Official Metaknight Discussion

[MarKO X]

TYM? That's what you're basing it off of?

Judge was the only Metaknight in attendance

What are you trying to prove? XD

That MK isn't popular.

 

[solecalibur]

TYM? That's what you're basing it off of?

Judge was the only Metaknight in attendance

What are you trying to prove? XD

Argent (Anti-Lucario ditto) / Xtacyfalco / Bboy / Not sure about king yoshi / Byahh! / Alus (response to meta change)

Not including pools

 

[Mew2King]

OS I Was not looking at that stuff with Judge's tourneys, I mainly was checking out the results and seeing what Judge posted by using various characters. It was by far the weakest point in my post, but I think the other ones are very valid.

I still made tons of far more valid points by the winners of various tourneys this weekend. I think if MK was good enough to be banned he should be ****** everything, and every time or almost every single time by getting 1st at hard tourneys, but instead lots of different people can win.

edit - I will talk about this later

 

[Overswarm]

Argent (Anti-Lucario ditto) / Xtacyfalco / Bboy / Not sure about king yoshi / Byahh! / Alus (response to meta change)

Not including pools

To rephrase:

MKs that do well at the top of the skill bracket for that particular tournament

 

[OverLade]

I disagree the reason I let him go on battlefield is because it is MKs strongest neutral vs Falco and we had a mutual agreement for neither of us to pick stupid stages so we could have a fair intense battle. On youtube you can see where I 3 stocked SK on battlefield but barely lost a game on smashville. So, I decided to keep my advantage with battlefield instead of going FD, Smashville, or various other stages.

also redhalberd, Fow thinks ness is mid/high tier and thinks nothing is wrong with MK he even went and said that ness is a MK counter. I have not talked to Shaky or Green Ace before. Boss is extremely against the MK ban and thinks MK is just a really good character instead and has won MD/VA tourneys numerous times. MK does not dominate EC at all in any field. Candy is ranked first in MD/VA, and I never see MK win on EC it's always ADHD and Ally and Fatal winning on NE. For a character that supposedly is so good he should get banned, the best MK players lose with him a lot. I very very strongly disagree with him being nearly good enough to warrant a ban, or anything for that matter. I do think the rules should be changed slightly though. 9 minutes 30 ledge grabs and less gay stages on would make the game better for tournament play (especially since people say that it "rarely goes to time anyway" so it would hardly extend tourneys at all)

I don't think MK is "good enough" to warrant a ban.

The problem is the combination of
1)How good he is
2)How much easier he is to pick up and be successful with than the rest of the cast
3)Even if characters like Snake/Wario/ICs can compete with top MKs we only see this in isolated situations.
4)Gimmicks that people cant fight against like planking and time outs

We rarely see Fatal/NL/Infern Angelis/HRNUT/CO18/Lain/TKD/Hall/Mojoe beat Ksizzle/Shadow/Judge/Seibrik/Havok/DSF/etc...

When I saw Fatal had beaten Shadow I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction" but across the board we don't see any players going back and forth with top MKs outside of ADHD/Ally. I bet a lot of the players I listed "could do it" but we don't see it happening, and there's no other explanation other than that it's because they "are at too much of a disadvatage".

*Bring on the namesearches fool*

 

[Allied]

So overswarm how are things in this thread keeping those nasty anti-ban in check? x3

 

[Overswarm]

So overswarm how are things in this thread keeping those nasty anti-ban in check? x3

They all went into hiding and Omni is wanting us to turn our individual reports into some giant monstrosity so he can hopefully just hit it all in one pass by saying "so what".

Mew2King is now the anti-ban's strongest supporter, and he is basically our Stephen Colbert.

 

[hotgarbage]

Your posts are completely infuriating Omni.

So is pro-ban going to finalize their case into an organized and collected argument?

Pro-ban has absolutely no obligation to "finalize" their arguments for your lazy stupid ***. You honestly expect someone to spend time condensing this information into one post and hand it to you on a silver platter? What the ****? Who the hell do you think you are?

No. Here is the reality of the situation, and here are your options:
1. You respond to the points given like everyone else.
2. You don't respond and lose the debate in this thread.

Take your pick.

I've seen some posts with collected information and a lot of isolated arguments/graphs.

