Official Metaknight Discussion

[Palpi]

It is NOT evenish when both players know the match up(MK vs ZSS). It is a gimmick match up. Mk wins with ease.

 

[Dark.Pch]

This thread is making wanna go and gimp meta with the frame/hitbox/invis homework I been doing with Peach.

 

[Orion*]

So what? Pound4 had scrubby rules for brawl and so does many other tourneys(ban d3 infinites? COMON).

i dont mind d3 infinite bans but then they need to ban all of the ic and wario ones to make it fair rofl.

i honestly feel it should all be legal though

edit:great post dark peach we all know secret peach stuff your talking about right now. HYPE

 

[BarDulL]

Dude you are just bad, and I'm pretty sure you are a tool.

Just wait until the next time I see you, monkey boy!

Maybe they don't require bans at all! But, if they don't, then they don't and MK isn't broken. If they do, then he is broken. That's all I have to say on the matter. Ban him, or let him reign. Stop artificially inhibiting his ability to play to win and let him reign.

Bzzzing! Wrong answer!

Here's my stab: MK's tools are...foreign, alien in comparison to the rest of the cast. He doesn't "fit" very well in competitive brawl, for his capabilities far extend past that of any other character. His potential surpasses the roster to the point in which no other character is feasibly able to mimic him. He is the only character that can feasibly time someone out to the extent that he can. In fact, most matches that seem to go to time usually involve an MK, and at the highest level of play for that matter! No other character is capable of accomplishing this, with the exception of some on select stages (falco/japes, for example!)

 

[Orion*]

Bzzzing! Wrong answer!

Here's my stab: MK's tools are...foreign, alien in comparison to the rest of the cast. He doesn't "fit" very well in competitive brawl, for his capabilities far extend past that of any other character. His potential surpasses the roster to the point in which no other character is feasibly able to mimic him. He is the only character that can feasibly time someone out to the extent that he can. In fact, most matches that seem to go to time usually involve an MK, and at the highest level of play for that matter! No other character is capable of accomplishing this, with the exception of some on select stages (falco/japes, for example!)

other than the clock out part diddy snake and ics are the same. nobody else can mimic them at all.

honestly i feel that other characters are viable for clocking people out, nobody has the patience

 

[CO18]

zss is c tier rofl. she has Potential but atm it means nothing. its my favorite matchup, and the first time i played snakee in tournament i won 2-0 a few weeks ago. he may have not been at the top of his game, or whatever i honestly dont care i realize that he is an Amazing player. the point is that i know what im talking about when i say that shes really an overrated character, because ive played against her a lot

to be fair ill make a small write up and say that she has zero options oos against mk if he knows all of her weaknesses. its a 65/35 matchup once the mk realizes all of the shenanigans and tricks she has, understands her recovery options and abuses them. if you can NOT powershield her **** on reaction (i have a good reaction time lmao) then ill say the matchup is a bit more evenish.

No not at all snakees just out of practice or w/e. Youve never played Nick riddle.
Seibrik 3-0ed snakee in a MM 2 stocking him 2 of the matches at pound.

Just this past weekend Nick riddle 3-0ed seibrik in grand finals. Theres a pretty decent distance between the two now for w/e reason. And this is even with them playing extremely often and seibrik being a very smart and adaptive player. Definitley not a 65/35 matchup.

 

[Orion*]

No not at all snakees just out of practice or w/e. Youve never played Nick riddle.
Seibrik 3-0ed snakee in a MM 2 stocking him 2 of the matches at pound.

Just this past weekend Nick riddle 3-0ed seibrik in grand finals. Theres a pretty decent distance between the two now for w/e reason. And this is even with them playing extremely often and seibrik being a very smart and adaptive player. Definitley not a 65/35 matchup.

i would love to play him. 90% of the practice time i had irl last year was mk vs zss so maybe im biased but i feel like she has no options at all.

seibrik is toogood

 

[Xebenkeck]

diddy snake and ics are the same. nobody else can mimic them at all.

