Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[deepseadiva]

No, I agree with the Olimars - just wanted to illustrate the point of it being "easy."

 

[Morrigan]

I know, I was just saying anyway because it caught my attention.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Falcon is definitly not a push over as some people would think

And I've never really understood how Peach ever has had an advantage of 70:30 on Olimar. I've always thought it was pretty extreme, considering Olimar is one of those match ups that Peach mains first have trouble with. Ok, so grabbing her is limited and her aerials go right through his Pikmin but that doesn't stop him being able to her much earlier and can't he Up + B through her aerials?

Olimar rediscussion will be up reasonably soon. Just need to get Snake and Mr. Game and Watch out the way first

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Falcon is interesting. its been a while since i fought a good one, but it felt around 55:45 peach. he moves so fast.

 

[Meru.]

I think it's higher than 55:45 in our advantage, actually.

Btw, aren't there more than 36 characters in the game? o.o (PT = 1 char)

 

[Morrigan]

The thread treated Sheik/Zelda and PT as one. So yeah, 36 weeks.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

As the same with any fighting game really, all the lower tiers begin to represent higher. I don't think Smash is any different. I mean, this isn't the first metagame phase of smash, where Metaknight was virtually unbeatable. Now, we have ways to fight back, and players discover ways to get around certain metagames, (Heck, even Ganon against Sheik isn't 95:5 anymore, or at least it doesn't feel like that anymore). So I'm a believer if Captain Falcon or any characters for that matter have their match-ups change against Peach from something very high to something more even.

Personally, I don't even see how Captain Falcon is the lowest tier in the game. I believe he has the tools to get back up on the listings. Probably just because Falcon players aren't playing hard enough. I guess...

Captain Falcon is fast, and despite his abysmal recovery, it actually isn't that horrible compared to say, Link or Ganon. >_>; Captain Falcon can land hits if he has the room to space, and with his speed, it actually isn't hard to reset the battle tension to zero. I don't need to say about Captain Falcon's power, since he does have the moves to land KOs and build damage. (This is assuming he can hit, or the player is skilled enough to land hits). His priority is probably one of his biggest glaring weaknesses.

60:40 favor por Peach, in my opinion. I suppose 65:35 maybe.

 

[Praxis]

80:20, maybe 70:30 Peach.
Edrees'll explain, he fights arguably the best Falcon, Champ.

Falcon doesn't have the priority to get past any of Peach's moves. His recovery can be gimped, he can't really gimp her well, he doesn't have a projectile, he doesn't have the priority to get through to her, his kill moves have a hard time hitting a floating target (good luck with fsmash/dsmash/knee/Falcon Punch), he's not very heavy...

 

[_clinton]

Hey Peach mains...please chat in this thread about what Peach has to bring to the table in a single fight vs. Ness and how Ness might be able to counter it please...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229697

Thank you...again this match isn't what +s Ness may have on Peach...it is just going to talk about Peach's +s and how Ness could fight vs. them...

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think i've 3 stocked every falcon player I've ever faced in tourney,in at least in one of our matches. And these aren't bad falcon players, these are falcons who were beating other good players. This is probably Peach's easiest match up. It's HEAVILY, HEAVILY in her favor. I'd say 70-30 in Peach's favor.

This is mostly for 3 reasons.

-Falcon's weight is perfect for Peach combos. Even with smash DI it's hard for him toe scape dair, and you can chain grab him for a lot and finish it with several moves like up tilt up air or even f-smash at some percents (which combos into something else)

-Edgeguarding: It's very easy to control his recovery. Just throw a turnip where you DONT want him recovering and then follow his recovery and attack it. Or edgehog if the turnip hits.

-Peach's moves pretty much all have priority over all of his moves. You can n-air spam to avoid almost ANY string of consecutive hits he can try to muster on you.

