Peach Tactical GD

[Eddie G]

Simultaneous airdodge/drop turnips more (a la Toon Link bomb ******ry). Especially vs shuttle loop or as a possible "I'm going to land on the other side and the turnip will knock you into me for a free whatever" mixup.

 

[LanceStern]

So I think people already knew of this chain grab... but I have been using it in competitive matchups and it nets me about 0 - 50% and up everytime.

Dthrow chain grab x3 usually -> bair -> ftilt -> read their air dodge or reaction and punish.

It works on just about every character that can be chain grabbed, and it really helps level out the pesky (but fun) falco matchup. Cool thing is falcos usually panic and try to phantasm away after the ftilt. This usually puts them in a position to get hit again. Is this 2008 metagame? I really like it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I did this to someone on wifi yesterday. Dair>Nair>>Nair>Dtilt> uairs. I do it without the chain grab. Cause there is times when you can't always get a grab. And you just land moves.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Is the glide toss stitch to down tilt always a shield breaker?

 

[z00ted]

i don't think it works if the shield is 100% full but if it's around 80% and you glide toss -> dthrow it works almost every time.

 

[deepseadiva]

I kinda wanna investigate stitchies more - they have the weird properties of having both a hurtbox and lazer priority, which I think we could be abusing more.

I'd be cool if we could get a hack to only get stitchies and other specific faces. That'd make looking into them sooo much easier.

 

[ADHD]

Get at this STELLAR peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ug1Jwa54g&t

Balloon points for extra style.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Lmfao at laser.

 

[Razmakazi]

@ill

so now ya'll n`ggas listen. i've been tellin' ya'll the uair string is rapely for a thousand forevers and whenever you think you've dropped the string just move outta the way and dair their landing into more uairs lol. you can do it on mk but he's small and has nair so it's easier to mess up so i agree about just doin' utilt on his *** when ya know ya messed up.

hmm...and i think bair lock is still good. edge-slip bair lock reset into whatever isn't all that hard to do just like when falco's bair ppl off platforms into laser lock. when the opportunity is there, go for it, it's not all that hard or intensely situational anymore.

@KB

the technical term is 'dodge dropping'!

@lance

falco isn't even that bad though coz he leaves a lot of opportunities for dash atk and for bombers when he's shooting at you. i wonder if the bair is guaranteed after the 3rd dthrow though, i don't think so but it would be a good mix-up coz that's such a strong move so i gotta try it out more.

 

[Eddie G]

@KB

the technical term is 'dodge dropping'!

Yeah, that. Everybody do it more.

I was playing some friendlies with my buddy's Marth the other day and experimenting with it in the middle of being pressured. At times I would use it as a mix up or means of escape. However, when I got him at around 80-100%, I also used it as a setup for an easy u-smash.

When she's in between her short hop and full hop length and drifting forward, perform the drop above the opponent (try and at least hit them on the opposite side of where you're going to land so as to knock them in your direction), land, and u-smash immediately. Bam. Free kill if you get it set up. It's similar to how you toss a turnip upward and wait on the other side to land an u-smash when you break someone's shield.

Other alternatives upon landing include: grab, jab, or groundfloat anything (for when they're not quite at kill percent yet but you still score the setup). F-smash usually still gets shielded/powershielded so I consider it too slow as a useful followup for it.

 

[LanceStern]

video pl0x?

 

[Metatitan]

video pl0x?

Do it yourself in training mode, it's not hard. Airdodge with a turnip in hand and press A right after really quickly (almost at the same time).

 

[Meru.]

F-smash usually still gets shielded/powershielded so I consider it too slow as a useful followup for it.

Usmash is only one frame faster than Fsmash.

 

[deepseadiva]

video pl0x?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ByPwv8XydE

 

[Eddie G]

Usmash is only one frame faster than Fsmash.

Indeed. But do you want a kill, or a gamble attack for damage when you could just groundfloat a three frame nair for the same purpose?

Never underestimate the power of a single frame my friend: MK's front end d-smash > Peach d-smash by one frame, Peach's jab > Ike's jab by one frame, etc.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Yeah, that. Everybody do it more.

I was playing some friendlies with my buddy's Marth the other day and experimenting with it in the middle of being pressured. At times I would use it as a mix up or means of escape. However, when I got him at around 80-100%, I also used it as a setup for an easy u-smash.

When she's in between her short hop and full hop length and drifting forward, perform the drop above the opponent (try and at least hit them on the opposite side of where you're going to land so as to knock them in your direction), land, and u-smash immediately. Bam. Free kill if you get it set up. It's similar to how you toss a turnip upward and wait on the other side to land an u-smash when you break someone's shield.

