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that is pretty cool. personally I've been neglecting free pull for months but a couple days ago I started using rick's shoulder special method to free pull and instead of 50% consistency I have like 90% or so. In game it's less though coz I get nervous about it and I'll still d`cking around to find applications. Should be fun to toy w/. I prob shud check out some meno vids but I'll try to work through it myself for the most part.
that is pretty cool. personally I've been neglecting free pull for months but a couple days ago I started using rick's shoulder special method to free pull and instead of 50% consistency I have like 90% or so. In game it's less though coz I get nervous about it and I'll still d`cking around to find applications. Should be fun to toy w/. I prob shud check out some meno vids but I'll try to work through it myself for the most part.
It's cool because once you feel that you know where that flat part amongst the analog stick is, you just have that feel for Bone Walking. I dodged an Ike's Fsmash with Free pull. lolololol
Sometimes after I've been hit while carrying a turnip and I buffer an aerial during the hitstun, I'll perform the aerial while holding the turnip, floating or not. Either you dropped the turnip and recaught or what I mentioned happened.
I've got Tiers S, A, and B done on my B-Stick vs S-Stick thing, as well as a few others. Now I'm trying to see what you guys think. Most of the debate I have is the matchups in the air and ground, and which is more in Peach's favor. For example, Kirby is most definitely a B-Stick because his bair outdoes everything Peach can in the air.
I'll just post this here. Added the B Tier to my in-progress BStick vs SStick list, as well as some color stuff.
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SS (Smash Stick) vs BS (BStick or "Special Stick")
My current list, based on people I've played and general knowledge about the characters' playstyles.
Now added Tier B. I decided to add a little color bar, similar to a matchup list, based on my views of how recommended I would consider the stick.
BStick to SStick.
So... Red BStick = Probably best to use BStick. Orange BStick = BStick is more beneficial, but SStick is still viable. Yellow Stick = Both BStick and SStick have about an equal benefit. Light Green SStick = SStick is more beneficial, but BStick is still viable. Green SStick = Probably best to use SStick.
Tier S
[collapse="Meta Knight"]
Meta Knight - Bstick is very useful in the matchup, because Peach generally has to play more defensive in this matchup anyways. It gives her a semi-reliable escape option from his tornado, lets you space away from a lot of his moves when he's on your face (and doing any actual attack would result in shield > shuttle loop), and, to be honest, she doesn't need SDI as much as one would think.
Tier A
[collapse="Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Wario, Ice Climbers"]
Snake - Tossup, but I felt more comfortable using SStick, as turnips don't really help as much as one would hope and this matchup is more about pressuring. Plus, the slide doesn't really help much with his wicked tilt range, and if he reads it, he can just DACUS at you.
Diddy Kong - Haven't played any good Diddies, but given the matchup, I would assume SStick would be preferred for better banana control and possibly SDI on his multihit moves (fsmash, jabflurry)
Falco - SStick. Not even a question, considering his laser game will shut down any slides we do anyways.
Wario - SStick, I believe. Haven't played a Wario since switching, but bair (and other aerial) spacing is vital to the matchup, and I don't feel as safe with Peach's grab release > usmash without SStick to usmash for me.
Marth - BStick, I think. It's another case of spacing away from the character, possibly even at him if he's close to a tipper range (just to throw him off). I'm not really sure, though, since I'm horrible vs Marth.
Ice Climbers - SStick, because Peach is already very strong against ICs, and I can't imagine the slide being all that useful. If the ICs can't grab you, they can't grab you. If they can, all of the turnips in the world shouldn't be able to save you.[/collapse]
Tier B
[collapse="Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede, Mr Game & Watch, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus"]
Olimar - SStick, for sure. Peach really doesn't gain very much from turnips in this matchup, and being able to agilely move out of his smash range while floating and aerialing is crucial.
Pikachu - SStick (I guess, not sure), if anything because SDI'ing out of his dsmash is far easier, though the BStick spacing could be useful against some Pikachus' playstyles.
King Dedede - BStick or SStick. Each has their benefit in this matchup, and I believe that neither is really better against Dedede himself, but rather more based on how the player tends to play the matchup. For those who like taking the MU defensively and avoiding grabs more, then BStick is the way to go. Want to go aggro and pound him to the ground? Then use SStick. Dedede is really probably one of the few characters I'd recommend either control scheme evenly.
