Official Metaknight Discussion

[Asdioh]

I think we should all wait for ADHD to explain what he meant >.>

EDIT:
1. Asdioh, don't do that
2. I Lol'd

1. I'm sorry
2. Me too
3. Overswarm would've done something similar, I'd bet

 

[Overswarm]

Just beat me to it.

 

[OfTheEarth]

Is anything being done about this issue?
Because if not, we're just wasting time when we could be learning the match up or learning MK. 0_o

 

[St. Viers]

Since people seem to need translation..:/

Nobody use shadow beating me this weekend as an excuse for banning the char, seriously lol. He's beaten me many times before this. I know this is random, but people are definitely getting at this, and I'm sorry I gave some dog food to them.

Please don't use the fact that Shadow beat me this weekend as an excuse for banning metaknight: this isn't a recent development, shadow is just able to counter my diddy. I know me posting this is random, but I also know people are going to use that set as an argument, and I'm sorry I gave them pro-ban ammunition.

 

[salaboB]

Since people seem to need translation..:/



Please don't use the fact that Shadow beat me this weekend as an excuse for banning metaknight: this isn't a recent development, shadow is just able to counter my diddy. I know me posting this is random, but I also know people are going to use that set as an argument, and I'm sorry I gave them pro-ban ammunition.

Two thumbs up, would have translated again.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Xyro not to call you out or anything but name a melee team that didn't have a fox on their team that won a tournament or made in the top 16 like ever.

(Husband and Wife...)

That's about it literally, there have been rare occasions such as Darc and Scar but for the most part you need a fox on your team or you lose.

who did ken and isai use?

 

[Tien2500]

How about we don't use Shadow beating ADHD to support pro ban.

But then we stop using ADHD over M2K for anti-ban.

 

[Spelt]

Ooo this sounds fun, i'll translate what ADHD said:

People. Meta Knight needs to be banned already. Stop being useless and do something good for Brawl's metagame. I mean come on, Shadow beat me. Meta Knight definitely hard counters Diddy.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

He's broken because of a tactic that's currently being limited and that the best (and even mediocre) MKs aren't using? He's broken because, if done perfectly (meaning that plenty of MKs who use this tactic don't use it correctly) there's only one way to beat his planking?

Really?

Only one?

I don't mean to grasp at straws here, but doesn't that still make it a beatable tactic? Furthermore, doesn't the fact that the best MKs refrain from using this tactic mean that it's not as big an issue as it's being made out to be?

If by "one" you mean "grabbing the ledge from an MK with all his jumps, his two glides, and his incredible offstage game". While you are stuck in ledge lag, MK can use his tornado or glide over to the other side and plank there. Also, you're in a dangerous position to get spiked if you don't get yourself up on stage. In short: you're taking MK's incredibly good (unbeatable) position from him, putting yourself in a position to almost certainly be punished. Or, if the MK doesn't feel safe punishing you, he can just run to the other edge. So this "one" way around it is honestly worse than doing nothing. There is no projectile that the MK can't dodge by either dropping a little further/going under the stage, or using the downB plank method (which works against projectiles like PK thunder where the user has to steer it).

Read DMG's thread.

Think about it, plenty of characters need things banned to remain legal. Granted, these are surgical bans which we're all now conditioned to despise, but walk-off stages are banned because of D3 (amongst few other things). ICs freeze glitch in Melee was banned for them to remain legal. Stalling was banned in order for stall-capable character to remain legal.

How is planking any different, especially since there are rules in place to limit it? [/COLOR][/B]

Make me a subjective, discreet rule? Planking has the disadvantags as opposed to those things that a) it abuses a simple game mechanic (grabbing the ledge) b) it can't be held in check subjectively; at best a LGL and c) if you want a LGL, use my gay stage rule instead; it fixes the problem the same way but also balances MK.

What decides the limit between overcentralizing and simply playing the role as the best character?

RTFT.

We've gone over this several times. MK is more dominant than Sagat. More dominant than Fox. More broken than SF2T Akuma.

Why are we catering to players who don't want to deal with a character that's widely accepted as beatable? There are plenty of respectable competitive games that have obstacles comparable to MK that are the cause of some players quitting...why tailor the rules to their needs?

They bring money, sure. They bring some form of competition. However, there's an inherent issue with the idea of sacrificing competition for the sake of larger pots and less *****ing.