No but without MK other characters will become more prominate that could deal with them, i.e. Marth, ROB, maybe Pit(we really have no clue what he is capable of.) Characters MK basically shuts down.

 

[Orion*]

No but without MK other characters will become more prominate that could deal with them, i.e. Marth, ROB, maybe Pit(we really have no clue what he is capable of.) Characters MK basically shuts down.

or maybe people can stop being lazy and main those characters and put time into them without mk having to be banned. if you have no idea what those characters are capable of that proves that theyre underdeveloped

 

[Xebenkeck]

The point i was trying to make was to counter yours, that no other charaters can mimic snake, diddy, and IC. MK shuts down the chars i mentioned, and if he were gone those characters could(potentialy) stop those 3 chars from being as dominate as MK, because they would be more prominate in the scene.

 

[solecalibur]

Of course other characters would get better if MK was gone it only makes sense since MK is the best character ....

 

[Dark.Pch]

edit:great post dark peach we all know secret peach stuff your talking about right now. HYPE

Huh? I'm confused. I have yet to explained or shown just what I am gonna be doing to him.

 

[WindMajor]

Can someone tell me how possible/impossible would it be to get the SBR to ban MK for like 3 months, for the sake of data and statistics? Just the SBR-B, I'm not asking about the TOs.

 

[Espy Rose]

The problem would be, Flan, that the TOs that are against an MK-Ban would probably have him unbanned at tournaments anyways.

Getting it typed down in the official rule-set would do nothing anyways, unless the TOs actually followed the rules directly, something which hasn't been happening since day one.

However, for the sake of gathering data, I would assume that some TOs here and there would go with it.
I guess.

 

[Dark.Pch]

IMO, I think TO would be afraid to bann meta all cause most people make money off of meta and are pros because of meta. If he was out, making that money would not be so easy and they would be losing to characters they would/never have lost to before. And I think rep and being someone on the community is what lots care about.

If this was to happen, I dont think these players would waste thier time with the tournys, and attendence would drop. TO's could be afraid of this.

Thats how I see it anyway.

 

[Orion*]

The point i was trying to make was to counter yours, that no other charaters can mimic snake, diddy, and IC. MK shuts down the chars i mentioned, and if he were gone those characters could(potentialy) stop those 3 chars from being as dominate as MK, because they would be more prominate in the scene.

so then someone else would be just as dominate as mk. no matter what happens there is going to be a best character, and there will be planking.

edit: dark pros that play meta arent good because of meta

 

[Xebenkeck]

Did even read what i wrote?

and yes planking will still exist except the master will be gone.

 

[solecalibur]

IMO, I think TO would be afraid to bann meta all cause most people make money off of meta and are pros because of meta.

Doesn't that statement prove anything?

 

[Dark.Pch]

so then someone else would be just as dominate as mk. no matter what happens there is going to be a best character, and there will be planking.

edit: dark pros that play meta arent good because of meta

The difference would be that the next best character would not be winning so much as meta would. The next best character would be snake, and people have figured him out and deal with him today. Sanke is not as cheep and broken as meta, and you have an easier time abuse Snakes weak points than meta.

Also for your edit part. I'm gonna have to disagree with that for about......being nice here.........50% of meta players.

 

[Orion*]

The difference would be that the next best character would not be winning so much as meta would. The next best character would be snake, and people have figured him out and deal with him today. Sanke is not as cheep and broken as meta, and you have an easier time abuse Snakes weak points than meta.

Also for your edit part. I'm gonna have to disagree with that for about......being nice here.........50% of meta players.

im the good 50 right? ;D

and lmao if they ban mk i hope ics **** EVERYONE

 

[Eddie G]

edit: dark pros that play meta arent good because of meta

Sorry...but aside from M2K and a small handful of others...I call bull****.

 

[Xebenkeck]

and lmao if they ban mk i hope ics **** EVERYONE

MK is not the only character that can beat the IC's.

But i will admit, if that were to happen it be pretty funny in hignsight.

