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Official Metaknight Discussion

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theunabletable

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^I'm not blaming MK for sucking, I just suck period.
Swordgard, more people than just 2-3 need to beat M2k for your argument to be relevant.
Why? If two people can beat the best MK in the world, then at the highest level, which is what we should all strive for and attempt to emulate, MK is not broken.

Obviously he is not broken at the highest level of play and should not be banned.
 

Kewkky

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Pro-ban: "Hey guys, Polio's been back for 2 years, and it's been getting worse! Almost everyone's getting it and dying, and whoever's left unaffected is leaving the country! We should find a cure before everyone's gone! Look at this graph and this data we collected from the hospitals with the most cases of Polio! NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT!"

Anti-ban: "So what? There were 2 survivors, every human has the ability to survive it. If you can't, then too bad for you."
 

Overswarm

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Yes because the whole point of competition is to reach that level.
That's.... no. That isn't true. If you use that argument, you shouldn't ban anything. "Get better" would be the ultimate response, and I would be allowed to have infinite dimensional cape or play master hand or something ridiculous.

You can count the people that can beat M2K in Melee on one hand too...
Not anymore.

HEYOOOOOOOOO!

Just teasin', m2k.
 

theunabletable

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If something is proven to be unbeatable at the highest level of play, then it should be banned. MK does not meet that. He's beatable without being MK.

And Master Hand sucks in Melee. He's bottom tier.
 

Overswarm

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For pro-ban? We've met it.

For anti-ban? He has to have the same results we have in pound 4, except ADHD should be playing metaknight. Also this has to happen a few times in a row.
 

theunabletable

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@Kewkky:

Christianity: Nonsensical garbage
Atheism: Obvious truth

I'm not arguing anything! No really!

When you paint something with such clear biasness and in such a bad light, you're bound to get replys to it.

For pro-ban? We've met it.
Really? What is it then? The best MK in the world losing meaning that he's unbeatably broken, or something?
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Pro-ban: "Hey guys, Polio's been back for 2 years, and it's been getting worse! Almost everyone's getting it and dying, and whoever's left unaffected is leaving the country! We should find a cure before everyone's gone! Look at this graph and this data we collected from the hospitals with the most cases of Polio! NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT!"

Anti-ban: "So what? There were 2 survivors, every human has the ability to survive it. If you can't, then too bad for you."
How is that a false analogy? It fits well.

MK is beating everyone except ADHD and Ally. Polio beats everyone except two people. Anti banners are saying we should all get better, and if you can't, you suck.

ALSO: Sign, that's terrible ban criteria.

That's like me saying that anyone with an IDC should be banned. You're bending the criteria so it benefits your argument. You and I both know that if we had legitimate, clear-cut ban criteria, that would not be it.
 

_Keno_

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Not my fault you aren't as good as ADHD.
I've seen you post this so many times in all of the MK ban discussion threads, it's just annoying. It is stupid to expect anyone else to become as good with Diddy as ADHD is. We should base the ban on REALITY rather than POTENTIAL.

Many people have the potential to become really good, but most people just don't have the natural spacing/mindgames/tech ability or the time / opportunities for experience that he does. We know its not your fault that ADHD is better than us. We never said that it was.
 

Ripple

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I'd be willing to wait for 1 more national

but thats just me
 

Sorto

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but the success of one individual does mean a lot. It means that it CAN be done. Sure, not everyone can lift ridiculous weights or run as fast as olympian athletes. And sure it has to do with there genetics as well as with all the hard work they put into it. But it can be done. What os doesn't get, along with these other players who want mk banned, is that when it comes to competition ONLY the top 1 or 2 percent really matter. Everyone can throw a baseball, but what percent of those people make it to the minors, to the majors, to a championship, to the hall of fame. Os your problem is, is that your stuck in the minors and no matter how hard you try you cant seem to break that next barrier. Not everyone can, as i told you before, its not only hard work that takes you places, its genetics and inborn qualities as well. He shouldnt be banned because at the top 1 percent of play, in the major leagues, he can be beaten, consistently.
 

Overswarm

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Really? What is it then? The best MK in the world losing meaning that he's unbeatably broken, or something?
http://lueshi.info/upload/images/metaknight.pdf

Followed by an increase in every trend that MK has ever shown, with an increase in inconsistencies in snake and diddy as well as a decrease in overall dominance at the highest level of play.

but the success of one individual does mean a lot. It means that it CAN be done. Sure, not everyone can run lift ridiculous weights or run as fast as olympian athletes. Ans sure it has to do with there genetics as well as all the hard work they put into it. What os doesn't get along with these other players who want mk banned, is that when it comes to competition ONLY the top 1 or 2 percent really matter.
Go look at pound 4 results. You wanting to tell me that everyone that got mauled by those MKs is just really bad? That there are 200 players that have to go through death pools and a death bracket are just bad and need to get better because two guys have beaten MKs before?
 