Good. You've seen them. Awesome. That means you're capable of responding to them just like every other person has been doing in this thread. Get to it.

 

[Mew2King]

I do not have time to sit here today (EXTREMELY behind in programming which sucks) and read everything but I will respond to this first.

Redhalberd - Tyrant told me that he had beaten Havok with Wario this weekend, who is the 2nd best MK on WC, while the next day at at Sunday tourney that TKD attended he beat Tyrant in 3 sets in a row to get 1st using. This isn't the first time we saw this happen, as TKD has beaten Tyrant and Havok in the past with Fox in tourney set before too. DEHF shouldn't be able to go like dead even with me if "mk ***** falco" and I'm the only MK that can even beat him. I was able to 3 stock SK and I can 3 stock Keitaro and have not previously ever lost a set to Falco in tourney although I've come close before (to SK around Evo time, don't remember exact tourney) so I think I am good against falco and know the matchup well, especially considering Tyrant who is the other best at the matchup in the world loses to him the majority of the time, and havok and dsf cannot beat him any time lately at all.

I am tired of hearing that MK wins every matchup. Who are you guys to say that like you know it is for a fact. The other characters aren't as developed because few people want to put time into them and master them because you all want to use MK instead because of what everyone has been telling you.

There should be a ledge grab rule. Inui was able to beat my DDD in a close tourney match right after the game came out by planking me with Pit, only for me to switch to Marth and win, but not by that much because planking is hard to fight against. Velocity planks in teams and has played me in many friendlies earlier when the game came out (first few months) with GW's Nair and it is extremely effective, and Zac also thinks planking is broken. Planking needs to be banned. 30 ledge grabs and a -- 9 -- minute timer would be a lot better but no one wants to listen to me even though it clearly makes sense especially when the main argument against a longer time is "tournaments will take longer" but people also contradict themselves by saying "it rarely goes to time anyway", so when it DOES go to time the matches should end more properly a vast majority of the time and since it RARELY happens then tourneys would BARELY be extended at all. If a MK or any character is able to plank you with 30 ledge grabs in a 9 minute match then you deserve to lose that match because that should not happen. I also disagree with the amount of stages that should be on currently. I think Brinstar, Japes, and Rainbow should be disallowed from tournaments, same for Brinstar in Melee (I voted against gay stages being on in the back room before Brawl even came out, I just think they are really stupid). As far as picking up MK and beating good people with him goes, unless your skill is close to that person's then that should not happen unless it's lower level play where people cannot get past things like Tornado Shuttle loop and down smash. I bet most of you guys don't know that if you block MKs SH fair, or almost any of MKs moves, you can react and punish it with almost every character (I don't know the lower half of the cast as well, but I know any decent character can. ICs for example get a free dash grab). ADHD uses this strategy a lot and other top players use it too because they lag when they hit your shield and it's not very hard to react to. MK should be dominating tourneys a lot more than he is if he's truely broken enough that he should be banned, ESP if he's "3-27 times" better than the rest. I don't know why I'm even posting this because I know nobody will listen to me anyway, but these are my true honest thoughts on this situation but I still think people are just going to vote on what benefits them even if it isn't right which is why the Brawl community recently is making me sad

edit - this is seriously my last post for today on this here I will discuss it some other time. Redhalberd you can talk to me on aim or something if you want to sometime

 

[Omni]

Your posts are completely infuriating Omni.


Pro-ban has absolutely no obligation to "finalize" their arguments for your lazy stupid ***. You honestly expect someone to spend time condensing this information into one post and hand it to you on a silver platter? What the ****? Who the hell do you think you are?

So if pro-ban has no obligation to organize their entire argument into something approachable, readable, and complete what makes you think I have an obligation to respond to broken, segmented, and separated arguments?

No. Here is the reality of the situation, and here are your options:
1. You respond to the points given like everyone else.
2. You don't respond and lose the debate in this thread.

Take your pick.

Lol @ you deciding how the debate should be ran. If pro-ban doesn't want to bring together all of their arguments, then that's fine. They're not forced to.

You giving me "options". Lol. Funny guy.

Good. You've seen them. Awesome. That means you're capable of responding to them just like every other person has been doing in this thread. Get to it.

I don't plan on going back and forth infinitely.

If you don't agree with me, then get over it. U mad?

