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Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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And Dark, you know, you don't have to win or judge your ability to play off of how you place. I just play to have fun. It's disappointing to lose, but I wouldn't quit if I wasn't winning.

Besides, lol, your version of "failure" is usually placing higher than most people's version of "doing well". xD
Lol xD

Guys, when a discussion is nearing it's end, I need agreed match up numbers otherwise I can't put them in. I don't want to put ones in and then have someone yell at me because they're wrong

Also, Peach's 2nd jump is really helpful for spacing aerials vs Luigi due to his poor horizontal movement speed
 

JigglyZelda003

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i do remember seeing a 55:45, but i'm not sure whos favor, im just saying weegees cause i tend to have a bit more trouble w/ it.

and i'd like an oli rediscussion since i never fight good ones
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I still have Falco, ROB and Snake at the top of the rediscussion list. I'll let people know who'll be up next when we get onto the last of those 3

Been a bit dead on these boards recently. I don't know what to put Luigi at since the Luig mains...disappeared :( Come back guys, we aren't scary

Let's just go with Ike and any other characters can be discussed here as well if something's up
 

Nidtendofreak

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Um for Ike VS Peach, I believe in the last time this was discussed, it was decided it was even. Not 100% sure if it was 50-50 or 55-45 in someone's favor. However, since we last discussed it, we discovered that Ike has a DACIT which is amazing and can be used with Peach's various items that she grabs from her Down B, and that at a certain % range (20% - 100% IIRC), B-throw -> Dash Attack is a true combo on Peach.

Here is what we have from last time:

Princess Peach is quite a lucky character. In Melee she was considered to be one of the best, similar in position to Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff. Unlike some of her Melee contemporaries, she didn't get nerfed to a bottom or low tier position. Nay, she has managed to still be good, due to the base effectiveness of her character. She prides herself on being an aerial master, able to float around at will. From there, she can launch a myriad of moves in succession, able to daunt many from entering the air.

Peach has no real defining moment in the match against Ike. She’s not Dedede who has a chaingrab, she’s not Pit with his arrows and she most certainly isn’t Snake with his great grenades. Her moments stem from the fact that she has so many interesting things that she can do to you, several tricks that rack up damage, kill and in general add up to be a good character.

Let’s begin by talking about Princess Peach’s turnips. She can quickly pick these up from the ground with a down B and then just toss them at you. She’ll generally glide toss them for a good distance. They aren’t super high on range, so she can’t begin to use them from across the map. These are a nuisance and deal some damage and flinching you. I suggest being able to catch the ones she throws at you, or otherwise shielding it, it won’t hurt the shield too much. She might attempt to toss them at you to ruin your recovery attempts, so beware. If she pulls out a stoned looking turnip with stitches, beware. This deals very high damage and has amazing kill power. She can also pull out a Mr. Saturn, a Bom-omb or a Beam Sword. Mr Saturn instantly breaks your shield if it hits you, the bomb KOs at like 60% and the sword gives her Ike’s range. The sword has ½ the range of a normal beam sword, but she can stop this by taunting or using her up B.

Peach’s main form of threat is her Down Aerial at low percents. This pressures shields like no other. To avoid this, angle your shield upward as much as you can. If she hits you while floating, she will often follow it up with another down Aerial and top it off with an Up Aerial for massive damage. No, seriously, it hurts. Your best bet is to DI this if you get his, but of course not getting hit at all is the best course of action! The rest of her Aerial game is certainly good enough for causing damage as well. The Nair is very fast and the Bair has decent range, the Up Air is fast as well.

Her grab game is pretty decent, albeit short ranged. Her Down Throw will be followed up on by a grab at 0%, so look out for grabs at low percents. Her other throws might be used in order to either get you off of the edge, or into the air, where she will attempt to hurt you. She might get a grab on you by using a jab (Which is just as fast as yours) and then dash grabbing.

Remember in the Marth match-up how using Aether and Marth countering would result in a pretty easy gimp on Ike? Peach can do more or less the same thing with her Toad counter. As with the Marth match, either recover low or do a reverse Aether so that you don’t hit Peach and then toad, as that will result in a stock loss most likely. You might try to use Quick Draw if the spores send you upward, however.

