Peach Tactical GD

[Gameswithgoodies]

maybe she will go down faster if you fast fall out of the float than immediately do an air dodge?

 

[Mikachiru]

Don't mean to change the subject here but I need some help with something. I was looking through the old threads for stuff that I haven't heard anyone talk too much about that could be possibly useful. Some of this stuff is really old (08 old) but maybe they can still be useful? For an example...

Water floating- Praxis came up with this. I dunno if this is much use unless someone's going to Delfino or Pirate Ship (mostly Pirate Ship).

Short hop triple turnip hit From what I've read, this seems more useful with Mr. Saturn since fj ---> zair drop can be powershielded and stuff. And we know how much Mr. Saturn likes dem shields.

Still looking around the forum for stuff. All the threads are missing...;~; I'm looking around cuz the whole infinite thing interested me. Yeah, I know 2 years later, if a practical infinite existed, it would of been discovered by now. But who knows, maybe I'll find something else that could possibly be useful (or cool). Gonna do some testing with a bunch of those technical stuffz and see what I can find.

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

i love water floating so much in delfino

 

[-Cross-]

Don't mean to change the subject here but I need some help with something. I was looking through the old threads for stuff that I haven't heard anyone talk too much about that could be possibly useful. Some of this stuff is really old (08 old) but maybe they can still be useful? For an example...

Water floating- Praxis came up with this. I dunno if this is much use unless someone's going to Delfino or Pirate Ship (mostly Pirate Ship).

Short hop triple turnip hit From what I've read, this seems more useful with Mr. Saturn since fj ---> zair drop can be powershielded and stuff. And we know how much Mr. Saturn likes dem shields.

Still looking around the forum for stuff. All the threads are missing...;~; I'm looking around cuz the whole infinite thing interested me. Yeah, I know 2 years later, if a practical infinite existed, it would of been discovered by now. But who knows, maybe I'll find something else that could possibly be useful (or cool). Gonna do some testing with a bunch of those technical stuffz and see what I can find.

Alright water floating is known but people rarely use it from what I see. Btw the best application of this, is on Jungle Japes. Unfortunately, not too many regions have it as a legal counterpick, but if they do against a lot of characters this tactic forces them to commit to an approach. You want to play gay? Then go to Jungle Japes, get 1% and camp in the water, just watch out for klap traps.

Also regarding the turnip d-toss. You can actually do triple turnip down throw, and imo z-drop to land it is a bad idea because it degenerates subsequent turnip hits and also makes this whole thing slower. What I do is SH d-throw, air dodge cancel d-throw, buffer second jump and d-throw. And you can fit in one more d-throw after that. However, I stopped it right there because once you get to medium %'s, you can actually footstool the opponent after the first or the third turnip hit. The knockback is enough that they get popped in the air for a long enough time that you can footstool them at that height and get the animation where they act like they have been air footstooled. Then, you can do this infinite: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10910400&postcount=76
lol I guess I just realized, LEGIT INFINITE? maybe.

Looking for practical? This is probably the most practical an infinite will get. Technical? Hell yes, you can not imagine how hard it is to control your DI on that second jump and you also have to buffer d-throwing the turnip, considering all this it is pretty hard to pull off and even a little lag can screw you up. However, this is a punish OoS if you perfect shield or they space badly. And we all know how good OoS options can be in a game with little shield stun

 

[Xyless]

Man, I think B-sticking feels beneficial for some matchups, but detrimental in others. Seems like it's more useful in the MK MU, but not very in the Falco MU.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I been sitting at home all day and I been thinking. I think that all approach moves Peach has are all unsafe. Like every single one. I feel that only a running away defensive game is what will beat top MK players. I'm not saying this is the only way but as time goes on I feel that its the only option. The attacking while running seems like something that may work. Its a bit against how Peach's play other mu's and Peach players should be ready to have a more than 5 minute match.... I don't know...

 

[¿Qué?]

I been sitting at home all day and I been thinking. I think that all approach moves Peach has are all unsafe. Like every single one. I feel that only a running away defensive game is what will beat top MK players. I'm not saying this is the only way but as time goes on I feel that its the only option. The attacking while running seems like something that may work. Its a bit against how Peach's play other mu's and Peach players should be ready to have a more than 5 minute match.... I don't know...