.AC.

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One applies to a disease and the other to competition.

Right now it looks like a similar argument, but all the details of the situation don't line up.

You know what makes it easier to reach that level?

Playing MK.

HEYO!
yeah because so many people win regional tournaments the moment they pick up mk.
 

theunabletable

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How is that a false analogy? It fits well.
Depends on how you see it.

I'd see the thread as:
Pro-ban: OMG EVERYONE IS DYING TO SWINE FLU EVERYONE NEEDS VACCINATION REGARDLESS OF SIDE EFFECTS NAO
Anti-ban: Give me evidence of people dying to Swine Flu who aren't exceedingly young or old and have a higher chance of dying to sickness anyway

Although you are probably right that false analogy doesn't fit perfectly.
Many people have the potential to become really good, but most people just don't have the natural spacing/mindgames/tech ability or the time / opportunities for experience that he does. We know its not your fault that ADHD is better than us. We never said that it was.
Then stop whining about losing to MK. If you're as good as people at a top level, then you can't expect to compete at a top level.
Followed by an increase in every trend that MK has ever shown, with an increase in inconsistencies in snake and diddy as well as a decrease in overall dominance at the highest level of play.
I disagree that that is criteria for ban, then.
Go look at pound 4 results. You wanting to tell me that everyone that got mauled by those MKs is just really bad?
When did I ever say people who lose to MK are really bad? They aren't good enough to win.

If you're not skilled enough to win, don't complain about losing.
That there are 200 players that have to go through death pools and a death bracket are just bad and need to get better because two guys have beaten MKs before?
Not bad, but not good enough.
I main mk now. Fight me.
I lol'd irl
 

Kewkky

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When you paint something with such clear biasness and in such a bad light, you're bound to get replys to it.
Of course it's biased, I'm pro-ban. i'm not gonna view it in the anti-ban's way, and being neutral is too hard for me.

Pro-ban: "Hey guys, Polio's been back for 2 years, and it's been getting worse! Almost everyone's getting it and dying, and whoever's left unaffected is leaving the country! We should find a cure before everyone's gone! Look at this graph and this data we collected from the hospitals with the most cases of Polio! NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT!"

Anti-ban: "So what? There were 2 survivors, every human has the ability to survive it. If you can't, then too bad for you."
Pro-ban: "Hey guys, MK's been unbanned for 2 years, and he's been getting worse! Almost everyone's maining/2nding him and quitting, and whoever's left using their own way-harder-to-win character(s) is leaving the game! We should do something before everyone's gone to play Melee! Look at this graph and this data we collected from the tourneys with the most players attending! NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT!"

Anti-ban: "So what? There were 2 different non-MK winners, every human has the ability to do it. If you can't, then too bad for you."
Do you not know how to change words?
 

etecoon

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Swordgard, more people than just 2-3 need to beat M2k for your argument to be relevant.
discounting MK dittos

azen
fiction
ally
ADHD
lain
ninjalink

prolly more I don't remember, given the reputation M2K came into brawl with from melee this is actually pretty disappointing considering that he's using a broken character that needs to be banned or barwl will die.
 

Delvro

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Pro-ban: "Hey guys, Polio's been back for 2 years, and it's been getting worse! Almost everyone's getting it and dying, and whoever's left unaffected is leaving the country! We should find a cure before everyone's gone! Look at this graph and this data we collected from the hospitals with the most cases of Polio! NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT!"

Anti-ban: "So what? There were 2 survivors, every human has the ability to survive it. If you can't, then too bad for you."
QFT

ADHD does something others arent doing. Learn it to beat MKs, stop blaming MK for your shortcomings.
You're basically saying that MK has to be completely and utterly unbeatable (as in a 100-0 matchup against the entire cast) for MK to meet your banning criteria.
NOBODY has ever tried to push that MK is unbeatable at ANY level of play (high, middle, or low).
The match-up numbers should make that obvious.
MK has a 60-40 match up? he has a 60% (supposedly) chance of winning a match. This translates to ~65% chance of winning best of 3 set, or ~68% chance of winning best of 5.

And yes, these match up numbers apply even to the best players of the world and show that yes, the non-MK player DOES have a chance of winning, provided they are of approx equal skill, even against someone like M2K.