 

[rvkevin]

If a character 60-40's the entire cast, does that warrant a ban? It seems according to anti-bans standards that it wouldn't...at what point would MK deserve a ban?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I do not have time to sit here today (EXTREMELY behind in programming which sucks) and read everything but I will respond to this first.

Redhalberd - Tyrant told me that he had beaten Havok with Wario this weekend, who is the 2nd best MK on WC, while the next day at at Sunday tourney that TKD attended he beat Tyrant in 3 sets in a row to get 1st using. This isn't the first time we saw this happen, as TKD has beaten Tyrant and Havok in the past with Fox in tourney set before too. DEHF shouldn't be able to go like dead even with me if "mk ***** falco" and I'm the only MK that can even beat him. I was able to 3 stock SK and I can 3 stock Keitaro and have not previously ever lost a set to Falco in tourney although I've come close before (to SK around Evo time, don't remember exact tourney) so I think I am good against falco and know the matchup well, especially considering Tyrant who is the other best at the matchup in the world loses to him the majority of the time, and havok and dsf cannot beat him any time lately at all.

I am tired of hearing that MK wins every matchup. Who are you guys to say that like you know it is for a fact. The other characters aren't as developed because few people want to put time into them and master them because you all want to use MK instead because of what everyone has been telling you.

There should be a ledge grab rule. Inui was able to beat my DDD in a close tourney match right after the game came out by planking me with Pit, only for me to switch to Marth and win, but not by that much because planking is hard to fight against. Velocity planks in teams and has played me in many friendlies earlier when the game came out (first few months) with GW's Nair and it is extremely effective, and Zac also thinks planking is broken. Planking needs to be banned. 30 ledge grabs and a -- 9 -- minute timer would be a lot better but no one wants to listen to me even though it clearly makes sense especially when the main argument against a longer time is "tournaments will take longer" but people also contradict themselves by saying "it rarely goes to time anyway", so when it DOES go to time the matches should end more properly a vast majority of the time and since it RARELY happens then tourneys would BARELY be extended at all. If a MK or any character is able to plank you with 30 ledge grabs in a 9 minute match then you deserve to lose that match because that should not happen. I also disagree with the amount of stages that should be on currently. I think Brinstar, Japes, and Rainbow should be disallowed from tournaments, same for Brinstar in Melee (I voted against gay stages being on in the back room before Brawl even came out, I just think they are really stupid). As far as picking up MK and beating good people with him goes, unless your skill is close to that person's then that should not happen unless it's lower level play where people cannot get past things like Tornado Shuttle loop and down smash. I bet most of you guys don't know that if you block MKs SH fair, or almost any of MKs moves, you can react and punish it with almost every character (I don't know the lower half of the cast as well, but I know any decent character can. ICs for example get a free dash grab). ADHD uses this strategy a lot and other top players use it too because they lag when they hit your shield and it's not very hard to react to. MK should be dominating tourneys a lot more than he is if he's truely broken enough that he should be banned, ESP if he's "3-27 times" better than the rest. I don't know why I'm even posting this because I know nobody will listen to me anyway, but these are my true honest thoughts on this situation but I still think people are just going to vote on what benefits them even if it isn't right which is why the Brawl community recently is making me sad

edit - this is seriously my last post for today on this here I will discuss it some other time. Redhalberd you can talk to me on aim or something if you want to sometime

Prove the following and you can have your LGL.
1. You would still need ledge rules with Metaknight out of the picture
2. It's actually necessary
3. It's worth nerfing Pit, G&W, and basically most of the rest of the cast for a surgical change.

The Ledge grab limit rules are not competitive; you can't be anti-ban on one and pro-ban on the other.

 

[-dMT-]

If a character 60-40's the entire cast, does that warrant a ban? It seems according to anti-bans standards that it wouldn't...at what point would MK deserve a ban?

Overcentralization. This hasn't occurred. The game is also still young. Many people have proven the ability to surpass the wall set by MK. Arguing MK is the best character in the game is superfluous. That is an accepted fact. It is not a criteria for ban however, especially so early in the game's progression.

 

[rvkevin]

Overcentralization. This hasn't occurred. The game is also still young. Many people have proven the ability to surpass the wall set by MK. Arguing MK is the best character in the game is superfluous. That is an accepted fact. It is not a criteria for ban however, especially so early in the game's progression.