In Melee, Peach’s Down Smash was a very frightening thing indeed. It was capable of causing very high damage in a single use, and was quite fast! It’s been toned down a bit since then, it now only sends you on the other side of Peach with not nearly as much damage. It’s still fast, so she can pull one out to punish you. Ftilt can be using to punish a laggy attack in the exact same way. The Fsmash is too unpredictable to count on, but it either has high range lowish power, middle or the pan with low range and it sends you straight up. Her Up Smash is very powerful when sweetspotted, killing at 100% or so. The problem here is, good luck sweetspotting that.

Her other kill move is the much loved Fair, which occurs when she hits you with her crown,. This has good range, good power and can be used to gimp you as well. Her Side B, the Peach Bomber, has about enough time for you to get a soda, drink it and counter, but if it’s an extra large Dr. Pepper you might not make it in time to counter.

To deal damage to Peach, you must realize that she will be floating a good majority of the time. As such, you need to realize how to get her out of that state. A running Back Aerial or a Forward Aerial will knock her out of there, and eventually she’ll stop attempting that. Don’t be hesitant to counter in this match, seeing as how some of her attacks have some predictability to them. If she decided to go up high, bring her down with Aether for good damage and possibly a spike. Your jabs are, as always, very useful. Do be warned, however, that hers are just as fast, so you might want to shield if your jabs cancel each other out.

If you’re up to killing Peach, you’ll probably try either edgeguarding with Eruption, whose long charge time beats out Peach’s floatiness, Ftilt which can outrange her vastly and kill early, Up Smash to get her airdodges or just go for a spike, that always works. Peach is a light character, so against Ike it really doesn’t take too much. If you haven’t been using the Bair to get her out of the float state, go ahead and use that to kill her. As Peach doesn’t have anything especially fearsome to worry, go ahead and go for BF as your neutral of choice and then go with Corneria / Green Greens, depending on which one she bans. I’m sure you know by know how to take advantage of that stage. I recommend you avoid Rainbow Cruise, as she can exploit her great air game there.

Peach and Ike are more or less complete opposites, with the other having what the other lacks. As such, you’ll be trying to capitalize on the things that you have more than ever, especially your range and power. Being able to do this and avoid Peach’s good traits will serve you well.
 

Airgemini

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They both balance each other out. What one has, the other one doesn't.

Definately play defensive or suffer from Ike's Fair. Camp with Turnips to make him approach, Toad his recovery if you have the chance.

I'm still leaning towards even on this, maaaaaybe 55-45 Peach because she has a projectile.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Jumping forward, then using your double jump to float backwards completely destroys Ike. It's one of those Niko advanced techniques he had in his thread but in the air. Basically you are jumping forward at him and the momentum of your second jump is used to go into your float. It's good because Ike's like to jump backwards and aerial or double jump backwards and aerial anytime you approach to get you for it and this punishes him for that. IMO it's 55-45 or 60-40 to Peach. Reverse glide toss camping is pretty effective too.
 

JigglyZelda003

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this is one of those matchs where im willing to camp like mad.

can Fair beat an aerial quickdraw? i never tried it since other than some random online ikes the only one i fight offline isn't very good
 

hiROI

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Against my friends Ike, I play extremely defensive. I say 55-45 Peach because of her light weight. The turnips help a lot, and use toad whenever Ike is under the stage. This will take out stocks. Is Ike's counter slower than Marth's?
 

Nidtendofreak

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this is one of those matchs where im willing to camp like mad.

can Fair beat an aerial quickdraw? i never tried it since other than some random online ikes the only one i fight offline isn't very good
Why the heck would an Ike be using QD? Thats as crazy as an MK trying to use his jab to rack up damage in the middle of FD. >_>

You have to be careful with the turnips. I'm fairly sure that an Ike sliding across the stage doing Usmash thanks to the DACIT would be dangerous.

Yes, Ike's counter is the slowest to start up, but it's also the quickest to end. Ike's Start up time is Marth's cool down time, and vise versa. And nobody care's about Lucario's counter. XD

As for that double jump float thingy Edrees talked about, can it go fast enough to get past a retreating Fair from Ike? Ike's fair has killer IASA frames on landing, the only people I can think of off the top of my head that can punish Ike for it without using a projectile are Sheik visa DACUS, and Sonic/Captain Falcon due to their running speed. Maybe Wario using his Dair. If it can, we'd just stick to ACing Bairs and Nairs. Nothing to punish that way.