Other alternatives upon landing include: grab, jab, or groundfloat anything (for when they're not quite at kill percent yet but you still score the setup). F-smash usually still gets shielded/powershielded so I consider it too slow as a useful followup for it.

So basically
You mean this
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293294

/quotesavatar

 

[Eddie G]

So basically
You mean this
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293294

/quotesavatar

I feel like a derp for accidentally quoting you in that posted thread, but at the same time I feel it could be a fruitful bump.

But anyway...Yeah that! More or less, haha. Kyon smacked him with a f-smash because he was at a really high percent and thus the turnip contact had more stun (and he threw the turnip upward instead of dropping it). Following a similar concept, landing closer and nailing an u-smash is just as feasible and practical. It requires a hard read/bait at times, but like Sonic...that's how she'll score her quicker, more worthwhile kills.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Well by all means, if it works for you then do it! I personally didn't have much success with it when I first tried it, perhaps I need to reconsider its uses or try it out at a variety of heights...

 

[LanceStern]

Again I just don't see the practicality of it.

Peach moves too slow in the air, so your opponent would practically have to be standing still for you to float OVER them, air dodge and dropt he turnip and do an upsmash.

 

[Eddie G]

It's moreso a reactionary kind of punishment/approach, best used as an occasional mixup. It's by no means a "you MUST do this" kind of thing like the character's core game is.

 

[Meru.]

I thought it was a better idea to bring this here

What? You still exist?


No. Her best Momentum cancel move is Uair. Dthrowing a turnip is good when you're getting launched to recover from hit stun, but Uair has a strange animation that makes Peach's body shift and stop her momentum.

Side B and Up B will actually boost you to your death. So, never do it.

I disagree. IMO Peach's best move for Momentum Canceling is (C-stick) Dair. If you do a Dair with the C-stick, you'll automatically fastfall as well, canceling all the knockback. Dair only lasts two frames longer than Uair, which is basically nothing considering it is made up by this immediate fastfall trick.

Also, I'm not so sure about the part where you said that Uair has some magical animation. Can you give me some kind of source on this statement?

 

[¿Qué?]

I thought it was a better idea to bring this here



I disagree. IMO Peach's best move for Momentum Canceling is (C-stick) Dair. If you do a Dair with the C-stick, you'll automatically fastfall as well, canceling all the knockback.

Umm.. NO? Dair doesn't cancel all of knock back, ever. Again, the animation of her body is too weak, so not even the fastfalling would help.

Also, I'm not so sure about the part where you said that Uair has some magical animation. Can you give me some kind of source on this statement?

It's something I found out on my own. You're completely free to try it. If anything, I recommend ALL Peach players to Momentum Cancel with this move as you fast fall. You'll end up living about 40% longer than Dair, since it doesn't do ****.

 

[Meru.]

Ehh ok, well I can also support it with practical evidence and and you're also completely free to retry it? Btw you'll end up living 58,7% longer than Uair.

By the way, there isn't such thing as 'the animation is too weak'. Every aerial momentum cancels the same. It's only about which one ends faster, which is indeed Uair, but with Dair you can immediatly fastfall (Down + C-Stick = Fastfall) which means it does do ****. Animations don't have power, or else Fair would have been the strongest since it has a nice DING to it.

 

[¿Qué?]

Ehh ok, well I can also support it with practical evidence and and you're also completely free to retry it? Btw you'll end up living 58,7% longer than Uair.

By the way, there isn't such thing as 'the animation is too weak'. Every aerial momentum cancels the same. It's only about which one ends faster, which is indeed Uair, but with Dair you can immediatly fastfall (Down + C-Stick = Fastfall) which means it does do ****. Animations don't have power, or else Fair would have been the strongest since it has a nice DING to it.

I'm not going to debate with this anymore. It's apparent that I lack "practical evidence"(even though almost everyone else has said that Uair was better for momentum canceling).

Good day. I shall be having fun with my **** momentum cancel and DI.

 

[Nordal]

Stop throwing tantrums you guys, it's embarrassing.

 

[Meru.]

Apparently you do lack it indeed.

Everyone else is wrong.

Have fun dying 58,7% earlier.

 

[¿Qué?]

It's not a tantrum, lawl.

I'll love every second of it, Yaaay.

 

[Nordal]

It's not a tantrum, lawl.

Yeah, it is. I'm not only blaming you though, both of you are being silly.

Apparently you do lack it indeed.

Everyone else is wrong.

Have fun dying 58,7% earlier.