Whats the difference between centralization and over centralization?

 

[Tien2500]

Overcentralization. This hasn't occurred. The game is also still young. Many people have proven the ability to surpass the wall set by MK. Arguing MK is the best character in the game is superfluous. That is an accepted fact. It is not a criteria for ban however, especially so early in the game's progression.

By many who do you mean?

Ally
ADHD

Who else?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Overcentralization. This hasn't occurred. The game is also still young. Many people have proven the ability to surpass the wall set by MK. Arguing MK is the best character in the game is superfluous. That is an accepted fact. It is not a criteria for ban however, especially so early in the game's progression.

This has been addressed more than a few times in this thread.

 

[HeroMystic]

Whats the difference between centralization and over centralization?

Centralization: MK is the best in the game.
Over-Centralization: Play MK or lose.

 

[Nanaki]

The Ledge grab limit rules are not competitive; you can't be anti-ban on one and pro-ban on the other.

You can if you don't want the character banned because it's "unfair" for you to have to learn another.

 

[Albert.]

Your posts are completely infuriating Omni.


Pro-ban has absolutely no obligation to "finalize" their arguments for your lazy stupid ***. You honestly expect someone to spend time condensing this information into one post and hand it to you on a silver platter? What the ****? Who the hell do you think you are?

No. Here is the reality of the situation, and here are your options:
1. You respond to the points given like everyone else.
2. You don't respond and lose the debate in this thread.

Take your pick.

Good. You've seen them. Awesome. That means you're capable of responding to them just like every other person has been doing in this thread. Get to it.

LMAO at this post.

You're acing as if you're Omni's boss or something. Like as if Omni is your at-will employee and you're paying him and he's just not doing a good job or something lmao

WHOOOOO DOOO YOU THINK YOUUU AREEE?!?!?

LOL

Why is this n1gg@ getting all angry and **** over a game?

inb4bawrlisseriousbusiness

EDIT

Prove the following and you can have your LGL.
1. You would still need ledge rules with Metaknight out of the picture
2. It's actually necessary
3. It's worth nerfing Pit, G&W, and basically most of the rest of the cast for a surgical change.

The Ledge grab limit rules are not competitive; you can't be anti-ban on one and pro-ban on the other.

.... This post seems to be a covert pro-planking trojan horse! Budget Player Cadet wants to plank with un-nerfed pit and G&W !!!! Oh my goodness.


Someone is spouting the OS bile about "surgical change oh noes!"

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You can if you don't want the character banned because it's "unfair" for you to have to learn another.

Ah. I see. That makes sense. I'm sorry Mew2King, I thought you were uninformed. My bad, you're just incredibly biased.

 

[rvkevin]

Centralization: MK is the best in the game.
Over-Centralization: Play MK or lose.

Then the scenario I described before isn't over centralization...If a character could 60-40 the entire cast, you would still have a 40% chance of winning so it wouldn't be play that character or lose...

So if a character 60-40's the entire cast, would that warrant a ban? (Basically asking what the criteria for over centralization is)

 

[TLMSheikant]

LOL @ antiban posts. They make me lol so hard. The only serious and respected antiban here left is m2k.

 

[-dMT-]

Ally and ADHD to it at the top level and more consistently. This just shows it can very well be done. Most of the reason for MK's dominance is due to his learning curve. This is very similar to Sheik in Melee. A lot of people just give up on their characters once they realize how much faster they can see results from time put into MK.

Also, when the game becomes pretty much entirely based on countering MK, and I mean MK dictates EVERYTHING...this would hint at over-centralization. The pro ban's argument seems to center around MK being the best by a large margin. This is obvious, but is not an issue that warrants a ban.

Also, forgive me for not reading through most of what is 600+ pages... by the time I finish that I'll have another 200 to read at the rate this thread progresses.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I believe it's been shown that there's more to banning than overcentralization. Or should we allow Flat Zone 2 and items in tournaments??

 

[etecoon]

So if a character 60-40's the entire cast, would that warrant a ban?

irrelevant because matchup ratios are entirely subjective, what you call 60:40 might be 70:30 or 50:50 in my eyes. a character is incapable of going 6:4 vs the entire cast because that's just an arbitrary number that has no real meaning

 

[Flayl]

It is quite literally impossible to show anything that will change the remaining anti-ban's minds. We're done here.