You guys should also probably let the other Ikes know, I only saw this because I was poking around this board earlier and saw the topic title.
 
D

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I play both of these characters. this match is even, but peach should probably win.

55/45.
 

gantrain05

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As for that double jump float thingy Edrees talked about, can it go fast enough to get past a retreating Fair from Ike? Ike's fair has killer IASA frames on landing, the only people I can think of off the top of my head that can punish Ike for it without using a projectile are Sheik visa DACUS, and Sonic/Captain Falcon due to their running speed. Maybe Wario using his Dair. If it can, we'd just stick to ACing Bairs and Nairs. Nothing to punish that way.
.
actuall yes it can get to ike, basically because of her float, she can instantly change her momentum in midair. so she can jump forward at ike to bait out the Fair and DJ Fair ike as he whiffs.
 

Canvasofgrey

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Ike is pretty much 50-50 or 55-45 favor por Peach.

Ike is slow. Slower than Charizard *By terms of airspeed, laggy moves, etc* Pretty much the "Slow but Long range" thing works for Ike, so you have to out maneuver him without running into his sword.

Taken from a previous post I did on Marth

Adding to Sinking's speech about Marth's bubbles. (I call them Zone of Vulnerability since everyone has one). All of the sword characters have two Zones of vulnerability. One outside their range, and inside the arm of their swing. Inside the swing of the sword, a character can actually walk into them, as as they swing their sword, they tend to lurch forward, causing you to shift behind them, and leaving them open for attack. Of course, this depends on the character. Link, Marth, and Ike are the ideal kind of characters to do this on since they move forward the most, while Meta Knight and Toon Link hardly move at all, making their inner zone of vulnerability quite smaller than the other characters.
I find this to be very true when it comes to Ike since he tends to reach out a lot when he's swinging his sword. Peach can punish him very well with her attacks, and that's usually how I go since I can't be aggressive with Ike (Else I eat a jab combo). Peach portrays a 'glass cannon' in this match-up I think. She can do damage to Ike really well. But if she gets hit, she's pretty much shattered.
 

Sky`

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Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise


60-40, our Favor. :3

The difficulty is getting Ike off Stage... but seeing as he's one of the easiest characters to gimp, it's no question that after one Dair combo that's difficult to Smash DI out of, he could potentially Die.

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDD!​


Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
 

deepseadiva

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I easily call it at 60-40 Peach.

Ike punishes like, hard. But if you make only minimal mistakes, you ****.

JigglyZelda003 said:
can Fair beat an aerial quickdraw?
I'd also like the answer to this. He'd use it as recovery...?

I also love Toad in this match-up - he's ridicoulous. xD
 

gantrain05

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quick draw as a recovery? i think a few times my friend playing as ike has used it and i don't think Fair BEATS it strait out, but i think you can trade hits if you time your Fair right, same goes with Bair.
 

chandy

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Basically use jump and turnips when Ike comes in with an aerial. Use toad when ike uses a smash. This match up is probably one of the best to pull out toads.
Peach has this match up but you've always got to be on your guard for one of those deadly smashes. 60-40 IMO due to peach's light weight which makes her vunerable but you still have much advantage.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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^You sound like Rickerdy^
:<

Toad is very useful because of Ike's Up + B - Use Toad just before he throws his sword up and he'll get a counter in his face which is pretty nice

Peach and Ike are...pretty much opposite of each other. He's male, she's female. He has no projectile, she has one. He has insane kill power, she has rather poor kill power. His counter is an attack whilst hers fires projectiles. He has crazy range, she doesn't. In short, they're very much opposites of each other

Like Marth, Ike can keep out from doing predictable Floating Dairs with his very long range Fair. Don't start up a Float unless you're very close to Ike and even then, be careful. You'll probably find yourself using a lot of Turnips in this match because Ike's Fair doesn't have as much landing lag as you'd expect and his Nair/Bair don't really have any either. Still, he's fairly heavy and doesn't have a projectile. He's also got pretty poor recovery as well

His jab is ridiculously annoying and some Ike's like to throw some grabs/grab release junk in to throw you off. If they're trying to grab release you into jabbing you, spam your jab as I think it's faster(?)