If you just stand there and back air any of his apprpoaches, he really can't approach you. Just jump and back air and retreat while you do it, it's a wall of defense he can't really break. But actually you want to play aggressive in this matchup (rare in brawl) because he's going to get overwhelmed by your priority. The closer you are and the more you rush him the better.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so this is the matchup where you can go into a blood frenzy of sorts?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Well you still have to rush smart. You can't just do whatever. You have to play smart but you have to play smart aggressively. Actually you don't *have to* I just think it makes it easier, you really have the versatility to play defensively as usual too. Play your normal way, but if you ever find yourself down or having trouble, try going aggressive and see what happens.

 

[Villi]

Falcon is too manly to resist Peach's bairs. SIT ON MY FACE. Ha-CHAA!

 

[mountain_tiger]

IMO, this is about 65-35 in Peach's favour. For a start, Peach's priority is MUCH better than Falcon's (no surprises there). Hell, even our neutral A slap can cut straight through most of his moves. Essentially, if you keep doing Nair and Bair, it severely limits approach options, if not completely crippling them.

But it doesn't end there. Because he's heavy and falls quickly, he's also pretty easy to chaingrab and Dair combo, so that's another advantage for us. And of course his recovery is also predictable and easy to gimp. with turnips. However, one thing to watch out for. If you let yoru guard down and he does manage to hit you, it will hurt. Badly.

All in all, this match is definitely to Peach's advantage. Then agin, it's Craptain Failcon. Did you expect anything less? :

 

[Wogrim]

I think i've 3 stocked every falcon player I've ever faced in tourney,in at least in one of our matches. And these aren't bad falcon players, these are falcons who were beating other good players. This is probably Peach's easiest match up. It's HEAVILY, HEAVILY in her favor. I'd say 70-30 in Peach's favor.

This is mostly for 3 reasons.

-Falcon's weight is perfect for Peach combos. Even with smash DI it's hard for him toe scape dair, and you can chain grab him for a lot and finish it with several moves like up tilt up air or even f-smash at some percents (which combos into something else)

-Edgeguarding: It's very easy to control his recovery. Just throw a turnip where you DONT want him recovering and then follow his recovery and attack it. Or edgehog if the turnip hits.

-Peach's moves pretty much all have priority over all of his moves. You can n-air spam to avoid almost ANY string of consecutive hits he can try to muster on you.

If you just stand there and back air any of his apprpoaches, he really can't approach you. Just jump and back air and retreat while you do it, it's a wall of defense he can't really break. But actually you want to play aggressive in this matchup (rare in brawl) because he's going to get overwhelmed by your priority. The closer you are and the more you rush him the better.

NAir spam isn't that good of an idea. We know what does and doesn't combo, so we often bait any attempts to avoid a 'combo', particularly airdodges on most characters but sometimes attacks like this NAir of yours. I find the combos to be the most troublesome.

The BAir also sounds like a bad idea, althogh I've never played someone who's done that.

 

[Praxis]

The BAir also sounds like a bad idea, althogh I've never played someone who's done that.

Believe me, it works. It's how we shut down Wario and even Marth sometimes.
Edrees plays with Champ regularly.

 

[Sky`]

I swear to god, this isn't as easy as it might sounds. >_<

 

[deepseadiva]

OH SHI-

Sky's purple.

 

[Sky`]

Meno.
We're going to try to keep this about C.Falcon.
Please stay on topic, or you will be referred to a Moderator for further infractions.


In other news, I love you. <3

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

It's Captain Falcon...do we really need discusison?

Lol joking

Don't really know a huge amount about Falcon apart from 4 player FFA's but I'm surprised nothing has been mentioned about his Uair and Up Tilt. Those moves are pretty good to say everyone thinks he's one of the worst characters in Brawl

 

[Airgemini]

WHERE'S ALL THE CF PLAYERS?!?!?!
Rick notify them or something

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hey hey hey, I posted the link to the thread in their match up thread >< It's not my fault if they don't post here

And from what I've heard, the Falcon's Boards currently have a few things they need to take care of in their own boards

I make an effort to post something in the other character's match up thread so that we get opinions from the other side. If I'm not happy with the information or feel that things have been very one sided, I won't do the write up

 

[deepseadiva]

I just made an export for some mo' visibility.

