very effective on Peach if he can catch her on the ground, but odds are that's not where she'll be if she's anywhere near you. She pretty much only dies horizontally vs. Ganon. His f-smash and f-tilt are very good at this.

Also Peach's u-tilt and u-smash knock Ganon out of stomp and up-b, which is a huge blow against Ganon.

Oh yeah and Peach has a d-throw chaingrab to some percent, not sure of the numbers but it's nothing big like Pikachu or IC's. Still a free chunk of Ganon's life gone if he gets grabbed in the low percents though.

Overall a layed-back match for Peach if she's good with her float spacing, f-air landing and turnip gimping.
Not such a bad match for Ganon if he can stay out of the blender of pain that is her feetand not get turnip gimped.

A fun match overall. Not nearly as frustrating as many of Ganon's other matches, but he still has to play smart to stay in the game.

My number is 60:40 Peach's favor

If any Peach would like to play, I can always use the practice >.>

 

[Praxis]

If any Peach would like to play, I can always use the practice >.>

Eww, Ganondorf on WiFi is a lot tougher than offline >_<

Turnips are only a hassle whilst recovering,

Heh. Ever been reverse glide tossed camped by a Peach?

 

[Koskinator]

Gerudo is useless in this matchup because Peach is constantly autofloating. Thunderstorming is useless for that same reason. So this forces us to play a very, veyr different game. Basically, there are 2 ways to effectively knock Peach out of autofloat.

Retreating tipmans.
Retreating SH Bairs

Use tipmans when shes autofloating with a turnip, use bair when there is no turnip. But other than that, we get *****. I'd rather play against MKs than Peachs,

 

[MoblinMan]

What koskinator said, basically. ^
The best Peach I've played is Meno by far, and I even got the pleasure of being beat in a tourney against him, too. Given that, I haven't faced a variety of Peach mainers, really.

I'm not sure if doing full hopped Nair to a buffered Double Jump is useful but I've had it work for me once or twice when she's floating at head level.


One thing I'm sure of though: The peach has to read/predict DI very well to get more than 2 strings of Dair hits off in a row. The matchup is a lot less frustrating when you learn to DI the "combo" starters. Everything else is really hard to get past, like glide tossing. I'll have to play a few more games against peach until I have more experienced paradigms though.


Meno!! :D

 

[Razmakazi]

if i c ppl di a dair they eat the uair and then a utilt but yea, if u do it well i think even ganon can jump out after di-ing the dair, idk though.

 

[Praxis]

A good Peach who faces good opponents will be used to DI chasing to still perform their combos, but yes, it significantly helps and reduces combos to 2-3 hits.

If you don't Smash DI Peach's dair, she can do Dair > Dair > Dair > Uair > Utilt guaranteed out of a dair on Ganondorf. 0_o so yeah, Smash DI that crap. XD

 

[MoblinMan]

How often do you guys Fair into shields with a jab followup btw? Effective, or no?

 

[White-Peach]

all the time, single jab or double jab. jab-grab. basically anything. I think i rotate:
1)Jab => gtfo if still shielding (insert possible turnip pull to camping here), use as bait
2)Jab-Jab => gtfo if still shielding (insert possible turnip pull to camping here), use as bait
3)Jab-Grab
4)Jab-stutter-stepFSmash to beat shieldgrab attempts and keep varying the timing
5)Jab-FTilt to Push away
6)Jab-DTilt for specific range Range

i use 1-4 most commonly, 5-6 more situational.

So to answer your question,
IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

tip from Zelda boards, if you see Fair coming don't block/spotdodge, just get away.

 

[Praxis]

How often do you guys Fair into shields with a jab followup btw? Effective, or no?

Absurdly effective. Every time I hit a shield with fair, if properly timed and autocancelled, the jab will be out two frames later. It's impossible to shieldgrab- the jab will hit you as the grab starts up. If you keep shielding, then the first hit of jab hits and I can roll away or grab you. And if you spotdodge, I just do both hits of jab and the second hits you.

If a fair hits, roll away, don't try to grab or spotdodge. Don't punish autocancelled fairs, you can't.

This annoys the CRAP out of Dedede's xD

 

[White-Peach]

Don't punish autocancelled fairs, you can't.

you can and you can't

just like messing with marth's FAir, you can alter the spacing by shield-stopping inside the effective range of FAir=>Slap and grab. Peach is just so tall, that her openings can vary. Diagram time!

(i'm hoping everyone can follow)

this is peach:

| <=head
| <=body (ooh~)
| <=legs (ooooh~)

the furthest you can space to still hit peach's shield is at her body (usually from a high angle), so you space for that to be unpunishable. so it looks like you attack from here:

|___
|__`
|

This would put your slaps just in range (they would be spaced)

However, if the defending player controls the spacing with shieldstopping during an approach you get a FAir that is here:
___
| `
|
|

This puts the attacking player at a disadvantage, because, even without powershielding, you can have grab armor augment your shieldgrab and nullify the slap follow-up. But, White-Peach, they wont have time to grab, the slap comes in at frame 2! Well, in ideal situations, yes. But the defending player just forced you to attack her shield way up high, absorbing the attack while you're further off the ground, giving more time to drop that shield and grab.

