Peach Tactical GD

[culexus・wau]

I JUST FOUND SOMETHING ****ING STUPID ASDFFSFE but I need to test it more 1st

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Guys, it's all about Mr. Saturn. Have them shield the DAir and then throw it down for the shield break.

Unfortunately, Peach lacks a Warlock Punch and a ridiculous FSmash, so I really have no idea what to do at that point. FSmash... only to get the bad one? Frantically pull turnips, hoping for a stitch (or a bob-omb)?

I think I'll be sticking with Lucario and TL for the moment.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Im quite fond of bombs and saturn's more than anything else.

 

[Meru.]

Toad is amazing, **** the haters. using this on reaction is great when you can't powershield or you need a hitbox out for whatever reason.

Everytime someone says Toad is good I'm linking them to this very traumatizing event.

TOAD ****ING SUCKS NEVER EVER USE THIS PIECE OF ****!!

 

[culexus・wau]

not my fault you suck at using counters

 

[Supreme Dirt]

not my fault you suck

Fix'd.
10s

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Anything that comes out slower Toad you can counter with Toad, I guess.

 

[z00ted]

Im quite fond of bombs and saturn's more than anything else.

We know......

 

[culexus・wau]

FlameWaveK's Bag of Tricks with Peach part 1

ft. BOBOMBS


Bob-Omb

General Facts about Bobbery [thats my nickname for my bob-omb ]

after you throw your bob-omb, he cannot be caught by another player, this also means you can't throw it up and re-catch it

He'll Autoexplode, from my iphone timer it says like approx 10 seconds [I've heard its actually 20 seconds tho], explodes approx... 4 seconds after it starts flashing

****ing **** knockback that will **** whoever it blows up on.

I'm pretty sure the hitbox lingers, idk the exact frame data though.

On a walking bob-omb [this is important for later].

depending on when you plucked him, he'll autoexplode whenever his internal timer decides he wants to.

He explodes on contact on collision with any character,item,hitbox etc

HE WILL NOT EXPLODE ON YOU IF YOU'RE SHIELDING WHILE HE WALKS BY, if your shield is low he might shieldpoke you and explode, but there have been cases where he's "shield poke exploded" on me but the explosion itself only hit my shield and didn't shieldpoke me

Anyways why this is important is because...

Setting up the Walking Bob-omb

This is either uncommonly known, because like, known of WC peaches [praxis or raz] knew but like Dark knew and he heard from peachkid wtf.

Anyways if you pull a bob-omb, you can z-drop him on platforms/onstage without exploding he'll start walking around.

like a boss, LETS GO BOBBERY.

problem is if you mess up you either waste the bomb or worse.... get exploded on :C

very bad very bad, which is why I only do these 2 methods of setting up the Walking Bob-omb

For Platforms, stand on the platform, platform drop -> z-drop at the right time fast fall airdodge.

the fastfall airdodge is just in case you **** up, OR IF YOU ACTUALLY ARE SUCESSFUL, SOMETIMES BOBBY LIKES TO WALK FORWARD AND LIKE.. EXPLODE ON YOU IF YOU DON'T FASTFALL OR AIRDODGE </3 godamn lol

For on the ground ie: mainstage, run off the edge, float to the ledge, drop float, z-drop.

if done correctly your bob-omb will now be walking onstage on ground level, timing/spacing depends on the stage.

Now what do we do while we have this bull****erry set-up?

well heres a few tricks of mine...

Bob-omb walking on platform:
With good spacing from the bottom of battlefields platforms you can explode the bob-omb without hurting yourself with...
- Toad [spores activate and bob-omb explosion hitbox is still active, peach doesn't get hit by the explosion]
- Fsmash [golfclub only]
- Uptilt [must be spaced]
- Upsmash [Doesn't need to be spaced due to upper body invincibility.
- Fair [hard to space]
- Turnips/MrSaturn/BeamSword [the funny part is that they'll bounce off the explosion and still have a hitbox themselves LOL]

I also like farming turnips with the safety/risk of the bob-omb around, noooone wants to **** with that LOL, it means they can't SH aerial and they must approach grounded or with a jumping airdodge

You could be like snake with a mine on the platform, be aggressive and trw to bthrow them into the Bob-omb,THE 08 COMBO <3

With a Bob-omb walking on the ground.