Why do people consider him the worst character in the game?

I'd put Ganondorf below him actually.

 

[Airgemini]

Apparently because of his crappy priority, and lack of approach options.

 

[Player-3]

I just made an export for some mo' visibility.

Why do people consider him the worst character in the game?

I'd put Ganondorf below him actually.

id put him above ganon too

Apparently because of his crappy priority, and lack of approach options.

mainly the lack of approach
_______________________________________


Peach.. ive only played once or twice, and that was a while ago

Uuuuuh...

my guess would be 65:45 or 70:30, its pretty bad for falcon

turnips projectiles are..

i dont have much matchup expierience, but thats my guess..
maybe someone else has more

 

[t3h n00b]

I don't play any good Peaches, but I'm a Falcon main, so I guess I'll just say our main moves and all. On the ground, if you are within jab range, a good Falcon will jab you. I know that Peach's jab is frame 2 as well, but I think if they clank, Falcon's will hit the second time if both players were expecting that, not positive though. But anyway, Falcon's ground game revolves a lot on jab canceling into grabs, or jabbing into safe followups (tilts, dsmash) that can't be shield grabbed, or with certain [lack of] DI, not escaped.

Falcon's tilts are decent, but not great. I like using ftilt to space and to mess with dash-happy people, and utilt is good too, it has great knockback for a tilt that isn't Snake's, but still isn't going to be killing above 150% much unless you're at the edge or something. Utilt has great range as well, sweeping over Falcon's head, but has some lag before and afterwards.

In the air, Falcon will be using uair a lot whenever it is in range, which is pretty much anything that isn't under him. The move is fast, has great range, and decent knockback, but it will likely not be used for killing because it should be stale, it can kill maybe at 150% unused though. Bair is a great move as well, it can kill around 110/120% horizontally when sweetspotted (far easier than the knee), is one of Falcon's few moves with priority, and is a decent approach or spacing move.

I know Peach's game is about shield pressure and well-spaced aerials, but I haven't played any good Peaches with Falcon. I have, however, played a bad Peach with Falcon, and there wasn't a whole lot I could do against her. I'd say 70-30, it is hard for Falcon to get hits if the Peach spaces correctly, but turnips don't really mess with him at all, except for his recovery, which they can destroy.

Edit: 70-30 in Peach's favor, if I didn't make it clear.

 

[Winnar]

Falcon player here! :D

This is definitely in Peach's favor, though. U-air spam is very difficult if not impossible as Falcon because of Peach's d-air, which is a pretty large amount of Falcon's game gone right there.

Peaches, mostly just watch out for n-air and b-air. N-air will come out fast right out of the jump, b-air will come out at the end of a jump when I jump behind you.

You can pretty much just get above Falcon's dash attack level and spam d-air and that's the end of his ground game.

So yeah, all Falcon really has are RAR'd b-airs and n-airs for approach, as well as jumping way above you and using a fast falled cross up b-air.

Just be patient and cautious and you're pretty much guaranteed to win <<

Oh, and turnips. Turnips are good if you use them safely. Falcon is faster than you might think so be careful when pulling them out >.>

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Darn, another matchup I have no experience in.

Falcon's good moves: Bair, Nair, Utilt
Moves that would work if peach wasn't so awesome: Uair, sliding shield grab, jab
Moves that if you see from a falcon, you know they suck: Approaching with knee, falcon kick

Just my 2 cents

 

[Winnar]

Darn, another matchup I have no experience in.

Falcon's good moves: Bair, Nair, Utilt
Moves that would work if peach wasn't so awesome: Uair, sliding shield grab, jab
Moves that if you see from a falcon, you know they suck: Approaching with knee, falcon kick

Just my 2 cents

Falcon kick is amazing once in a while if you stay on ground level. That's what I meant by the stay above dash attack range thing. You avoid all sorts of things and can punish like crazy.

