Official Metaknight Discussion

[Cold Fusion]

5 & 6. MK will be banned for a long period of time, but new discoveries will happen, and MK will eventually be unbanned seeing as there are ways to deal with him not known to us at this time..

How would we know these discoveries are useful against MK with him gone? I can only think of friendlies, but they are generally disregarded in determining something is useful.

 

[salaboB]

How would we know these discoveries are useful against MK with him gone? I can only think of friendlies, but they are generally disregarded in determining something is useful.

Friendlies and the (more serious) MMs would likely be able to determine it.

 

[CRASHiC]

How would we know these discoveries are useful against MK with him gone? I can only think of friendlies, but they are generally disregarded in determining something is useful.

Didn't the Iraq war teach you anything? Look, their are known knowns, there are known unknowns which are things we know we don't know and then there are unknown uknowns which are things we don't know we don't know. Get it?

this troll face is © by CRASHiC

 

[MarKO X]

why do people always forget about the unknown knowns... the things we didn't know we knew?

 

[salaboB]

why do people always forget about the unknown knowns... the things we didn't know we knew?

They ignore their dreams.

 

[Kewkky]

why do people always forget about the unknown knowns... the things we didn't know we knew?

Oh man, I had a random "Da Awesome Seibrik Combo" moment.



on-topic: GTFO MK

 

[Player-1]

idk if this is a hack or not but it's funny as ****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtUN103yfLs&feature=sub

 

[Dark 3nergy]

he says fight me, then all he does is cape and SD

GGs

 

[gallax]

holy h3ll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats crazy.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

cant wario do that extremely high jump glitch on the bike at temple?

 

[Player-1]

ganondorf can do a super jump with warlock punch, ban ganondorf.

 

[Dre89]

I would've thought that if MK's removal would make several other characters viable, the ban would be warranted because it is bettering the community overall.

If it doesn't, then there probably wouldn't be any need to ban him, because if top tiers are still going to be the only viable characters, then really keeping MK on only really affects the viablility of other high tiers.

 

[Dantarion]

Hey, check out this....oh, never mind.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

congratulations on trolling pro-ban

i always knew some dude playing B+ BB B- would post the ultimate troll bait

 

[Dantarion]

? I didn't troll anyone.....

 

[Espy Rose]

Don't worry about it. Darkz loves to troll people.

It might've been asked before, but exactly what are we waiting for right now? The arguments have kinda died down, and now there's nothing to read in here other than troll-posts like Darkz's.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well, we have G&W's frame data. His planking is very much beatable.

 

[ph00tbag]

Mine is better

Yours looks like a butt made it. Mine is professional.

This is EXACTLY what we are trying to prevent (we being the sane pro-bans). Specifically that the BBR loses power/authority, and that the community splits in half.

This is certainly a reasonable position to take. But the community is already split. People will quit no matter what decision is made. This has already been pointed out:

Well should we be *******s back and really kill the brawl scene, or continue schooling any and all counterarguments with reason until either the smash scene dies or everyone except M2K and Omni is pro-ban?

and there's a rather large number of TO's claiming that they won't ban MK even if the BBR says they should, that's no different than if pro ban just started banning him now.

Ultimately, it's hard to see a positive outcome here. If the BBR recommends to ban MK, people quit, some TO's refuse to ban him anyway, the community dies because there's no cohesion. The BBR makes no decision, people slowly quit until the community dies. The BBR says they will not ban MK, people quit, and the community becomes a sea of MK mains with ADHD floating on the surface.

I don't know, I think the game and community will be better with MK banned, and even though it's clear most people in this thread agree, I get absolutely no sense of urgency when I read that. Clearly, something has to be done, because this is all pretty defeatist.

 

[CRASHiC]

Something I hear a lot:

Dedede would rise back up.

put next to

Ice Climbers would rise.

No no no no no. You ban Metaknight, you unleash hell onto DDD. The IC matchup far trumps the Metaknight matchup. DDD will not become more popular in a world where ICs are more viable.

Also, my women thread is up for those who were discussing it earlier.

 

[studly]

Just thought I'd pop in here and say...

Larry took M2K to game 3 last stock super duper close and almost won (barely lost), then Ally beats M2K 3-1 and M2K gets third...

BAN META KNIGHT, OBV

seriously im beginning to question why therz anyone left who has the motivation to argue that meta shouldn't be banned

but now that i think about it, i dont really understand why anyone still argues or debates him at all anymore

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Something I hear a lot:



put next to



No no no no no. You ban Metaknight, you unleash hell onto DDD. The IC matchup far trumps the Metaknight matchup. DDD will not become more popular in a world where ICs are more viable.

Also, my women thread is up for those who were discussing it earlier.

Compare the number of good ICs to the number of good MKs. :V

 

[solecalibur]

I still enjoyed that one tounry I went to with OS since he and his friend were the only metaknights there so they decided not to play him and it was quite more enjoyable to watch , They also did fairly good also

 

[CRASHiC]

Compare the number of good ICs to the number of good MKs. :V

They are about the same as the number of good DDDs, and without Metaknight to discourage players from using them, they are going to be able to knock DDDs out pretty quickly. The only advantages DDD has in this enviroment from the matchup charts is an increase in Marth, and a decrease in Falcos.