You do know it was debated for like, ages (until frame data proved Uair was better for momentum canceling) which one was better because they're both good at doing the same job, right? Uair is better for momenum canceling than Dair, bring up your frame data to prove otherwise.

 

[Zankoku]

Unless otherwise proven in a non-visual, actual numbers sense (I'm not about to believe in people who are going to support their claims with circumstancial evidence), here is what I can say about the two attacks...

In a strictly technical sense, uair is superior because you can perform another action 4 frames earlier than you would be able to with dair, and are still able to FF just as soon. I'm not sure what the applications of those extra 4 frames are, though, other than redirecting your momentum angle with a second jump. This, however, would only be helpful for surviving horizontal/low-angle diagonal attacks.

In a practical sense, dair is better for surviving vertical attacks because people are rarely frame perfect at inputting both a uair and a fast-fall input immediately, while with dair you will begin fast-falling the moment you actually pull off a dair, due to the behavior of the C-stick.

 

[Meru.]

You do know it was debated for like, ages (until frame data proved Uair was better for momentum canceling) which one was better because they're both good at doing the same job, right? Uair is better for momenum canceling than Dair, bring up your frame data to prove otherwise.

I know that and I disagree with it. Frame data barely tells anything about this matter except for the fact that Dair lasts four frames longer and Uair is the fastest.

Furthermore, what Ankoku said. It makes it much easier to DI better while still having perfect momentum cancel. Good DI is essential with Peach since she's floaty, which makes DI'ing into corners far more possible than most other characters. Momentum canceling with Dair enables you to use that strength to it's fullest, imo.

 

[Nordal]

Duh, I never said FF Uair was more practical, just that according to frame data, you will live longer. C stick Dair is more practical for vertical knockback.

 

[Zankoku]

Out of curiousity, how would you "live longer"? Both aerials involve you starting a fast-fall at the same time, since you can fast-fall during the startup. Peach's true momentum canceling (braking) options are severely limited. The only thing you might want to do earlier is use your second jump to convert horizontal momentum into vertical, but that's both situational and highly risky to begin with.

 

[Eddie G]

I live forever.

<3 years of Melee DI reaction time.

 

[Nordal]

I live forever.

<3 years of Melee DI reaction time.

>Peach
>Live Forever
>Nope

 

[lloDownedu74]

Surviving is actually pretty easy :O Just pick out your opponent's favorite kill moves and avoid them

 

[Thebest1pj]

because the word "mix up" doesn't apply in this game.

 

[lloDownedu74]

Well, I mean, you can't really say "Oh, well I'm going to 'mix up' my style and completely change which moves kill eariler than others"

Just avoid the common killing moves...
MK: D/Fsmash, D/Nair, shuttle loop
Snake: Utilt, U/Bair
Toon Link: Usmash, Utilt, Fair

etc

It isn't like you can usmash in the air, or utilt upside down or something. Kill moves have their ranges, so just avoid them when you're at killing percent.

Changing your style, or the so called "mix ups," doesn't change kill moves. If you're implying that you'd rather use weak moves than strong moves to kill, then who I am to judge? >_>

 

[Zankoku]

It's actually really easy to completely avoid/seal out a single attack if you really look for it.

That's not to say you can do this for every single attack at all times, though.

 

[deepseadiva]

Well, I mean, you can't really say "Oh, well I'm going to 'mix up' my style and completely change which moves kill eariler than others"

Just avoid the common killing moves...
MK: D/Fsmash, D/Nair, shuttle loop
Snake: Utilt, U/Bair
Toon Link: Usmash, Utilt, Fair

etc

It isn't like you can usmash in the air, or utilt upside down or something. Kill moves have their ranges, so just avoid them when you're at killing percent.

Changing your style, or the so called "mix ups," doesn't change kill moves. If you're implying that you'd rather use weak moves than strong moves to kill, then who I am to judge? >_>

Agreed with LLOD.

This game really isn't that complicated.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Well, I mean, you can't really say "Oh, well I'm going to 'mix up' my style and completely change which moves kill eariler than others"

Just avoid the common killing moves...
MK: D/Fsmash, D/Nair, shuttle loop
Snake: Utilt, U/Bair
Toon Link: Usmash, Utilt, Fair

etc

It isn't like you can usmash in the air, or utilt upside down or something. Kill moves have their ranges, so just avoid them when you're at killing percent.

Changing your style, or the so called "mix ups," doesn't change kill moves. If you're implying that you'd rather use weak moves than strong moves to kill, then who I am to judge? >_>

I dont kill with any of those though.

so you gonna be dieing alot