Walk behind it, im not even kidding this is like.... completely safe and allows you to be neutral while a dangerous moving hitbox covers your approach... react to your opponents FEEBLE ATTEMPTS TO RUN FROM BOBBERY and punish.

Highfloat dairs with the bomb walking forward, this puts immense pressure on your opponent ESPECIALLY IF THE BOMB IS WALKING AROUND AND THEY'RE STUCK IN THEIR SHIELD LOL

Dash up toad the bob-omb works too, activates spores and the explosion hitbox is still active.

You can also throw Turnip/Sword/Saturn at the bomb at any time too... it'll bounce off the explosion for additional pressure

um lemme see what else...

from the ledge walking bob-omb set-up before the bob-omb starts moving [it makes a short pause before walking]

you can buffer any ledge option and not get ASPLODED on.

get-up Attack destroys the bob-omb but you add another attack in. works regardless of >100 or <100
Get up... you wake up into the bob-omb and it explodes on you.... WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS IDK.
Get up Roll... you roll pass the bob-omb unharmed. it starts walking towards you after so you better ****ing MOVE or shield tho LOL.
Ledgejump... you jump over without hitting the bob-omb... if this set-up didn't waste float this would be so much better... its possible to do it w/out the float though but its really just soo much harder

ledge drop upB explodes the bob-omb and you get to the ledge again...

buffer'd ledgedrop jump invincinair will explode the bob-omb and you can still hit with nairs 2nd hitbox if they block both attacks peach doesn't get blown up either <3

Misc Bob-Omb Tricks.

filler **** that I do:

z-drop the bob-omb near the ground toad. the bob-omb explosion is still active and the spores come out.

one set-up I do is get the opponent near the ledge and z-drop bobbery reverse toad.

if they sidestep they get hit by the bomb

if they shield they get knocked offstage and you're safe-ish [at the very least you have plenty of time to react to their punishment and DI]

if they roll forward they get hit by toad spores.

its a pretty **** set-up if I say so myself <3


z-drop the bomb..
-Roll away or towards
- sidestep or powershield explosion
- jump again airdodge the explosion
- dash/walk away from explosion
- pull turnip [away from the explosion]

gay stall/time-out thing I did in a ladder match.

when you'll still be in the lead with a 30% damage deficit or you have a stock lead.

jump offstage, UpB, avoid your opponent if they can't chase you around offstage [example marth or ganondorf or ike]

wait for bomb to explode, tech the stage [preferably walltech jump if you can], recover/stall more LOL

I timed out someone like this

ummm if you're shielding the bob-omb will explode if someone hits your shield, if you're shield is healthy though this usually results in them getting *****.

ALWAYS GET PORT 4 SO YOU DON'T GET ***** BY YOUR OWN BOMB IN GRAB ARMOR SHENANIGANS

other misc stuff I just wanna write down right now

anytime while floating near the ledge or just being near just UpB and you'll grab the ledge instantly, you can grab the ledge faster this way if you're not facing the ledge while floating.

Run off, throw turnip up, upB towards ledge autograbs the ledge and a turnip falls.

You can also do this with free turnip pull, run off freepull, up toss, upB grab the ledge.

UpB... for the most part is safe on hit and actually beats a lot of **** from below
its CLEARLY ONLY A MIX-UP THOUGH << silly mix-up tho lol.

when people run out of invicibility on the ledge, ground float dair will hit them with a single hit and they'll start falling, from their drop the floated dair and edgeguard.

footstool buffer'd nair hits wario without float


so uh... until next time yo

ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF FLAMEWAVE-Z

PEACH PULLED A BEAMSWORD? ITS STARS WARS *****.

BEAMSWORD TRICKS WITH FLAMEWAVE.

owari.

 

[Airgemini]

Interesting read. Good stuff!

 

[C.S. Dinah]

What Air said.