 

[Jack Kieser]

IMO, I think TO would be afraid to bann meta all cause most people make money off of meta and are pros because of meta. If he was out, making that money would not be so easy and they would be losing to characters they would/never have lost to before. And I think rep and being someone on the community is what lots care about.

If this was to happen, I dont think these players would waste thier time with the tournys, and attendence would drop. TO's could be afraid of this.

Thats how I see it anyway.

I don't really think this is accurate, or as accurate as we'd think. Most of the people quitting are doing so because of Meta; I'd hazard a guess that those people coming back were helping to boost Xyro's attendance numbers at his MK-banned events. All of the people being forced to play MK would just play their main, no problem there, and not every pro wants MK to stay, so obviously they'd still come. The only people who'd leave would be the pro MK's and few legit low- and mid- MK players.

...but because every player has the same entry fee, regardless of how "pro" they are, it's not like having a few pros leave would have more impact than having a bunch of lesser players leave because of MK. Not to mention, having more easy players should be an incentive for OTHER pros to go.

Hell, there's a perfectly logical possibility that having MK banned at your event, as long as it's well publicized and advertised, could boost attendance past normal amounts.

 

[BarDulL]

other than the clock out part diddy snake and ics are the same. nobody else can mimic them at all.

honestly i feel that other characters are viable for clocking people out, nobody has the patience

Hmm...I see! True, Snake, ICs, and Diddy are all unique characters. However! That is not the context I had intended "mimic" to be interpreted as!

Each of these characters has a strategy in which they rack up damage, and then kill. In essence, they operate in the same fashion.

However! MK does not have to operate in this fashion. Emphasis on "have to!" There are other fashions in which he can apply himself, and that is the problem!

When discussing MK strategies, there are three in particular that come up, although one isn't nearly as viable as the rest. But, I digress.

1. Planking!
2. Air camping!
3. Scrooging!

Planking and Scrooging are self explanatory. These are fashions MK can operate in aside from "playing normally," to which I mean "racking up damage and then killing the opponent." Both of these strategies can not be mimic'd to the extent that MK is capable of, and these are winning strategies!

Air camping hasn't proven itself to be entirely unbeatable in tournament, so to this end I will concede! However, air camping near an edge is a very powerful tool...and with 5 jumps, it is very difficult for the opponent to catch the Metaknight. This is also another tool in which MK can not be mimic'd to the extent that he is capable of.

As for other characters having the capability to clock someone out...hmm, that is a tough call! In a world without Metaknight, I would presume that Wario might be the most capable of producing such a feat, but to this end I am uncertain. It's not too often that you see a Wario clocking someone out, hah.

 

[Limeee]

who cares if the pro's leave? just leaves more room for others to step up.


and if you ban meta (please do so) give smashboards about a month heads up so the meta players can at least learn a new character

 

[Espy Rose]

and lmao if they ban mk i hope ics **** EVERYONE

Diddy, Snake, and ROB should be enough to stop that.

Hell, even Sonic goes even with them.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Diddy, Snake, and ROB should be enough to stop that.

Hell, even Sonic goes even with them.

ZOMG Zelda for top tiers??????

Nah

 

[swordgard]

Diddy, Snake, and ROB should be enough to stop that.

Hell, even Sonic goes even with them.

lololol.


Your ignorance makes me go : )

 

[M@v]

Diddy, Snake, and ROB should be enough to stop that.

Hell, even Sonic goes even with them.

....*snicker*.....heh...hehe..


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Ripple]

Diddy, Snake, and ROB should be enough to stop that.