I see exactly what you're saying. I agree that it's a huge, and I mean HUGE, part of victory in this MU. We need to do mixes of Offensive/ Deffensive. Our Deffensive game can be totally punished, just because of our lack of speed. Now, if we do transitions between attack and deffence we should be able to keep MK away for a longer time. Peach's Deffensive game gets old, slow and predictable.

We still have to keep in mind that if MK messes up, we have room for 60% damage punish. IMO we need a perfect mix of the two.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

At that point the mindset of your enemy changes and they start to get desperate. More mistakes on there part appear and more aggro choices arise.

 

[¿Qué?]

At that point the mindset of your enemy changes and they start to get desperate. More mistakes on there part appear and more aggro choices arise.

EXACTLY!

Gawd, I knew what you were getting at, but I coulnd't put it into words.


Kyon's BEAST.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

EXACTLY!

Gawd, I knew what you were getting at, but I coulnd't put it into words.


Kyon's BEAST.

But knowing what to punish is the other half of the battle.Things may look safe but mk always has a way out

 

[¿Qué?]

But knowing what to punish is the other half of the battle.Things may look safe but mk always has a way out

Yeah, so you'd prob have to show the MK that you have more than one option for punish, to make it harder to predict.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

People should try that low-floating airdodge action.

Its pretty ****.

 

[Xyless]

Or just B-stick, so you can run and pull turnips/bombs at the same time!

 

[deepseadiva]

Man, I think B-sticking feels beneficial for some matchups, but detrimental in others. Seems like it's more useful in the MK MU, but not very in the Falco MU.

I wouldn't say detrimental, but yea free and dash pulling's usefulness certainly depends on the match-up.

MK? Additional mobility, zoning, and spacing is a god-send.

Falco? All of the above is moot since he can punish a turnip pull from anywhere on the stage.

I been sitting at home all day and I been thinking. I think that all approach moves Peach has are all unsafe. Like every single one. I feel that only a running away defensive game is what will beat top MK players. I'm not saying this is the only way but as time goes on I feel that its the only option. The attacking while running seems like something that may work. Its a bit against how Peach's play other mu's and Peach players should be ready to have a more than 5 minute match.... I don't know...

I would disagree to an extent.

The standard turnip camping does not work. MK has zero problems dealing with them. To win the MK match-up you have to be zoning him constantly and you have to be capitalizing on every mistake. Every single one. Tornado is nearly useless against Peach and needs to be punished. Shuttle Loop needs to be the fatal kill set-up. Ledge play done correctly is something surprisingly Peach can do. And his ftilt and fair stuff? Reverse glidetoss or fair and when inside, jab the **** out of him. The only time we have a solid advantage.

Camping doesn't do any of that - we might as well be chucking smoke balls for all running away does.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I


I would disagree to an extent.

The standard turnip camping does not work. MK has zero problems dealing with them. To win the MK match-up you have to be zoning him constantly and you have to be capitalizing on every mistake. Every single one. Tornado is nearly useless against Peach and needs to be punished. Shuttle Loop needs to be the fatal kill set-up. Ledge play done correctly is something surprisingly Peach can do. And his ftilt and fair stuff? Reverse glidetoss or fair and when inside, jab the **** out of him. The only time we have a solid advantage.

Camping doesn't do any of that - we might as well be chucking smoke balls for all running away does.

I feel like you are the only Peach player on this site that listens to what I say and actually aggree with what I say.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I wouldn't say detrimental, but yea free and dash pulling's usefulness certainly depends on the match-up.

MK? Additional mobility, zoning, and spacing is a god-send.

Falco? All of the above is moot since he can punish a turnip pull from anywhere on the stage.



I would disagree to an extent.

The standard turnip camping does not work. MK has zero problems dealing with them. To win the MK match-up you have to be zoning him constantly and you have to be capitalizing on every mistake. Every single one. Tornado is nearly useless against Peach and needs to be punished. Shuttle Loop needs to be the fatal kill set-up. Ledge play done correctly is something surprisingly Peach can do. And his ftilt and fair stuff? Reverse glidetoss or fair and when inside, jab the **** out of him. The only time we have a solid advantage.

Camping doesn't do any of that - we might as well be chucking smoke balls for all running away does.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about turnips and just throwing them at him. That isn't the only way to camp dear. What I was talking about is like this. Reverse dair, very good space jabs, Shutterstep fsmash only when he is in the air,ground retreating fair or just retreating fairs, nair and bair oos, i believe if you ever glidetoss forward which you shouldn't do and if it connects I feel its a free dash attack if buffered, use the get close power shield approach and react on what they do and not challenging his glide attack unless your sure it will ether clash or you will hit even though clashing is still kinda a bad choice. andthe use of turnip drop into safe hits.

