Peach Tactical GD

[Peachkid]

LOL

Shutup Rick.

Anyways.



I dunno if he means restart the match, or the entire Brawl game. Hopefully it means the later, since that could actually be used faster.

This is something we can test tomorrow actually. and i can kinda see how it would work too...

like the last use of the fsmash gets registered and the game remembers it so that you wont get a pan racket or club first off on the next fsmash attempt on the next playthrough

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

LOL

Shutup Rick.

Anyways.



I dunno if he means restart the match, or the entire Brawl game. Hopefully it means the later, since that could actually be used faster.

Meno, I tease you because I love you <3
Thats very interesting though, we need to have another look into that

Oh btw Meno, you'll be pleased to know I tried B Sticking seriously today
You won't however be pleased to know that I hated every minute of it, partially because I keep doing C Stick things
I'm going to keep at it because it wouldn't be fair if I just gave up and continued to slag it off without good reason due to only using it once but the lack of Smash DI, Stutter Step, ability to consistantly Glide Toss, Instant Smashes, optimum spacing and easier SH'ed aerials in return for moving...what, a couple of inches when pulling a Turnip, something should be done from a far away distance because of how laggy it is and nowhere near mid or close range?
I was very unimpressed by free pulling and its uses, put it that way and that is the only reason to use B Sticking currently - for free pulling. Sorry Meno I'll keep at it I promise

And let me just say that I encourage everyone to actually have a proper go with using the B Stick

 

[Meru.]

jab to f tilt is a gauranteed setup if the jab is landed. this is because f tilt has less startup frames than the 2nd jab does. You just have to buffer.

Thats not very true.

Jab 1:
Duration: 19
Hits on Frame: 2
Hitbox Duration: 2-3 (2)
Cooldown: 16
Frames Jab 1 can be cancelled into second jab: 8-30

Shield stun: 1
Shield Advantage: -16
Shield drop advantage: -9

As you can see, the frames jab 1 can be cancelled into the second one is on frame 8-30. However, this only counts for the second jab, and not any other attacks such as Ftilt. They can only be 'cancelled' after the 16 frames cooldown lag, which is at frame 19. This makes Jab1 > Jab2 a whole lot faster.

But what did catch my eye is the fact that jab 1 can be cancelled into jab 2 up until frame 30. Is Jab1 > Jab 2 ALWAYS guaranteed, regardless if it has been cancelled on frame 8 or 30? Because if that's the case, Jab1 > Ftilt should be guaranteed because Ftilt will then hit on frame 25 (Jab1 = frame 2-3 + frame 16 cooldown = frame 19 + frame 6 Ftilt = frame 25). This is pretty interesting as it would mean that any move that has 11 or less frames of start-up (such as Nair, Bair, grab) would be guaranteed. BUT thats only if Jab1 > Jab2 is always guaranteed.

I hope you understand what I mean.

Something interesting I'd like to know as it could be pretty game changing. Posted this in the Ftilt thread, but this is a better place for it.

 

[deepseadiva]

And let me just say that I encourage everyone to actually have a proper go with using the B Stick

I dunno if I encourage it though. >.>

I applaud and appreciate the effort, but the transition is going to be utterly torturous. If you've played the game with a button that gives you instant smashes, disgustingly easy glidetosses, and effortlessly spaced aerials for the last two years, you're gonna really hate the bstick.

It requires you to actually work to do a lot of the things you're used to doing with a single finger movement. Thankfully I've always used the bstick, so I never had to "lose" anything.

If you manage to survive that though, I can see practicing with the bstick as a beneficial way to see when and where you can free pull without the technical obstacles standing in the way. I actually should have done the reverse with the cstick while I was learning my glidetosses.

 

[LanceStern]

Jab 1 > jab 2 is not always guaranteed. The only guaranteed I can think of is if you're holding A. I can't tell you how many times I've been shield-grabbed because I tried to stall my jabs.

But I do use jab to ftilt at high percents. It's not guaranteed but often times it knocks charactesr off their feet (especially small characters) and that lets me land the ftilt

 

[lloDownedu74]

I was playing around with the B stick today, and it is SOOO easy to free pull. So much easier than the non-Bstick way (in my opinion). I probably would use B stick, but its giving up fast smashes, easy aerials, and some other stuff for a few cool turnip tricks. I understand its uses, but its way too big of a switch for me. I'd be peach bombing like crazy trying to fsmash. Even with practice, I don't think I can get used to it... Also, for some reason, i keep on jumping with the B stick.... it's annoying X_X

But I am liking the non-Bstick free pull now. I get it like 1/10 of the time, and the rest of the time peach bombing, but with a little practice, I think I can get it down. Now bone walking seems easy lol

 

[Two-Ell]

When in a running animation Bstick inputs translate into jumps for whatever reason. So probably at times when you mean to tilt your analog stick you tap it. Instead of just turning around you run and that causes your jump when you hit down on the Bstick.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I just dont understand how to free-pull. I've done it before but that was an extremly rare occurance.