Good ****! lol

 

[culexus・wau]

Playing Soccer with Mr.Saturn is fun.

weak toss up

ftilt

ftilt

ftilt

:D

 

[Dark.Pch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1PlJspjfSw

 

[culexus・wau]

You didn't do the grounded/ledge set-up

but yeah theres a nice visual for you guys LOL

 

[Dark.Pch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgn6kiIcqbE

 

[culexus・wau]

March bob-ombs march

 

[Moozle]

I wish Toad worked more like Ike's and Marth's counter. I hate set knockback/damage

 

[culexus・wau]

I heard from raz that toad KB scales but he wasn't 100% sure.

 

[Razmakazi]

toad does scale.

i just don't know by how much.

 

[deepseadiva]

Wow, amazing post Flame.

 

[culexus・wau]

FlameWaveK (12:49:11 AM): asking again
FlameWaveK (12:49:14 AM): you weren't clear
FlameWaveK (12:49:15 AM): so does
FlameWaveK (12:49:18 AM): toad KB scale?
FlameWaveK (12:49:23 AM): or
FlameWaveK (12:49:25 AM): it does
FlameWaveK (12:49:30 AM): but its too insignificant
FlameWaveK (12:49:34 AM): to matter
Jose DiazSoto (12:50:03 AM): I'm pretty sure it doesn't scale at all broski. My first tests were inconsistent because of placings and movement.
Jose DiazSoto (12:50:30 AM): Later when I could keep more of the v ariables in check... no rather, eliminating them all-together, there were no difference in distance.
Jose DiazSoto (12:50:41 AM): differences*
FlameWaveK (12:50:43 AM): um
FlameWaveK (12:50:43 AM): so
FlameWaveK (12:50:46 AM): drop toad
FlameWaveK (12:50:49 AM): er
FlameWaveK (12:50:53 AM): drop bomb-omb toad
FlameWaveK (12:50:59 AM): does the same damage and KB
FlameWaveK (12:51:02 AM): and jabbing the toad?
Jose DiazSoto (12:51:10 AM): Yes, that's correct.

toad KB doesn't scale apparently.

oh well

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I checked this ages ago and the spores deal the same amount of damage no matter what move hits it. It doesn't act like Marth and Ike's counter

Whilst we're on the subject of Toad...he is bad. Really quite bad. I know I'm contradicting what I used to say but Toad is just far too easy to abuse and punish. He come's out too slow, has a crap ton of ending lag even if the counter is set off and only faces one way - get hit from behind and you're screwed. I've lost count the number of times I've got Up Smashes in Peach dittos because I'm just so used to the other person using Toad to help them recover


I used to love using Toad and I looked into every detail I could find out about him and the unfortunate conclusion is that he sucks

Also Yaaay, with some better DI and proper momentum cancelling you probably could have survived that And you missed a bunch of chances to kill him at the end ;__;

 

[culexus・wau]

idc if toad is bad

I make him look good

and he gets me out of tough spots

and thats good enough for me


I just use him smartly and it works out for me lol

 

[Xyless]

I checked this ages ago and the spores deal the same amount of damage no matter what move hits it. It doesn't act like Marth and Ike's counter

Whilst we're on the subject of Toad...he is bad. Really quite bad. I know I'm contradicting what I used to say but Toad is just far too easy to abuse and punish. He come's out too slow, has a crap ton of ending lag even if the counter is set off and only faces one way - get hit from behind and you're screwed. I've lost count the number of times I've got Up Smashes in Peach dittos because I'm just so used to the other person using Toad to help them recover


I used to love using Toad and I looked into every detail I could find out about him and the unfortunate conclusion is that he sucks

I believe the correct term you are looking for is "situational".

 

[Meru.]