 

[-dMT-]

I believe it's been shown that there's more to banning than overcentralization. Or should we allow Flat Zone 2 and items in tournaments??

lol...really? I hope you're not serious in bringing up those bans. Of course over-centralization isn't the only reason. It is however the main reason. Anything pro ban has provided also aren't reasons for a ban.

 

[•Col•]

Mew2King is now the anti-ban's strongest supporter, and he is basically our Stephen Colbert.

 

[TLMSheikant]

lol...really? I hope you're not serious in bringing up those bans. Of course over-centralization isn't the only reason. It is however the main reason. Anything pro ban has provided also aren't reasons for a ban.

Blind antibans are blind. :/

 

[HeroMystic]

Then the scenario I described before isn't over centralization...If a character could 60-40 the entire cast, you would still have a 40% chance of winning so it wouldn't be play that character or lose...

So if a character 60-40's the entire cast, would that warrant a ban? (Basically asking what the criteria for over centralization is)

Adding on to what etecoon said:

There's a bit of faulty logic in that. No matter what the case is, every character has some chance of winning at any level of play. a 90-10 gives the player a 10% of winning. Losing isn't absolute, but it'll most likely happen.

Thus, even if you have a 40% chance of winning, that isn't a 60% chance, which is the higher number. Given the fact that Metaknight is the most played character, that 60% makes a huge impact on tournament play.

Now for it being over-centralization: Well, there isn't criteria for that, so I honestly can't answer it with utmost certainty.

@Colaya: That... is... epic. XD

 

[rvkevin]

Adding on to what etecoon said:

There's a bit of faulty logic in that. No matter what the case is, every character has some chance of winning at any level of play. a 90-10 gives the player a 10% of winning. Losing isn't absolute, but it'll most likely happen.

Thus, even if you have a 40% chance of winning, that isn't a 60% chance, which is the higher number. Given the fact that Metaknight is the most played character, that 60% makes a huge impact on tournament play.

Now for it being over-centralization: Well, there isn't criteria for that, so I honestly can't answer it with utmost certainty.

The first part is the difference in being broken and being extremely effective...

As for not having criteria for over-centralization...that's one thing that probably should be addressed.

 

[Espy Rose]

It is quite literally impossible to show anything that will change the remaining anti-ban's minds. We're done here.

This.

Despite what proban has responded with to refute or debunk, it doesn't seem like any of the anti-bans that are still here and active are going to change their mind.

It's like the data will never be enough for them.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

all I know is that mk robbed me of my $$ in 7 tournies out of 11 i've been to. mk has put me in my spot for awhile now. and alot of these mk mains don't even deserve their placing cause they aren't **** without him, seriously now. I'd put 1grand on the spot saying that kel/Judge couldn't beat me without using mk. 1 grand straigth up hit me up on aim... Renegadetx2001 i'm ready for you to accept that bet... Anyone else? lol straight up, bring that **** on, I guarantee you... Btw I would mention Bowyer but he quit =/

 

[Raziek]

I feel it's also worth mentioning that there's no practical reason for Overswarm to type up ALL of pro-bans arguments into one post, seeing how Omni has repeatedly pulled the TL;DR card. Why would he change now?

I'm with Flayl. This is pretty much over.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

LOL @ antiban posts. They make me lol so hard. The only serious and respected antiban here left is m2k.

He's like stephen colbert. ****ing hilarious, totally senseless, almost self-ironic.

Ally and ADHD to it at the top level and more consistently. This just shows it can very well be done. Most of the reason for MK's dominance is due to his learning curve. This is very similar to Sheik in Melee. A lot of people just give up on their characters once they realize how much faster they can see results from time put into MK.

Also, when the game becomes pretty much entirely based on countering MK, and I mean MK dictates EVERYTHING...this would hint at over-centralization. The pro ban's argument seems to center around MK being the best by a large margin. This is obvious, but is not an issue that warrants a ban.

Also, forgive me for not reading through most of what is 600+ pages... by the time I finish that I'll have another 200 to read at the rate this thread progresses.

Hmm... Let's see...
-Ledge Grab Limit to prevent MK from utterly gaying out tournaments? Yeah, got that.
-Nobody is in top tier which has a matchup against MK that is arguably worse than 55/45? Might change in the next tier list... Let's look.