 

[Overswarm]

They are about the same as the number of good DDDs, and without Metaknight to discourage players from using them, they are going to be able to knock DDDs out pretty quickly. The only advantages DDD has in this enviroment from the matchup charts is an increase in Marth, and a decrease in Falcos.

There are currently 239 MKs, 151 Snakes, 74 Falcos, 73 D3s, 72 Marths, 69 Diddys, and 46 ICs.

This does not account for the potential of duplicate names coming into Ankoku's rankings (where I got them from) and this is only for top 8.

This also does not account for a player merely using them as a secondary, nor does it account for someone only using the character rarely. These are raw numbers that give you a general idea of a characters popularity.

 

[CRASHiC]

Really? Wow, I'm surprised. What about at top level though? I think there they become equal. We can count the top DDDs and the top ICs on one hand.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Just a note: in Japan Fox is considered high tier because Pikachu and Sheik are non-existent in the tournament scene. Just saying

I don't think ICs will ever be as big a problem for anyone as MK is though. ICs may counter your character but you're about as likely to see a good one in most tourneys as you are to see most low tiers.

 

[OfTheEarth]

Just a note: in Japan Fox is considered high tier because Pikachu and Sheik are non-existent in the tournament scene. Just saying

I don't think ICs will ever be as big a problem for anyone as MK is though. ICs may counter your character but you're about as likely to see a good one in most tourneys as you are to see most low tiers.

I agree, and the IC's game is the chain grabbing. They don't have much else to work with unlike MK.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Is that ever not true.

ICs have way more than chaingrabbing to work with.

 

[OfTheEarth]

yes but not to the extent of MK

 

[Overswarm]

Really? Wow, I'm surprised. What about at top level though? I think there they become equal. We can count the top DDDs and the top ICs on one hand.

This is a fairly standard ratio at top level play as a whole. Different tournaments show different ratios.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

They are about the same as the number of good DDDs, and without Metaknight to discourage players from using them, they are going to be able to knock DDDs out pretty quickly. The only advantages DDD has in this enviroment from the matchup charts is an increase in Marth, and a decrease in Falcos.

I really disagree on this.

In current tournaments, you are 100% certain to encounter at least one, usually multiple MKs. When was the last time you saw an ICs (who have a winnable matchup against MK, I might add-MK boards had it as 50/50 for a while) player?

 

[Espy Rose]

I don't think ICs will ever be as big a problem for anyone as MK is though. ICs may counter your character but you're about as likely to see a good one in most tourneys as you are to see most low tiers.

Not to mention they actually have character and level counter picks.

On a side note: And you don't like getting chain grabbed by Ice Climbers? Pick up Ice Climbers. lol.

 

[Overswarm]

Espy, your sig is adorable.

 

[CRASHiC]

That's a bit out of date Budget, ICs are now believed to have a bad matchup against MK. The IC boards now have it as a 60-40 matchup.

And I see IC players all the time. There's a good one in every region. But what I'm really getting at, banning metaknight isn't going to get DDD to place any higher. Its going to hurt him more than help really.

 

[OfTheEarth]

Espy, your sig is adorable.

i agree
i love that movie

 

[etecoon]

Not to mention they actually have character and level counter picks.

On a side note: And you don't like getting chain grabbed by Ice Climbers? Pick up Ice Climbers. lol.

ditto someone on your secondary vs their main, always a great idea unless you're 5x better than them lol

ice climbers will never be as bad as MK though simply because not enough people will play them and they take more work to get good at. I don't think they really lose to any character other than MK and I've seen them gay people in ways that I haven't seen MK do(like someone on our PR getting taken out by a complete random that placed way lower last tournament I went to), but there's no real risk of them overcentralizing anything

 

[Dark 3nergy]

but there's no real risk of them overcentralizing anything

Thats because they run off of a gimmick of 2 children. Whats strange about the IC is that they change the pace of the game into being 2 cats and 1 mouse. Once you separate them and kill the other one, it becomes pretty easy to get rid of popo.

 

[etecoon]

in terms of brokenness I think the IC's could be a risk for overcentralization without MK in the game, just no one wants to play them, they take too much work, and a lot of people just can't do their chain grabs anyway(OS claims to have gotten some of them down in like 10 minutes so I'm lead to believe that the timing skill for it is simply something you have or you don't have)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

ditto someone on your secondary vs their main, always a great idea unless you're 5x better than them lol

ice climbers will never be as bad as MK though simply because not enough people will play them and they take more work to get good at. I don't think they really lose to any character other than MK and I've seen them gay people in ways that I haven't seen MK do(like someone on our PR getting taken out by a complete random that placed way lower last tournament I went to), but there's no real risk of them overcentralizing anything

IIRC, Peach, G&W, and Snake give them problems. Lemme check...

They have:
Snake-30:70
Wario-40:60
Peach-40:60
ROB-40:60

as their really bad matchups.

Not sure how reliable any of this is (I'm definitely willing to believe them on Snake, Wario, and Peach, lol), but ICs seem to have a LOT of counters (they listed ZELDA as a 45:55, wtf?).

 

[CRASHiC]

Zelda's matchups are always so weird xD She really shouldn't be as low as she is, what with her matchups.