I'm just good at bone-walks lol

 

[Silly Kyle]

I've been practicing a lot of technical things with Peach lately...

It's very exciting to see the enthusiasm from other Peaches trying to learn how to free-pull.

Here is a video of me practicing the up air string:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9lR07LYBaY

Sorry for the quality!!

>

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Silly Kyle, that was awful. Just truly awful

No not the quality, the fact you used Green Peach

*voms*

 

[Silly Kyle]

Lol, well I usually use Pink Peach, but you catch my drift

 

[lloDownedu74]

Green Peach too gooddddd!!!!

Nice job, Kyle. I've always failed at the uair string lol

 

[z00ted]

Green Peach too gooddddd!!!!!
Ya'll just don't understand.

 

[LanceStern]

I ONLY use Green Peach, I just liked it for some reason. although Red Peach is nice too.

Uair string was hard for me, but I just sat and practiced like 10 minutes a day in training mode and had it in about a week. Now I can do it on command. I have to change my grip on the controller though with index finger on Y (jump) and thumb on the c stick up (smash).

Keep practicing... it is invaluable on Dedede and other heavy/big characters

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm going to do something awesome actually talk about something tactical instead of green peaches (white all the way).

After playing around with Falco for so long, and just brawl characters in general. I sort of came to the conclusion that trying to force kills is a stupid move. Even going out for ones that seem to work. It seems a much better idea to keep using moves that are safe and will slowly rack the damage on. Eventually, pretty much any move starts killing. Using those kills moves put you at so much risk and all it takes for many characters is for one mistake to start ****** you. For example, say you whiff an usmash, MK will be all over you in an instant and you'll probably take like an extra 70% of damage trying to get back to a relatively neutral position.

Now, the point I am getting to with this (as what I just said is relatively common knowledge) is about Peach's Fair. Beyond a difficult to land Usmash and sweetspotted fsmash, fair is peach's best killing move. All the other moves do not really end up killing until excess of 150%. However, Fair is also a great spacing tool. To keep using fair means to weaken one of our best killing options, however, to not use it would mean to give up one of our best spacing options.

Is it a better idea to keep using Fair in the mindset that using Fair more means I am safer, can rack on more damage, and will eventually rack on enough that I have more killing options available? Or, should I use Fair sparingly to keep it fresh so that I can kill as quickly as possible?

I am leaning for the idea that abusing Fair as much as possible is not a bad thing. If we use it enough, we are safer overall. Fair racks on a lot of damage, and it keeps us safe from a lot of attacks due to the size. Playing defensively is far more important than trying to worry about getting kills. If you are never hurt because you do little to risk yourself, you rack the damage on people, and then you get more chances to kill people.

What does everyone else think on this subject?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Pretty much exactly the same

I think a couple of people (myself included recently) have realised it simply isn't worth trying to force a kill with Peach. Just either keep up the defensivly wall or evasive running/Glide Tossing and play as safe as possible. If you kill someone then good for you

You have to find a balance between playing safe and not trying to force a kill though because if someone like MK or Wario gets a stock lead, there cna be real trouble if you don't try and work for a kill

 

[lloDownedu74]

Yes, yes, yes, xeylode, you are absolutely right about continuing to damage your opponent until an opportunity to kill comes up. That's how Samus plays from what I've seen. I was actually thinking about the use of fair recently. Its a fantastic killing move, as well as a fantastic spacing move. In my opinion, if youre going to use it as an approach, then is best to actually let your opponent power shield it so that you can follow up with double jab, turnip, jab to grab, or whatever you want to do. Unless I've been doing this completely wrong, then if your fair is shielded, then it doesn't get decayed. If it is shielded, then even though it is decayed, you still get that extra damage, which is always a good thing.

Fair is a great move, but its better of you don't use it too much for damaging. I always stress to use nair, bair, fair, jab, turnips, grabs, etc for damaging, but a lot of people can't help using fair, including me. I actually use it a lot more than I should. But, peach does have other killing moves.

Like you said, you shouldn't stop attempting to damage your opponent until you get a surefire chance to kill them. Fair is great for killing, but if you keep damaging them, then they eventually have a high enough percent for half your moves to kill.

I love fair, and I use it a lot, but a lot of the time, I actually hope that my fairs that are shielded, so that I can still do damage with other moves while saving my fair.

 

[Peachkid]

Green peach is seriously the worst costume peach has. i mean seriously they used the ugliest greens and threw up on peach's dress and said it was a costume. pshhhh now if it were dark green....that would have been much better

Now back to tactical discussion...