S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, King Dedede
MK:MK: 50/50
Snake:MK: Arguably 55:45, maybe worse
Wario:MK: Arguably 55:45, most warios who are good claim it's more like 60:40 or worse
Falco:MK: Arguably 55:45 without LGL; with LGL, almost unwinnable AFAIK
Diddy:MK: Arguably 55:45; Diddy boards claim that it's only like that because MK doesn't know the matchup at all.
DDD:MK: Around 60:40; DDD usually gets wrecked. I'm surprised that he's still S tier; maybe because he has so many other **** matchups? He's almost certainly going to drop; he gets hit really hard by MK, Falco, Pika, and Oli.​

So would you look at that. The entire Top Tier except DDD has a matchup with MK which is less than unwinnable. If MK follows the rules and doesn't plank or scrooge, at least. DDD is in S tier... umm... Maybe cuz he wrecks so much of the rest of the cast and counters snake? I don't know; I predict him falling.
​

-MK has almost 2x the tournament placings of second place, and more than the placings of Second, Third, and Fourth put together.

If this isn't over-centralization, what is? That said, again, overcentralization is not the only reason to ban a character.

lol...really? I hope you're not serious in bringing up those bans. Of course over-centralization isn't the only reason. It is however the main reason. Anything pro ban has provided also aren't reasons for a ban.

Well, the fact that the community is bleeding out, that MK is between 3 and 27x as good as players of the same rank within their character with the other top chars, etc... I'd argue we've provided more than enough evidence.


Also, Crow!'s post should've been the end. Omni can start by responding to that, and ONLY that. If he does that, maybe we make a big summary post?

 

[Renegade TX2000]

btw i'm not traveling out to play some guy just cause of some bet i'm talking about the potential mk users within my area of midwest that actually main mk

 

[Jack Kieser]

The first part is the difference in broken (being impossible to counter) and being extremely effective...

As for not having criteria for over-centralization...that's one thing that probably should be addressed.

See, this is the problem that anti-ban keeps shoving onto pro-ban, without really addressing it themselves, or even really understanding the issue.

The very terms "over-centralization" or "too broken" or "too good" are, in and of themselves, useless this deep into the debate because they are too subjective. No one, either pro or anti ban, can define these terms after the fact. What does it mean to be "too overcentralizing"? "Too good"? Anti-ban keeps saying that they won't listen to pro-ban until these points are resolved and defined, but they fail to see that OS's data and Crow!'s charts are the very definitions they are asking for: obviously, to the pro-ban, the numbers in those charts are past the cut-off point for "too good" or "overcentralizing". That is their definition for ban-worthy. Sure, it's not in words, and it doesn't have definite cut-off numbers, but how helpful would that be anyway?

This deep in the argument, that's the best pro-ban can give, because it's the best anti-ban can give, too. It's the best any biased individual can do. They keep forgetting that, after debating this for as long as we have, any "definition" (by their standards) will be heavily biased from BOTH sides, because (as pro-ban has said before) we'll be writing definitions and SIMULTANEOUSLY judging MK at the same time. The request for "defined ban standards" is officially a moot point; neither side can use it.

The best we can do is resolve this situation, and then define the criteria in a more concrete way when we're done and don't have so much bias to deal with. Either way, the important point to note is that the "we need criteria" argument is dead, because anti-ban HAS pro-ban's criteria: OS's data and Crow!'s charts. That's it. Those are the numbers. We can't do better than that because no one can, and anti-ban certainly can't. Anything more defined by that will be riddled with bias and arbitrary distinctions that, ultimately, help no one.

 

[Tien2500]

The first part is the difference in being broken and being extremely effective...

As for not having criteria for over-centralization...that's one thing that probably should be addressed.

Well he's shown to be at least twice as good as the next best character and I believe takes 38% or so of tournament placings...

 

[Spelt]

lol...really? I hope you're not serious in bringing up those bans. Of course over-centralization isn't the only reason. It is however the main reason. Anything pro ban has provided also aren't reasons for a ban.

Anything anti-ban has provided also aren't reason for him to not be banned.

 

[Laem]

Budget Player Cadet: Incongruent. Disjointed. Broken. Verbose.
yes, thats a good thing