I dont know not many of you guys agree with some of the play styles or things like that that I post like the Luigi one which im sure if mastered is perfect against him. I'm just telling you what I think is all. I know someone agree's somewhere. And of course one way to fight isn't the only way. I just think an aggro way against top mk's gets you no where. Always feel the well I got close feeling but close is never enough.

 

[Meru.]

I think that all approach moves Peach has are all unsafe.

I couldnt disagree more. Her Fair and Bair are completely safe on shield, as is her Dair, most of the time. Her Nair is all right. Her tosses arent slow turnips have good shieldstun too, not to mention items can set up for frame traps.

As for her ground moves, she has Dtilt and jab, altough the latter one has to somewhat rely on human error (-> mindgames/mix-ups). Her Fsmash has decent shieldstun and a delusional animation, you can sometimes jab your opponents if they want to punish. She's better off with her aerials though.

I think her biggest 'problem' with zoning (though I honestly think shes actually good at zoning) is actually getting there due to her slow mobility.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I'm pretty sure I still get hit with shuttle loop or his nair oos still when I use those moves or I just get grabbed when I land. if jab its his shield im sure that his side tilt hand also hit is. Normally i'd agree with what your saying but i feel that thats on a low level mk. On a high one that knows his options and limits I say no. Not saying what your saying is wrong or I might be... hm..... Im just pretty sure all Peach players that have played the USA's top Mk's know what I'm talking about.

 

[Meru.]

You dont have to play a top USA MK to show frame data.
[collapse=]
Fair
Duration: 54
Hits on Frame: 16 (max range @ 17)
Hitbox Duration: 16-19 (4)
Aerial Cooldown: 35
Landing Lag: 22
Autocancels on Frame: 20

Shield stun: 5
Optimal Shield Advantage (assumes hitting with F17 hitbox): 0, -2
Optimal Shield Drop Advantage: +7, +5


Bair
Duration: 55
Hits on Frame: 6
Strong Hitbox Duration: 6-8 (3)
Weak Hitbox Duration: 9-19 (11)
Aerial Cooldown: 36
Landing Lag: 9
Autocancels on Frame: 20

Shield stun: 5, 2
Optimal Shield Advantage: -4 (hard hit then land)
Optimal Shield Drop Advantage: +3
Optimal Shield Advantage Autocanceled: 0 (weak hit bair -> ac landing)
Optimal Shield Drop Advantage Autocanceled: +7[/collapse]

I think this a good thing to know in general. If you auto cancel a Fair or Bair, the advantage on shield is 0 (!), which is basically a neutral position. If you AC well, you should be able to avoid both a grab or SH or Nair, especially with Fair's range.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Which is why I said its what I feel. And yes its nice to know all that frame data but let me remind you that we aren't computers and everything doesn't go that way. From what I have seen no player is frame perfect.And Also Just because we get the frame advantage doesn't mean we will hit and be safe. Peach may have alot of priority but that doesn't beat a sword or grounded shuttleloop and even grab armor. I treat Smash Like Yugioh sometimes. The last card played goes first in a chain and wins So whoever attacks first gets punished. I'm sure if everyone was frame perfect mk would still be winning.

 

[Meru.]

Which is why I said its what I feel. And yes its nice to know all that frame data but let me remind you that we aren't computers and everything doesn't go that way. From what I have seen no player is frame perfect.And Also Just because we get the frame advantage doesn't mean we will hit and be safe. Peach may have alot of priority but that doesn't beat a sword or grounded shuttleloop and even grab armor. I treat Smash Like Yugioh sometimes. The last card played goes first in a chain and wins So whoever attacks first gets punished. I'm sure if everyone was frame perfect mk would still be winning.

Okay.

Your point? I have no idea what youre trying to defend.

 

[deepseadiva]

Always feel the well I got close feeling but close is never enough.

...I couldn't agree more.

And yes its nice to know all that frame data but let me remind you that we aren't computers and everything doesn't go that way. From what I have seen no player is frame perfect.

We're talking about autocanceling. We're frame perfect about 9 out of 10 times if not more often.