Why should we cater to players who don't want to deal with a character who's been widely proven both broken, overcentralizing, and EVERYWHERE?

If it's unbeatable, then it's unbeatable. Your first quote says different though, and it's obviously not being practiced as much as it should in real tourney play because not every MK is using it. Also, there are ledge limits...why is planking still an issue with ledge limits?

See above. I mean it's unbeatable BECAUSE THE ONLY OPTION THAT IS AVAILABLE IS PUTTING YOURSELF AT A MASSIVE RISK FOR NO GOOD PAYOFF!

Marth has a few counters just like MK has a few characters that can viably contend against him in tournament play. They both limit the same way.

Yes, but you CAN counter him. CP DK, DDD, etc against him. It is incredibly doubtful that he will be close to as dominant as MK.

Oh, that's an easy one - A lingering hitbox projectile fired from below the stage.

It's just that MK would be gimping you and not planking if you were over there. :|

Nah. Doesn't work either. Just resorts to DownB.

YOU said that, in a nutshell, M2K is not properly playing the match-up. If he were playing it correctly, then ADHD, who's an outlier and far beyond any other Diddy, would not win vs M2K.

That would make him virtually unbeatable to any other Diddy besides ADHD who still wouldn't be winning nearly as frequently as now.

Therefore, since the best MK in the world isn't playing the match-up correctly and MK is still being debated as overcentralizing the game and unbeatable by anything but outliers...WHO exactly is using MK in the way that's being described? M2K obviously isn't.

Who's doing this planking? Who's playing the way that MK SHOULD be played and, consequently, should be banned for?

Before you see me use the word "unbeatable" and boygasm (DA K.I.D. copyright) all over the place because you've found an unrelated "hole" in my argument, actually read my post and see the point I'm making.

You know what's funny? People don't WANT to plank! That's right, most people want to keep some shroud of purity in their playstyle. We've proven over and over again that LGLs are scrubby rules; far more scrubby than just outright banning MK; they still get used for some reason. And even without them, MKs don't want to plank. Well, other than the smart ones (OS for example) who are willing to play gay for their cash. There's somehow this "honor code".

Then again, other MKs are smarting up. Like M2K; he planked Ally at P4. And won. Or that team that planked, should've been DQ'd, and got their win that way.

Nobody use shadow beating me this weekend as an excuse for banning the char, seriously lol. He's beaten me many times before this. I know this is random, but people are definitely getting at this, and I'm sorry I gave some dog food to them.

I think he's trying to say that one MK has finally learned the matchup and that MK in reality ***** Diddy and should be banned.
*eats dog food*

Pwnd ADHD.

Basically, what you seem to be saying is that M2K doesn't know the matchup. As in, "Of course I can beat the best MK in the world! He, as many other diddies have reported, DOES NOT KNOW THE MATCHUP.

Since people seem to need translation..:/



Please don't use the fact that Shadow beat me this weekend as an excuse for banning metaknight: this isn't a recent development, shadow is just able to counter my diddy. I know me posting this is random, but I also know people are going to use that set as an argument, and I'm sorry I gave them pro-ban ammunition.

Shadow can beat you... why? You beat all the other top MKs. Could it be that Shadow is just good against Diddy?

 

[<π]

Redhalberd actually ***** that last point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzH-3EWYQSA

Check that vid out. It shows that Tornado Spam works against everyone. Including the BEST SNAKE. It's merely the degree.

MK is NOT hard to use. He is all bout spacing and figuring out which option brings the most reward (as opposed to which option doesn't get me punished, lol). Look at Ally-never used MK, picks him up randomly, and becomes top 10 in the nation with MK just like that!

He's been top ten in the nation.

Ally beats tornado spam MKs with falcon we've all seen it. M2K understands that tornadon is a good move but even it has its limitations and exploitable weaknesses. you will not win with tornado you have to understand the basics of the game spacing zoning baiting etc. before you can think of advancing to high level play. just picking MK won't land you there and that is my point.
MK is very option rich and it takes a certain player to understand and pick the best options. A lot of people assume tornado is always the best answer and it rarely ever is.

 

[Spelt]

He's been top ten in the nation.

matchup experience. it's needed.

Ally beats MKs with falcon we've all seen it.

yeah ... doesn't really matter what move your using. if he beats you he beats you.