 

[Ayaz18]

K

when Niko and I were in our Prime of Brawl we played this match-up ALOT

I'm pretty much the best and most consistant placing Falcon to date. Never got first though. Wreck MKs like there nothing.

I know what I'm talking about.


Anyways I conclude that this match-up is 70:30

reason is because Dair combo's Falcon who is still considered a fast faller REALLY well. Her Nair as an edgeguard is pretty **** and her Z-drop turnip to Dair is way too good. This isn't to say Falcon can't win this match-up but it requires Falcon to keep peach in the air.

Falcon can easily win if he always has peach in the air, her AD sucks and Uair cuts through her bloody Dair. Also floating as an approach is not very effective against Falcon......if Falcon is fast enough he WILL knee you. His AC knee sweetspots against a floating peach........ if you're leading into a float then it's fine, but remember that there is a risk.

But Peach players know that Peach is weak in the air so they avoid this at all costs.

Watch out for jabs.........they can stop you in your tracks..........pretty much Falcon's best move

 

[eRonin]

Hmmh, my sister mains Peach and I main Captain Falcon, so I play this match-up quite a lot.

I don't know if many Peaches do this but my sister usually tries to b-reverse Toad when someone is about to gimp her off-stage. Doesn't work with Falcon, though, as Falcon dive cuts right through it.

I think apart from Peach's dair, Falcon Dive is a pretty effective move against Peach.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I somehow managed to find a vid of me doing the matchup with champ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL8czmdOAr4

it's old and before i really udnerstood peach.. and we were mostly messing around in friendlies, but it just goes to show how effective being aggressive is. notice he can't handle it when i go aggressive but when he has space its starts to go more even.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Technically, the match up is supposed to change today...

...so we're done All the match ups in Brawl have been discussed Let's hear it for us!


So, when all the write ups are done (they will be eventually I promise - I'm very busy atm), or even whilst we wait for them to be done, what shall we use this thread for? To go over some match ups that we didn't reach a proper conclusion for?

I know that there were definitly some issues surrounding:

Ness
Lucas
Mario(?)
Samus(?)
Ganondorf(?)

Have I missed anyone out?


Edit: Oh yea I forgot - is Falcon 70/30 Peach's favour? Ayaz pretty much said stuff I wanted to say but better xD I agree with his info

 

[Dark.Pch]

Since this is done. I say we could use this thread as an official Peach match up discussing about any character at anytime.

And I still have to right up the Peach dittos, dang I just remembered that

 

[Cia]

Squirtle is Broken vs Peach.

 

[Razmakazi]

not even, imo.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I'm sure Edreeses can clarify anything about Ness. If we're still iffy on Pokemon Trainer, I can shed some light on the subject.

 

[Razmakazi]

idk...we were already doing match-up rediscussions...i guess we cud just start from the beginning w/ the match-up discussions 'cept instead of weekly just use like 2-3 days to just kinda breeze through it unless it's a bad match-up for us.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Or be pointless and talk about Peach's next placement in the June list.

Doesn't really matter to me.

 

[Dark.Pch]

2 Things I noticed this morning while I play a CPU lv9 Peach as Snake and ZSS

Snake- If Snake does the first part of the Ftilt you to an uptilt, When you get hit with the Ftilt, you can power shield the Uptilt. I was trying to do this combo to her and she always just powershield the Uptilt. Of course this wont work if it makes you trip.

I also think this can be done with his jabs to tilts. unless I messed this up Peach would powershield then grab me or Nair. I am not sure on this one but what I said above works. And the coll down time on his uptilt makes it easy to punish him.

ZSS- When I did a F-B,and Peach ground floated,she just went throug it and hit me with a Fair. When ZSS F-B is extended, you can go inbetween it and hit her. You dont take any damage for the hit Box is not there. I assume it is on the front of the attack. So does not explain how she went though it when I dished out the attack. Unless the hitbox of that moves is not out as soon as ZSS does the attack. I have to check that out. But Peach ground floated to me and Fair me when I did my F-B un touched.