The problem with shield advantages against MK though is that he can Shuttle Loop before it hits his shield, as well as after. Making it so we have to fill two requirements: 1) the attack has to be unexpected, and 2) the attack has to be spaced perfectly. Fair seems unsafe because he can beat it on reaction. Float dair is completly out of the question, it can only be short hopped.

That's actually my personal test when watching to see if the Peach or MK knows the match-up - watching to see if the Peach uses float dair, and whether the MK punishes or not.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Its not me denfending anything really.Its you saying that Peach is completely safe on shield against mk when she isn't.

@Meno I do that too.

 

[Meru.]

Its not me denfending anything really.Its you saying that Peach is completely safe on shield against mk when she isn't.

On shield she is. Now if I read Meno's post I think I can see what you're getting at.

Anyway, let me rephrase:

Peach has a high possibility of being safe on MK's shield with her Bair and particularly Fair, which imo, is extremely useful, altough not the solution to everything.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I couldnt disagree more. Her Fair and Bair are completely safe on shield, as is her Dair, most of the time. Her Nair is all right. Her tosses arent slow turnips have good shieldstun too, not to mention items can set up for frame traps.

As for her ground moves, she has Dtilt and jab, altough the latter one has to somewhat rely on human error (-> mindgames/mix-ups). Her Fsmash has decent shieldstun and a delusional animation, you can sometimes jab your opponents if they want to punish. She's better off with her aerials though.

I think her biggest 'problem' with zoning (though I honestly think shes actually good at zoning) is actually getting there due to her slow mobility.

You dont have to play a top USA MK to show frame data.
[collapse=]
Fair
Duration: 54
Hits on Frame: 16 (max range @ 17)
Hitbox Duration: 16-19 (4)
Aerial Cooldown: 35
Landing Lag: 22
Autocancels on Frame: 20

Shield stun: 5
Optimal Shield Advantage (assumes hitting with F17 hitbox): 0, -2
Optimal Shield Drop Advantage: +7, +5


Bair
Duration: 55
Hits on Frame: 6
Strong Hitbox Duration: 6-8 (3)
Weak Hitbox Duration: 9-19 (11)
Aerial Cooldown: 36
Landing Lag: 9
Autocancels on Frame: 20

Shield stun: 5, 2
Optimal Shield Advantage: -4 (hard hit then land)
Optimal Shield Drop Advantage: +3
Optimal Shield Advantage Autocanceled: 0 (weak hit bair -> ac landing)
Optimal Shield Drop Advantage Autocanceled: +7[/collapse]

I think this a good thing to know in general. If you auto cancel a Fair or Bair, the advantage on shield is 0 (!), which is basically a neutral position. If you AC well, you should be able to avoid both a grab or SH or Nair, especially with Fair's range.

...I couldn't agree more.



We're talking about autocanceling. We're frame perfect about 9 out of 10 times if not more often.

The problem with shield advantages against MK though is that he can Shuttle Loop before it hits his shield, as well as after. Making it so we have to fill two requirements: 1) the attack has to be unexpected, and 2) the attack has to be spaced perfectly. Fair seems unsafe because he can beat it on reaction. Float dair is completly out of the question, it can only be short hopped.

That's actually my personal test when watching to see if the Peach or MK knows the match-up - watching to see if the Peach uses float dair, and whether the MK punishes or not.

On shield she is. Now if I read Meno's post I think I can see what you're getting at.

Anyway, let me rephrase:

Peach has a high possibility of being safe on MK's shield with her Bair and particularly Fair, which imo, is extremely useful, altough not the solution to everything.

Holy ****. I'm freaking impressed from both you guys. Really Yaaay. Nice work.

 

[Mikachiru]

Does anyone see Beamsword more often than Stitch/Mr. Saturn/Bob-ombs? I know that it's already been stated so many times that each of the special items have a 1/64 chance or something, but I'm really starting to think that Beamswords are more rare than the other stuff...

 

[Two-Ell]

lol for me the order of most appearances is:

Saturn
Stitch
Bomb
Sword

 

[Metatitan]

Oh look another Peach vs MK debate, and here's what I'll expect: people backing up theorycrafting with frame data (while forgetting something), and a lack of results of peach beating a mk that knows the MU.

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh look Metatitan being pessimistic again.

 

[Metatitan]

Pessimism is an emphasis on the negative aspects of something. This is realism.