Hell, even Sonic goes even with them.

you forgot yoshi too.

but I have a problem. people say planking has't been proven ban worthy. YOU KNOW WHY?

its because MK is the only character that can deal with it and since there are so many MK running around there is no reason to time out another MK because it would be too risky

planking/camping can never be proven ban worthy

 

[BarDulL]

you forgot yoshi too.

but I have a problem. people say planking has't been proven ban worthy. YOU KNOW WHY?

its because MK is the only character that can deal with it and since there are so many MK running around there is no reason to time out another MK because it would be too risky

planking/camping can never be proven ban worthy

Hmm...well! Technically, it could be deemed ban worthy in the eyes of the BBR if we changed the stalling rule's wording to cover planking. However, I do not believe this will happen any time soon. Or it may. Hrmm. It would be very difficult to draw a line between stalling and planking though, as it is hard to tell if someone is simply "putting themselves in an advantageous position" or "stalling," in regards to planking.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I don't really think this is accurate, or as accurate as we'd think. Most of the people quitting are doing so because of Meta; I'd hazard a guess that those people coming back were helping to boost Xyro's attendance numbers at his MK-banned events. All of the people being forced to play MK would just play their main, no problem there, and not every pro wants MK to stay, so obviously they'd still come. The only people who'd leave would be the pro MK's and few legit low- and mid- MK players.

...but because every player has the same entry fee, regardless of how "pro" they are, it's not like having a few pros leave would have more impact than having a bunch of lesser players leave because of MK. Not to mention, having more easy players should be an incentive for OTHER pros to go.

Hell, there's a perfectly logical possibility that having MK banned at your event, as long as it's well publicized and advertised, could boost attendance past normal amounts.

I depends on what is more important. pros leaving and not making money as easy as they would? Or people finding this game more enjoyable. and more characters rising and meta games advancing.

If the second option was to happen, then a point would have been proving, and I think people are afraid of that. Or Pro meta players would be complaining and the TO/BBR would feel bad or etc.

When money is on the line, people just don't give a darn. Human nature. Everyone wants money, simple as that. And will take the easy road no matter how much of a tool it makes them look or seen as to do it. M2K did not give a **** whem he timed out 8 people in bracket with meta at pound. Even when he had three stocks and the enemy had one, he did not fight. He did it to Ally and I heard ally lost respect for him cause of it. But again, M2K does not care. As long as he makes that money. Same with everyone else that is on the same boat

who cares if the pro's leave? just leaves more room for others to step up.

Thats what I think people are afraid of.

im the good 50 right? ;D

and lmao if they ban mk i hope ics **** EVERYONE

Peach beats them. Don't know why people for get this. She beats IC, Diddy, olimar, wario and has an even fight with DDD/falco.

 

[theunabletable]

Hmm...well! Technically, it could be deemed ban worthy in the eyes of the BBR if we changed the stalling rule's wording to cover planking. However, I do not believe this will happen any time soon. Or it may. Hrmm. It would be very difficult to draw a line between stalling and planking though, as it is hard to tell if someone is simply "putting themselves in an advantageous position" or "stalling," in regards to planking.

You know what I don't understand? How people don't have trouble in Melee telling the difference between Peach using the Peach Bomber against a wall a few times to recover but were able to tell when she was doing it endlessly for 8 minutes to stall, yet people can't figure out the difference between using the IDC for 8 straight minutes/grabbing and regrabbing the ledge for 8 minutes.

Why does Melee not have this problem?

planking/camping can never be proven ban worthy

How so? If MK starts winning all tournaments by planking, then we might be able to agree that it is not ban-worthy, but MK HIMSELF isn't even winning all tournaments.

Actually I'd like to know, what makes something ban-worthy?

Can someone answer that for me, please? I would really like to know what makes a character ban-worthy in Smash.

Peach beats them. Don't know why people for get this. She beats IC, Diddy, olimar, wario and has an even fight with DDD/falco.

How the hell does Brawl Peach beat Brawl ICs?

I mean this isn't Melee...

How the hell does she do it?

 

[Espy Rose]

lololol.


Your ignorance makes me go : )

What do you got?

Oh, that's right, pivot grab.
My mistake.

 

[Exceladon City]

What do you got?

Oh, that's right, pivot grab.
My mistake.

Kill Nana and bthrow Popo. Hell kill Nana, get the lead and run like a black man that owes child support. I'm black and I can make this joke.

 

[Ripple]

Why does Melee not have this problem? How so? If MK starts winning all tournaments by planking, then we might be able to agree that it is not ban-worthy, but MK HIMSELF isn't even winning all tournaments.