 

[Orion*]

i dont know if budget cadet is trolling or if he is a complete idiot

 

[MarKO X]

tornado has its limitations.
planking does not.

 

[Orion*]

Yes, but you CAN counter him. CP DK, DDD, etc against him. It is incredibly doubtful that he will be close to as dominant as MK.

how do you expect people to take your mu numbers when you post this garbage? LOL

neither of those matches are "counters" in our current metagame. in fact far from it. especially dk.

 

[Allied]

yo btw for the commentary on ADHD vs shadow

don't get it wrong

I <3333 overswarm hes a cool guy :D

go back to ur meta discussion

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I think ADHD is trying to say it's more of a player vs player thing more than it's a Character vs Character thing.

Just like it is when he beats M2K right?

 

[Master Raven]

Ally didn't just "randomly" pick MK and start winning tournies, he's been using him for a long time before that.

 

[Overswarm]

yo btw for the commentary on ADHD vs shadow

don't get it wrong

I <3333 overswarm hes a cool guy :D

go back to ur meta discussion

Your commentary was AWESOME. I didn't like the random profanities and stuff, but you guys had a natural talent for it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

i dont know if budget cadet is trolling or if he is a complete idiot

how do you expect people to take your mu numbers when you post this garbage? LOL

neither of those matches are "counters" in our current metagame. in fact far from it. especially dk.

Says the person who hasn't made a single good post this thread. STILL HASN'T. Someone back me up here? I don't know if Orion is posting or smashing his head against a keyboard.

Your first post is nothing but a bad troll post, your second requires an explanation. What I'm saying is not "Marth has matchups where you can just pick char X and stage Y and win"; what I'm saying is "It is more than possible to put marth at a disadvantage by counterpicking smartly". You can't do that to MK.

 

[CRASHiC]

how do you expect people to take your mu numbers when you post this garbage? LOL

neither of those matches are "counters" in our current metagame. in fact far from it. especially dk.

according to both matchup boards, DDD does have an advantage against Marth, either 60-40 or 65-35.

 

[etecoon]

Says the person who hasn't made a single good post this thread. STILL HASN'T. Someone back me up here? I don't know if Orion is posting or smashing his head against a keyboard.

expected "Says the person that got punched by inui"/10

according to both matchup boards, DDD does have an advantage against Marth, either 60-40 or 65-35.

character boards are worthless

granted I DO think DDD beats marth, not that badly though, but referencing character board MU threads = failure

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well if both of them say it's a pretty hard counter... who are we to argue?

 

[Espy Rose]

Doesn't Donkey Kong give Marth a hard time as well?
Heard somewhere that that was the case.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It's what I heard too, but I wouldn't bet that it would matter. With less MK, you have more DDD. Any DDD, no DK, lol.

 

[CRASHiC]

granted I DO think DDD beats marth, not that badly though, but referencing character board MU threads = failure

I can say nothing about the Marth boards, but I can say that you can trust Gates to run the DDD board correctly. He approaches any sign of changes to numbers with high sceptisim, and disregards anything unproven, even if said from a top D3, such as C018 and Seibrik claiming that DDD goes even with ICs, an opinion that was changed quickly at Pound 4.

 

[fkacyan]

Doesn't Donkey Kong give Marth a hard time as well?
Heard somewhere that that was the case.

ZANGOOSE?! Respect+10

I've heard mixed things on the DK matchup - Honestly, how many DKs are there for that to be tested accurately on a regular basis? - But I think the D3 vs Marth MU is 65:35 in D3's favor if not worse. And Orion knows my opinion, too, and his extremely practiced Marth loses to my three-hour D3. xP

 

[Asdioh]

Why are you guys debating Marth so much? Marth has GLARING WEAKNESSES while MK doesn't :\

Hell, I think Fox goes pretty even with Marth.

If anyone seriously thinks Marth is going to somehow become super amazing with MK gone, -_-@them

I personally think a lot more characters will become "more viable" with MK out of the picture, but none of them, including marth, will start dominating everything.

 

[Espy Rose]

ZANGOOSE?! Respect+10

I've heard mixed things on the DK matchup - Honestly, how many DKs are there for that to be tested accurately on a regular basis? - But I think the D3 vs Marth MU is 65:35 in D3's favor if not worse. And Orion knows my opinion, too, and his extremely practiced Marth loses to my three-hour D3. xP

****IT.
I can't not like you now!

Yeah, Zangoose is the greatest. It's Zangoose Day, so I thought I'd celebrate.
Zangoose will make an appearance as my avy+sig theme sometime again soon (I sported a Zangoose theme sometime back last winter), but today's a special occassion.