And it happens every time. We'll get a peach vs mk matchup debate going and, while we'll discuss important facts such as camping, shield game, and recovery, we all disagree on exactly how bad the matchup is (and at this point if you don't think it's that bad of a matchup then you're just ignoring tournament evidence as well as the frame data that so many people like to whip out in an attempt to make the matchup sound more winnable).

I have never seen a peach main take down a higher level mk player that actually knows the MU (nor have I even seen a higher level mk taken down by peach period), and yet people still insist that the matchup is winnable in a set. On non "gay" stages, it may or may not be, or at least it certainly isn't as terrible. But if mk wins the first match (which probably will happen) then he's almost guaranteed to win the set.

I'm not trying to say "give up on the metaknight matchup" because mabey one day there will be a peach who accomplishes awesome and beats a higher level mk who knows the matchup and therefore disproves everything I've just said. But at this point, it just is not happening.

Go ahead and keep discussing, but most of the stuff I've seen is repeated (praxis mentioned b sticking like techs vs mk months ago and results still have been the same).

As for contributing, not all mk's finish f tilt on your shield so by the time you attempt to Fair OoS he can probably shuttle loop you (as for turnips, he probably shouldnt by f tilting your shield when you have a turnip in hand).

And haven't we learned that for the most part agro doesn't really work in brawl? Being defensive=/=camping as well, camping is just a tool in defensive play.

 

[Eddie G]

I'm sorry, but I haven't facepalmed this hard in a while. These bits of information and suggestions I've seen about what Peach does in the MK matchup are absurd. How many of you are still getting unnecessarily ***** by his grounded shuttle loop with that mentality that any of her aerials are safe on his shield? Dear ****ing lord...learn from your mistakes against MK in the past, Peaches. It gets frustrating to see people stick to their guns with their opinons on this matchup when the only thing that happened the last time they played a remotely good MK in tournament was get ***** by him.

PEACH CANNOT COMPETE WITH MK IN CONTROLLING HORIZONTAL SPACE FROM A NEUTRAL POSITION AT CLOSE RANGE AT ALL. AT MID RANGE IT IS A NEUTRAL GUESSING GAME, AND AT LONG RANGE THE CHARACTER WHO HAS THE LEAD WILL CAMP. SHE HAS TO FAKE HIM OUT, MAKE HIM COMMIT TO SOMETHING AND AVOID IT TO PUNISH, OR KNOW HOW TO ATTEMPT TO PUNISH THE CORRECT THINGS OUT OF SHIELD LIKE HIS GROUNDED SHUTTLE LOOP OR HIS NADO. THIS MATCHUP IS ABOUT CHIP DAMAGE AND REACTING QUICKLY. THAT'S IT.

I've come close to beating Kel twice. He is a high level MK who knows the Peach/MK matchup extensively from both perspectives and yet I still brought him to within an inch of him losing each time. My point is...I know all the right things to do if I'm getting this close to beating a MK who knows the matchup (indefinitely harder than one who does not, or one who autopilots), he is simply able to get the last kill before I do. Just in case my credibility is called into question.

How about those of you who are passing along these bogus bits of information like they're fact actually learn to ask questions instead of composing statements? It doesn't hurt. When I had hit my mental limit on the matchup and didn't know what else I could possibly work on to make it comfortable to play...what did I do? I ASKED SOMEONE, I ASKED NICOLE TO GIVE ME SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DETAILS SHE KNEW ON THE MATCHUP THAT WORK. I listened, practiced it a little, and boom...beat a respectable MK right after that. I haven't had trouble with the matchup since.

/rant over, but dammit people...ask people who know what they're doing and stop spreading bull**** advice if you honestly don't know. You're only hurting other players who are trying to piece the matchup together with that habit.

 

[z00ted]

*pumps fist* amen my brother Kbizzle

these boards and dat terrible theorycrafting

everyone read this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289612


and

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm sorry, but I haven't facepalmed this hard in a while. These bits of information and suggestions I've seen about what Peach does in the MK matchup are absurd. How many of you are still getting unnecessarily ***** by his grounded shuttle loop with that mentality that any of her aerials are safe on his shield? Dear ****ing lord...learn from your mistakes against MK in the past, Peaches. It gets frustrating to see people stick to their guns with their opinons on this matchup when the only thing that happened the last time they played a remotely good MK in tournament was get ***** by him.