Following up on what LloD said, fair is one of those moves thats really **** good and would be amazing if moves didnt decay as drastically. lately i have been finding myself using fair a whole lot less and instead i do a pseudo-wall of pain with float canceled Bairs (basically Float->bair->instantly fast fall) and also lately i have been killing with ftilt sooo much more. If you are staling your fair late into a stock, just throw out a ftilt, its really too good.

/common knowledge'd

Spoiler

I just woke up not too long ago and i havent had my noms so my brain isnt working at 100 percent atm. dont hate kthnx

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Use ftilt.

Green Peach is overused.

 

[Peachkid]

Use ftilt.

Green Peach is overused.

It really shouldnt be used at all. unless you want peach to be ultra pissed off because shes put into that sack of vomit dress

Dang it i had something cool i wanted to say but i forgot DX

 

[Metatitan]

Green peach in brawl is ugly. I wish they kept melee's dark green. Wait.... why are we talking about dress colors?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Green peach in brawl is ugly. I wish they kept melee's dark green. Wait.... why are we talking about dress colors?

I was trying to avoid that ;_; But you all have this unseemly knack to evade any tactical discussion at all.

 

[Peachkid]

Green peach in brawl is ugly. I wish they kept melee's dark green. Wait.... why are we talking about dress colors?

Because we are peach mains. and we trive off *****ing about dress colors/matching shoes/tricks like hiroi and kyon.../and all that assorted jazz


sorry about avoiding tactical discussion, ill make sure to talk about more relevant things D:

 

[deepseadiva]

You know what's a really good?

It's my bread and butter, and I'm not sure you c-suckers can do it, but ledge-canceled turnip to reverse throw (back on stage) and then a float aerial. If anyone's chasing you, it gives you a quick and fluid escape, cover with an instant and unpunishable turnip pull, and puts you straight into our preferred zone: shield pressure.

Basically, totally flips a negative situation into positive situation.

 

[Razmakazi]

yeah that's pretty easy w/o the b stick. i've been tryin to just use the ledge cancelled turnips more in general just coz being pressured is hard sometimes.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Actually after giving that a try, it is really irritating to keep bombing. When I get the turnip pull right, I get it every time what you described meno. It's my **** timing for the cancel off the ledge that messes me up. I bet b-stick would make the timing easier.

 

[Peachkid]

FOR YOUR INFORMATION MENO, We c-stickers can do that little shenanigan just we need to be alittle further from the ledge and such. Its totally possible and i have done it a few times, I just usually forget an option like that exists sometimes. But here is something people should try, to cover more area faster on BF, try ledge canceling your turnips on the platforms then cancel again on the other platforms or the main stage after pulling/throwing. i did some testing but peach can whip out 3 canceled turnips out and it can actually be a pretty potent ledge guard or something

 

[Silly Kyle]

The Ultimate Defense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQhU2H1zenI

This video shows freepulling without the b-stick + reverse glidetossing as a form of defense and movement for Peach.

I'm going to say this now...

Every non b-sticking Peach MUST learn how to do this!!!

Practice! Practice! Practice!!!

We play the most technical character in Brawl. You can't be lazy!!!! This is sooooo important!!!!

 

[Airgemini]

Kyle, I LOVE Piece of Me!!!!

Nice video!

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

That was very good Kyle. I'm glad your still learning. I can barely free pull.

 

[Silly Kyle]

I've been practicing the free pull every day now and I'm pretty sure it will be part of my game, just like bonewalking is. I'm really hyped for my Peach

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I think I should be doing the same thing.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Putting in another hour tonight to perfect my freepulls without the b-stick. Very excited with the progress so far!!!!! ^_^

I don't know if this has been discovered already, but you can bonewalk and pivot the turnip pull. I'm not sure if the distance is as long as the regular bonewalk. However, I think it's kinda cool/flashy and still serves its purpose of getting away while pulling a turnip.

I'll try to get a video of it up soon...

<3

 

[deepseadiva]

The pivot might be new. I would like to see!

 

[Silly Kyle]

Bonewalk Pivot Pull (or w/e lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHUYEaSFxF8

Lulz

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Maybe I should pick up free-pulling too?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

That looks like you're doing a Fox Trot and then buffering a Free Pull Kyle. I do accidently if I get in a fluster whilst trying to do a normal Bone Walk xD

 

[lloDownedu74]

Yeah, I tried foxtrotting, turning around, and free pulling, and the result was the "Pivot Bonewalking" thing. It's pretty cool, but its a freepull, not a bonewalk, right?

 

[deepseadiva]

Yup, just a foxtrot followed by a freepull.

Kinda different, but if you get that foxtrot in, might as well do a dashpull since you'll get more distance.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Yeah it's a freepull. But bonewalking to an extent is a form of freepulling lol.

But I agree with Manny, might as well do it the regular way :-p