G&W - SStick, I guess. BSticking might be more useful for all I know, but I haven't really practiced my Beach with my friend's G&W enough.
Lucario - BStick or SStick. This is more dependent on what you know about the opponent, I believe. If the Lucario tends to play campy, especially at higher percentages, BStick might be a better tool, as it lets her keep up a little better with his movement and lets her camp just as much. SStick might be good for more aggressive Lucarios.
Zero Suit Samus - Not sure, but I'll go with SStick. Turnip sliding is a little unsafe if the ZSS expects it, as the whip can catch much of an area that you can slide around.[/collapse]
Tier C
Toon Link -
Kirby - BStick would probably be best. Considering most of Peach's aerials are beaten out by Kirby's bair, being grounded is generally a safer option anyways. Plus, I've noticed that many Kirbies like to grab, and considering his grab range isn't the best, it's a decent bait.
Fox -
ROB -
Pit -
Peach - So, how about that Peach ditto? IMO, the ditto gets far more interesting once B-sticking becomes part of the equation, especially if it is a B-Stick Peach vs a S-Stick Peach.
Donkey Kong -
Tier D
Luigi -
Wolf -
Zelda/Sheik -
Sonic -
Ike -
Sheik -
Ness - B-Stick. Let's be honest, it doesn't really matter how well we space aerials when his fair outranges everything we can do. Plus, the biggest potential move we have against Ness (grab release CG) is unaffected anyways. It also makes it harder for Ness to get a grab off on us when it's kill time, which is pretty major for Ness.
I don't understand how Kirby has such an "average" chain grab but he gets so many quick grabs on me... and this is on my autocancelled Fair! It seems disjointed and quick
No, it won't. This place isn't for social discussion.
If you're talking about the very few occurances of progressive tactical discussion then yeah, go ahead.
If you don't want social discussion to occur anywhere else then open the designated thread for it, issue infractions to the people who contributed to the drama, and be done with it.
Stop leaving the majority of the active board with ridiculous ultimatums. I'm also a big advocate for progressive tactical discussion and you know that, but you're going about it the wrong way.
Yeah ignore my previous comment. I knew I was being silly saying that in here. Still though I have to say I'm disappointed on how things are being taken care of around here. Air I left you a VM.
Anyway yeah I'm kinda with Rick I've dabbled in Bstick with certain MUs seeing which they'd be most useful. Honestly it's not very many.
It outweighs it, I did not say that it was the end-all strategy. Remember that playing an opponent isn't entirely based on the character itself. It also has to do with how well the opponent can read you. If they have little idea where you'll be within a certain area, then it will be harder for them to punish in the way that they want. For example, at the tourney I was at last weekend, I beat a Dedede simply because every time he had an opportunity to punish with a grab, I was able to sneak just out of his grab range.
Mix in the ability to randomize your movement while free-pulling and the randomness of the turnip pull (especially factoring in the winking face's not-so-rare occurrence), and I'd be willing to say that it's one of Peach's potential best abilities. And unlike using an S-Stick, you can do it 95% of the time with B-Sticking without having to really even think about it, unlike doing it with the S-Stick.
Unlike Meno, I haven't been B-Sticking since the game came out. I've had far more experience with S-Sticking, and am not denying that it is the prefered option for most matchups. I'm saying that people are being extremely closed minded about a potential matchup changer for a lot of situations.
I think it could be really interesting for someone to kind of B-stick as a CP just to really mess with the opponent. It would take a lot of practice to be able to switch off and on efficiently, but I think if you could establish a distinctly different play-style with Cstick and Bstick then it could be really effective.
hey xyless how does b-sticking work on stages like rainbow cruise and brinster?
cause on stages like that i could imagine it being really good and you being able to get a lot of turnips. also DI isn't too much of a factor on them cause of the short boundries.....
if i were to ever use b-stick it would be on stages like those.
Well, my opinion on Bsticking is pretty much in between everyone elses.
Why not take up the option of having better mobility in an MU when it will actually have an impact on it?
I'm going to try and learn Bsticking as well for certain MUs. I think we should all do this. It will HIGHLY improve our level of play. Just by switching to Bstick from Sstick from an MU can noticably change what you can do.
Yes, I know Free pulling and Bone Walking can both be performed with Sstick as well, but it's obviously not as consistant. So I still have to say that Bsticking is not useless. It's an alternative to harder MUs.