PEACH CANNOT COMPETE WITH MK IN CONTROLLING HORIZONTAL SPACE FROM A NEUTRAL POSITION AT CLOSE RANGE AT ALL. AT MID RANGE IT IS A NEUTRAL GUESSING GAME, AND AT LONG RANGE THE CHARACTER WHO HAS THE LEAD WILL CAMP. SHE HAS TO FAKE HIM OUT, MAKE HIM COMMIT TO SOMETHING AND AVOID IT TO PUNISH, OR KNOW HOW TO ATTEMPT TO PUNISH THE CORRECT THINGS OUT OF SHIELD LIKE HIS GROUNDED SHUTTLE LOOP OR HIS NADO. THIS MATCHUP IS ABOUT CHIP DAMAGE AND REACTING QUICKLY. THAT'S IT.

I've come close to beating Kel twice. He is a high level MK who knows the Peach/MK matchup extensively from both perspectives and yet I still brought him to within an inch of him losing each time. My point is...I know all the right things to do if I'm getting this close to beating a MK who knows the matchup (indefinitely harder than one who does not, or one who autopilots), he is simply able to get the last kill before I do. Just in case my credibility is called into question.

How about those of you who are passing along these bogus bits of information like they're fact actually learn to ask questions instead of composing statements? It doesn't hurt. When I had hit my mental limit on the matchup and didn't know what else I could possibly work on to make it comfortable to play...what did I do? I ASKED SOMEONE, I ASKED NICOLE TO GIVE ME SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DETAILS SHE KNEW ON THE MATCHUP THAT WORK. I listened, practiced it a little, and boom...beat a respectable MK right after that. I haven't had trouble with the matchup since.

/rant over, but dammit people...ask people who know what they're doing and stop spreading bull**** advice if you honestly don't know. You're only hurting other players who are trying to piece the matchup together with that habit.

Who exactly are you directing this too?

 

[Eddie G]

Anyone who passes off bogus tips like fair/bair being safe on his shield for example.

I was speaking in general.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Anyone who passes off bogus tips like fair/bair being safe on his shield for example.

I was speaking in general.

De que diablo. Looks like we are not gonna be on the same side cause. cause I disagree with that.

 

[z00ted]

nvm .. ignore this.. lol.

 

[deepseadiva]

Let me clarify some points, as I feel the simplifications are being misinterpreted.

• Peach's auto-canceled aerials are safe on shield against MK. Note: she won't be touching that shield anyway for that to matter.

• Close, mid, and long range play, in my opinion, is a matter of playstyle. In my opinion Peach holds her own in each, but is most successful being at midrange, camping at long range only to get MK in.

I do not theorycraft, all my input is based on tournament and match-up knowledgeable experience that has proven to be successful to me.

How about those of you who are passing along these bogus bits of information like they're fact actually learn to ask questions instead of composing statements?

I also feel we can do without these passive-aggressive statements as you're clearly being selective. If you're going to call someone out, have the balls to be specific. That's the only way we're going to have a constructive discussion.

Please, none of this "WELL IF SOME PEOPLE" housewife talk.

 

[z00ted]

I do not theorycraft, all my input is based on tournament and match-up knowledgeable experience that has proven to be successful to me.

I also feel we can do without these passive-aggressive statements as you're clearly being selective. If you're going to call someone out, have the balls to be specific. That's the only way we're going to have a constructive discussion.

Please, none of this "WELL IF SOME PEOPLE" housewife talk.

Let me get across some things here too, before things get blown out of porportion.

I wasn't particularly directing the "theorycraft" statement at you Meno, but the Peach boards as a whole (particularly the fair and bair are "completely" safe on shield statement).

I agree with the "WELL IF SOME PEOPLE" housewife talk statement.

 

[Eddie G]

Not in a good mood right now due to something completely unrelated, so I'll keep it short.

- My post was directed at Yaaay (no offense meant, just venting from collective frustration of "ehhhh" theorycraft observation from the boards in general over time).

- Safe on his shield? Safe on his shield from what retaliation exactly?

- Yeah yeah no housewife talk. Sure. Gotcha.

Later.

 

[Meru.]

*sigh* I'll stop.

The funny thing is my post was not theorycraft at all, it was frame data (and quite basic for that matter) aka facts... It wasnt something that would immediatly make that match-up 100-0 Peach, just a good thing to know that she is in fact sa-...

nvm it anyway. I guess I'm not good or elite enough, not even to simply highlight things :l.