Shieldstopping like this is best with with tall characters or characters with really big shields (i dont think they're all the same.) Shorter characters cant do this, because they cant force aerial approaches to hit shields early, as they're so close to the ground already.

That being said, the timing is tight, but i really like it I use it with OOS rising NAirs and grabs.

 

[Praxis]

White-Peach, I meant if the Peach properly spaced the autocancel fair. If the Peach is fairing the top of the shield, then they're doing it wrong xD

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

White-Peach, I meant if the Peach properly spaced the autocancel fair. If the Peach is fairing the top of the shield, then they're doing it wrong xD

What I think he means is moving the shield or the character even a tad to try and throw off Peach's fair. Since Ganondorf is taller than Peach, it might be possible to do this, but they'd have to be VERY good at timing and control to move the shield in such short notice. It's an option, though it's not always the most reliable. I think if Peach hits the shield in that situation, she'd have enough time to get out of the way, or possibly do a fsmash to move her body backwards out of grab range. Not sure if it'd work, though, so someone should test it out when they get the chance(for the grab and the fsmash spacing).

 

[White-Peach]

Yeah, spacing controlled by the attacking player can only do so much. The defending player running in and shieldstopping to mess with the spacing and create an opening will "break" otherwise safe approaches. Peach's FAir>Slap is no exception to this. That being said, it becomes a mindgame as to whether the defending player shieldstops correctly, and if the attacker anticipates it and spaces accordingly. Factors like this make people who believe in absolutes ("my character has more range/priority than yours") unable to compensate for what you do, and ultimately weaken their game overall, because they cant adapt beyond absolutes.

By no means does this mean that FAir>Slap is weak, its just not perfectly safe. The plus side to this is that marth is subject to the same thing, and he's much, much more open when you effectively respace his attacks

 

[deepseadiva]

Meno!! :D

MOW-BLIN!! :D

I'm thinking the Ganon-Peach match-up is at least 60-40 Peach's favor.

Shield pressure on Ganon is probably the safest thing ever. What are his options once we're actually in? Does he have options at all...?

From mid-range though, uair is quick and scary. I've had problems dealing with it at first, but it seems punishable enough afterward. The thunderstomping is also one of my concerns in this match. Whenever Moblin catches me in it, me eating ~60% in tech chases isn't fun.

At least it gives me some practice in being "unreadable". None of that really is a problem though if you're playing carefully - it's the mistakes in this range that Peach really, really pays for.

From long range, Peach can camp him pretty darn well. I think if it came down to it, just run and pull turnips forever and you might just win with three fairs.

Realistically though, turnips give you just enough the perfect distraction to dash into death range, so camping isn't necessary anyway. I <3 Turnips.

 

[Villi]

I got us knocked out of a doubles match against CBK's DK for auto-canceling a stale fair on his shield and trying to jab. Grabbed me good. :/

Remember kids, frame advantage decreases the staler fair gets. Shield pushback, too. All bad.

PS

Factors like this make people who believe in absolutes ("my character has more range/priority than yours") unable to compensate for what you do, and ultimately weaken their game overall, because they cant adapt beyond absolutes.

Very insightful.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'll be changing the match up later today. Numbers would be cool people and anything else useful I could include in the eventual write up

We've only got one more match up to do *sniff*

 

[JigglyZelda003]

whos the last one?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

He's watching you

 

[Klemm]

There's a lot of pages to read through, so I didn't bother catching up. Sorry if what I post is old and established, just disregard it if it is.

On Wi-Fi I was fighting a Ganondorf today, we were on Pictochat. I found him incredibly easy. He was abusing his side special far too much (which I doubt a professional Ganon player would do), which left him open to a lot of punishment for Peach Bomber and a few Dair.

Seeming how his recovery is lacking, once he was off the edge it was simple to keep him at bay with a steady stream of turnips (I even managed to pluck a stitch-eye one of the times).

The only real problem I encountered with him (besides rolling into a warlock punch... I know, stupid move) was he Dair'd me and because Peach is oh-so vertically-challenged that was the end. He is hefty too, so it took some Fair and Bair maneuvers to KO him if the turnip-tossing wasn't working, but most of the time it did the trick.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

alot of times, in ganon vs peach battles, peach usually gimps me w/fair and dair does alot of damage on me

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Onto our final match up people! We've very nearly completed them all

So with out furthur ado, let's move onto Captain Falcon

-Captain Falcon-

Discussion: Posts 600-601


What to Watch out For:
-Air germs that might affect your eyes during gameplay

Matchup Mentality:
-Press A

Did you know?
-Yes I do!

Please feel free to add anything onto Dekuu's write up for the match up

 

[Canvasofgrey]

FALCON PUNCH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[deepseadiva]

I gotta say, this isn't the easiest match-up ever.

Granted I've only played good Falcon's a handful of times - but it's not Olimar.

 

[Morrigan]

Apparently, Olimar isn't the so-easy matchup it used to be. Olimar mains claim they "discovered" a way to get through Peach and "break" the big-advantage match-up outcome.

If I recall correctly, I heard an Olimar main say "Let them think they still have the big advantage " Or something along those lines.

Oh, and don't get too confident because it's Falcon, he may surprise you >_>