Completely off topic. Ummmmm

Well, either way, Marth won't be anywhere near as dominant as MK is.

 

[fkacyan]

****IT.
I can't not like you now!

Yeah, Zangoose is the greatest. It's Zangoose Day, so I thought I'd celebrate.
Zangoose will make an appearance as my avy+sig theme sometime again soon (I sported a Zangoose theme sometime back last winter), but today's a special occassion.

Completely off topic. Ummmmm

Well, either way, Marth won't be anywhere near as dominant as MK is.

It's Zangoose Day.

Dear lord, that is awesome.

And coming from somebody who agrees with the temp ban philosophy, it's less "THIS SPECIFIC CHARACTER WILL" and more "You can't prove that some character won't, and it makes sense for us to check to make sure what you think will happen actually will.

 

[OverLade]

ADHD, are you say that Shadow beating you isn't evidence that MK clearly beats Diddy if you know the matchup properly?

 

[Espy Rose]

Dear lord, that is awesome.

And coming from somebody who agrees with the temp ban philosophy, it's less "THIS SPECIFIC CHARACTER WILL" and more "You can't prove that some character won't, and it makes sense for us to check to make sure what you think will happen actually will.

Agreed. Zangoose Day is amazing. It's because 3/9 in Japanese sounds like "Zangoose" (I believe it's pronounced "san-kyu"?). The internet just ran with the idea, supposedly.

I've saved so many great artwork that's been uploaded today. My poor computer. And the artwork keeps coming!!

=====

I agree too. I'm 100% temp-ban. Anti-ban's got no legitimate reason to go against a possible temporary ban of Meta Knight.

 

[Gnes]

ADHD, are you say that Shadow beating you isn't evidence that MK clearly beats Diddy if you know the matchup properly?

This is getting good...


also

MY SIG IS BACK WORKING YAY!!!!

 

[OfTheEarth]

This is getting good...


also

MY SIG IS BACK WORKING YAY!!!!

who is that beautiful siren in your sig O_o

 

[CRASHiC]

Agreed. Zangoose Day is amazing. It's because 3/9 in Japanese sounds like "Zangoose" (I believe it's pronounced "san-kyu"?). The internet just ran with the idea, supposedly.

I've saved so many great artwork that's been uploaded today. My poor computer. And the artwork keeps coming!!

=====

I agree too. I'm 100% temp-ban. Anti-ban's got no legitimate reason to go against a possible temporary ban of Meta Knight.

Well, they do, as its unfair for Metaknight players to go a distance without using Metaknight. That would be 1 reason, though I disagree with it.

This is getting good...


also

MY SIG IS BACK WORKING YAY!!!!

My sig is better.

I've been with a girl who tried that **** while I was in her, it ****ing hurts. Your sig is lies.

 

[Espy Rose]

Well, they do, as its unfair for Metaknight players to go a distance without using Metaknight. That would be 1 reason, though I disagree with it.

That doesn't sound convincing in the least, honestly.

Besides, if they complained about having to pick up another character so soon, then just give them some kind of a warning before any type of temporary ban came into effect. I'd think an advisory would suffice for that kind of situation.

Besides, they'd start having to do what a large chunk of other players have to do when they're up against a difficult matchup; they now have to counterpick characters.

 

[Overswarm]

This is getting good...


also

MY SIG IS BACK WORKING YAY!!!!

I thought the same thing, gnes, but in reverse order.

 

[OverLade]

My sig is better.

Dancing asian girl > skinny white girl

GGs.

 

[CRASHiC]

She's Pakistani, and her legs and figure are perfection.

 

[etecoon]

gness' signature is better

why is this more entertaining than the actual MK ban discussion lol

 

[CRASHiC]

gness' signature is better

why is this more entertaining than the actual MK ban discussion lol

I've actually been working on a thread dedicated to the subject of women. It'll be up today.

Its because women counter everything. Its why some people will temp ban women, so they can focus on other things and get **** done that needs to be and see how their life is without women, but women are too fun, so it never becomes permanent.