Actually I'd like to know, what makes something ban-worthy?

Can someone answer that for me, please? I would really like to know what makes a character ban-worthy in Smash.

How the hell does Brawl Peach beat Brawl ICs?

I mean this isn't Melee...

How the hell does she do it?

melee has an offensive engine. you have greater bonuses for attacking someone than running away

MK can't win a tournament by planking because the character who can beat planking is MK. in a MK ditto, you cannot (shouldn't)win by time out

I would answer what makes something bannable but its very long. basically if its overcentralizing or pick MK or lose

its probably even, no top peach has played a top IC except for maybe drk.pch and meep

 

[theunabletable]

@Oreo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt2saWkQ0iY&feature=related

Doesn't seem to always work.

But, Idk, I haven't played a good Sonic with my ICs, so that video could be blatantly wrong, or something.

@Ripple: Bah we posted at practically the same time, gimme a minute to edit in a reply so I don't double post.

basically if its overcentralizing or pick MK or lose

Well it's not at the point where it's "pick MK or lose" yet. And by overcentralizing, what EXACTLY do you mean? In WoW the term would get thrown around a lot for when it gets to a point where it's "play this comp or die". If it means the same thing here in Brawl, then I already answered this. It's not at the point where you have to play MK or lose.

 

[Hylian]

Jack Kieser you comments are generally false and incredibly biased. You don't even go to Hobos, I would know considering I've been to almost every single one starting with Hobo1. At one of the recent hobos we held a vote at the venue with people standing on different sides of the room if we wanted mk banned that tournament at an originally mk banned tournament. Mk was legal that event because the vast majority of texas players are anti-ban. And that was with pretty much every mk main in texas ABSENT from that tournament. The non mk players voted for mk to be legal. Not that you would know that, considering you don't attend tournaments here save maybe whobo.

It's fine to want mk banned, everyone is entitled to their opinions but you are stating false things as true facts and it's just incredibly biased. Almost none of your posts so far have been reasonable. Please, read over what you say and realize that your emotions regarding mk might be getting in the way of your logic. You hardly know anything about the tournament scene, you don't attend tournaments here, and you never have. I have only seen you at one texas tournament and that was whobo.

You were fine in person and I enjoyed talking with you but your posts just seem to be filled with hatred almost for mk and they seem tunnel visioned, open to nothing but what you want. You are not discussing the issue you are almost to the point where you are just degrading others for wanting him legal among other things.

I'm sorry if you feel offended by this post and I hope nothing will change next time I see you in person.

lololol.


Your ignorance makes me go : )

He's not ignorant. He has a TON of experience vs my IC's and while I generally have been beating him it's always close and I've always been considered a better player than him. I honestly think a lot of people are really ignorant when it comes to sonic and also believe sonic vs IC's to be very even or very very very slightly in IC's favor. I highly doubt you have played a sonic near espys level honestly, I've played sonics all over the US, the only one I'm really missing is _X_.

....*snicker*.....heh...hehe..


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Espy would destroy you with sonic, and I would be in the background laughing like this .

 

[theunabletable]

^I'm pretty sure X will be at SCSA 5.

I'll make sure to MM him on Saturday and see what the matchup is like.

I suck, though, so I'll probably lose no matter what anyways

Come to SoCal and go to some tourneys! X has been going to a lot of SoCal tourneys lately so you'd probably be able to play him.

 

[Cook]

People who don't think Peach beats ICs are ********. Why do you think Lain uses DDD or Marth against Peach players? Because Peach is great against ICs. Have you ever tried to grab a Peach that doesn't want to get grabbed? Try grabbing one with the worst grab in the game. Her moves have no lag, she can land whenever and wherever she wants, and her moves separate them really well. Anyway, it's dumb in general to think ICs would dominate with MK gone. Without MK, Snake will be the best character. He ***** ICs. Hard to dominate when you can't beat the best character. Peach, on the other hand, will be WAY better without MK because he is the only person that is REALLY bad for her. No MK means more Peaches, means watch out ICs.