Toad is useful but don't get predictable. Ike hits very very hard. By all means use it to stop Aether and really obvious Fairs. And watch out for Ike's Eruption as it has SA frames. His Dair/D Tilt is also a spike
 

gantrain05

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you can Dtilt Ike when he tries to Up B back to the ledge too, and if u space it well it can spike them, i learned this after repeatedly Ftilting ikes offstage with DK when they tried to recover with ether, so i tried it with peach's Dtilt and it does work.
 

Villi

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Don't forget that you can just airdodge the hit of his over b recovery and he'll fall where he let his attack out.

Also, I know that when I play Ike, I either reverse my up b so it can't be countered or aim it so the hitbox is at the sweetspot where it can't be countered.

I think Peach can up b through his super armor and grab the ledge before Ike can. I've done it before. The spacing is pretty crucial though.
 

akkon888

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Alright, lets see.

I don't know a lot about Peach, can you tell me some of the moves that you guys regard as good/brilliant?

All I can say right now is that Ike's F-Air outranges everything you have (besides projectile) Eruption has a super armor duration, as well as aether. F-Tilt can kill Peach at 80% I believe. I have no idea about the knockbacks of your attacks, please give me some info on general stuff about Peach.
 

deepseadiva

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I have no idea about the knockbacks of your attacks, please give me some info on general stuff about Peach.
That's kinda'va broad subject. Do you play online Akkon?

We could prolly play some matches tomorrow, if not with some other Peaches.

Oh, Rick, I cleaned up your awesome Nana. ^^
 
D

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ike vs peach is weird. usually ike loses when he can't attack his opponent. peach is no exception to this, but she does it differently than shielding and spamming. peach essentially wants to attack all the freaking time with float aerials because she can attack faster by layering attacks than ike can outright. In essence, Ike never gets to start his attacks, as he will get stunned out of their start-up time. Since Peach won't be in front of ike, his jabs/grabs (fastest attacks) are heavily nullified.

on the flip side, peach has extremely minimal defense vs ike's longe range, and her poor air dodge and falling speed make her a hideous victim to falling upair (she literally can't avoid it).

so why do I put this match @ 55/45? The primary reason is that in most cases, peach doesn't have to challenge ike's attacks to land. She can simply fall away from ike and off the stage and up B to the edge with almost no risk at all. ike is also not that heavy compared to what most people expect, so peach won't have a difficult time killing him around 150% ish, where ike will be unable to kill peach until a higher % unless she clearly messes up and basically let's ike hit her, since she can choose not to let ike attack via her own attacks. in essence, peach *should* outlive ike through smart aggression.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Go go guys. Hopefully some of you have some good Mario experience out there :)

Lol nice Meno. Did you do that on photoshop or something? I did mine on Paint so yea D: I'll use that one since it looks cleaner :) Thanks

Against Ike, I like to use OoS Turnips or Glide Tossed OoS Turnips to punish his aerials
 

Chis

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Is it just me or are the opinions here leading to one side? What could it be?

No offence, but could you get more Ikes here?

Meh, input.

Toad wont work if Ike reverses him Aether. Eruption out lasts floating and Fair is good off stages, etc, etc, etc.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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There's been a thread posted on the Ike Boards to come and help us discuss this match up. It's already been discussed over there...if they don't come and visit, there's not much else we can do :/

Also, if I don't get sufficient discussion or input from either side or not clear numbers, I won't do a final write up which is what I've done for Ness, Lucas and Luigi and some others I think
 

Nidtendofreak

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I think part of the problem is that people are starting to leave Ike. Ryko now mains Snake and only playing casually, Ussi now mains Pikachu but still uses Ike, another guy has stopped using Ike, Kirk isn't posting much lately....I'll see if I can get some more over here.
 

Ussi

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I can't contribute because my peach experience is against melee peach (Cactuar) All he does is fair > jab, dair > dair > uair > utilt and float > bair > land repeatedly very fast. How does Peach's butt have two hitboxes. One for each cheek?

Peach has pretty nonpunishable aerials. and Toad screws with recovery if Ike can't reverse aether.
 

Canvasofgrey

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Hahahahahahaa...

You made my day, Ussi. Thank you.

The thing about Peach's Bair though is that the first hitbox is when she thrusts her butt outward. The second hitbox is the lingering hitbox that stays out as Peach's Butt is still at it's fullest jurt.

That was hard to explain really. >_>
 
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