I checked this ages ago and the spores deal the same amount of damage no matter what move hits it. It doesn't act like Marth and Ike's counter

Whilst we're on the subject of Toad...he is bad. Really quite bad. I know I'm contradicting what I used to say but Toad is just far too easy to abuse and punish. He come's out too slow, has a crap ton of ending lag even if the counter is set off and only faces one way - get hit from behind and you're screwed. I've lost count the number of times I've got Up Smashes in Peach dittos because I'm just so used to the other person using Toad to help them recover


I used to love using Toad and I looked into every detail I could find out about him and the unfortunate conclusion is that he sucks

Also Yaaay, with some better DI and proper momentum cancelling you probably could have survived that And you missed a bunch of chances to kill him at the end ;__;

The knockback multiplies with 1.5 or something and I was close to the ledge so I'm pretty sure I couldn't. It also come's as a surprise.

And yeah, I missed a lot of chances but this Ness is reaaaally good and annoying and I didn't (and I might still not) know the match-up. x_x

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Toad is good for stalling in Peach dittos.... lol

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Situational but the the term is still definitely 'bad'

If you're lucky, you might get one Toad out of surprise and then the opponent is wary of it and is ready to punish it whenever you next use it. This wouldn't be so bad if you could use it up close but it's so telegraphed that this makes it a problem

He's slow and he's useless against attacks from behind, projectiles, reflectors, grabs and causes you to drop like a brick when activated. It's so easy to punish a whiffed Toad and that's a very very bad thing with crepe paper light Peach


Once you get used to Peach Flame you'll realise this unfortunte truth As Meno or Airge or Praxis will tell you, I once believed in the ways of the Toad. Now my innocence is gone and I have grown to find he's bad

 

[Xyless]

If you're lucky, you might get one Toad out of surprise and then the opponent is wary of it and is ready to punish it whenever you next use it. This wouldn't be so bad if you could use it up close but it's so telegraphed that this makes it a problem

You should very rarely use it, obviously. I actually have quite a bit of success with it, but that's mostly because I find it fun to catch people trying to get a kill shot on me, especially when recovering (especially vs Falco's fsmash).

 

[culexus・wau]

**** the haters I love toad.

Basically I use it as a counter mixup to bait more grabbing.

It's also an air stall method. And if you can't jump or airdodge a projectile like aurasphere... toad! (if you can recover after the toadfall animation).

I basically use him to get hits ,
Airstall, parry things and remain unpredictable.

Tldr: if I can make DT a good move. Goshdarnit I can make toad a good move.

Not arguing that toad isn't situational tho lmao

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Use it on something that comes out slower than.

Toad
Duration: 64
Counters on Frame: 11
Counter Duration: 11-31 (21)
Cooldown: 31

^This.

 

[culexus・wau]

Or If you know they'll hit you



Damn toads counter is slow, but the counterframes last long

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Yea, that too lol

 

[Meru.]

I'd just use Toad whenever you know they are gonna hit you, for example recvering vs a Fair-happy Marth. It's definitely very situational. I wish the reward was somewhat bigger though... It's kinda high risk, mediocre reward.

 

[culexus・wau]

Lol. The risk isn't too bad when you're not kill %.

At least toad is safe when the spores hit

 

[Meru.]

The risk is really bad. 31 frames of lag is extremely much. That's 2 frames more than a turnip pluck or only 2 frames less than Peach Bomber's lag. Also note that even when toad counters, the enemy's hitboxes can still clash or go through the spores and afterwards you will be left wide open for punishment. It's stupid, the spores should have been transcendant.

It's safe when you hit I guess, except when you're below the ledge or something, but that's no place to use Toad anyway.

I wish Peach had some better specials... It would also significantly help her item game. Not that it isnt amazing already, it would just be better.

 

[culexus・wau]

People never get greedy and charge a smash on me and that lag isn't so bad
That snake can walk up and fsmash on reaction

Furthermore you obviously know that you whiffed counter so you have plenty of time to mash your di out.

Like I said, as long as you're not kill % it's not the end of the world if you get punished for whiffing counter

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

btw you can also safely hit a bomb-om with the second hit of dash attack. just tested it and it works.

 

[Xyless]

So I was bored, and decided to try A-Sticking (attack sticking).

It makes ground float nairs so much easier.

 

[¿Qué?]

S-Sticking= A-Sticking?

 

[deepseadiva]

No, A-stick is basically the tilt stick.

I remember Garbage said he did some investigating and decided that was the optimal control scheme for Peach.