What you are arguing against is a point that pro-ban HAS NEVER TRIED TO MAKE. If you think MK should not be banned, then how about explaining why it's ok for NATIONAL TOURNAMENTS (which represent the highest level of play across the nation) have MK's top 8 weighted representation of 36%?
 

theunabletable

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You're basically saying that MK has to be completely and utterly unbeatable (as in a 100-0 matchup against the entire cast) for MK to meet your banning criteria.
Yeah, or if it gets to the point where you have to play MK or else you lose.
NOBODY has ever tried to push that MK is unbeatable at ANY level of play (high, middle, or low).
Then I'd say he isn't bannable.
If you think MK should not be banned, then how about explaining why it's ok for NATIONAL TOURNAMENTS (which represent the highest level of play across the nation) have MK's top 8 weighted representation of 36%?
I'm explaining it's okay because MKs are just really popular and at the highest level of play he is definitely not broken.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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One applies to a disease and the other to competition.

Right now it looks like a similar argument, but all the details of the situation don't line up.
Analogies don't necessarily have to refer to the same or even similar circumstances.

You know what makes it easier to reach that level?

Playing MK.

HEYO!
^

Depends on how you see it.

I'd see the thread as:
Pro-ban: OMG EVERYONE IS DYING TO SWINE FLU EVERYONE NEEDS VACCINATION REGARDLESS OF SIDE EFFECTS NAO
How so? Evidence shows that "swine flu" is killing people.

Anti-ban: Give me evidence of people dying to Swine Flu who aren't exceedingly young or old and have a higher chance of dying to sickness anyway
How about every Snake/Diddy other than ADHD and Ally? Just because two people have built up a resistance to "swine flu" doesn't mean that everyone in the world can. It means their "immune system" is better than everyone else's.
 

Delvro

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So you believe that MK shouldn't be banned, even if he (theoretically) had a 90-10 matchup against the entire cast.

I have nothing more to say to you.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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discounting MK dittos

azen
fiction
ally
ADHD
lain
ninjalink

prolly more I don't remember, given the reputation M2K came into brawl with from melee this is actually pretty disappointing considering that he's using a broken character that needs to be banned or barwl will die.
And how many of these people have beaten M2K on a consistent basis? Lain beat M2K at Apex (?) in winners finals and then M2K came back and destroyed him in grand finals (iirc). Fiction and Azen? When was this?
 

Ripple

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How about every Snake/Diddy other than ADHD and Ally? Just because two people have built up a resistance to "swine flu" doesn't mean that everyone in the world can. It means their "immune system" is better than everyone else's.

anti ban sees no problem with this
 

Sorto

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http://lueshi.info/upload/images/metaknight.pdf

Followed by an increase in every trend that MK has ever shown, with an increase in inconsistencies in snake and diddy as well as a decrease in overall dominance at the highest level of play.



Go look at pound 4 results. You wanting to tell me that everyone that got mauled by those MKs is just really bad? That there are 200 players that have to go through death pools and a death bracket are just bad and need to get better because two guys have beaten MKs before?
anyone is allowed to enter pound 4 rite? And there were 200 players rite? 1 percent of 200 is 2. Thats the top one percent diddy then mk. Ok lets do two percent then and thats 4. We have diddy mk snake and mk. Again not to ridiculous. We all know that mk is the best character. But to be banned he has to be unfair. Look at the top 1 percent and 2 percent he is not unfair. Sure mks dominate but at the tippy top that isnt true
 

Master Raven

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Fiction beat him at some WC tourney nearly half a year ago. ADHD and Ally are really the only players to have consistently beat M2K recently.
 
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Then what is the problem. I don't care about anything BUT top level. Nor does the SBR i think.

EDIT: Sorry for double post, you still didnt refute my last argument OS>
Our elite, ladies and gentlemen. This post makes me wonder why we even bother with this thread when the elitists that run the SBR think this way. Again, 2 people do it with any sort of consistency (Actually, I'd argue one)

Pro-ban: "Hey guys, Polio's been back for 2 years, and it's been getting worse! Almost everyone's getting it and dying, and whoever's left unaffected is leaving the country! We should find a cure before everyone's gone! Look at this graph and this data we collected from the hospitals with the most cases of Polio! NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT!"

Anti-ban: "So what? There were 2 survivors, every human has the ability to survive it. If you can't, then too bad for you."
Yeppers. Social Darwinism. :V

I've seen you post this so many times in all of the MK ban discussion threads, it's just annoying. It is stupid to expect anyone else to become as good with Diddy as ADHD is. We should base the ban on REALITY rather than POTENTIAL.

Many people have the potential to become really good, but most people just don't have the natural spacing/mindgames/tech ability or the time / opportunities for experience that he does. We know its not your fault that ADHD is better than us. We never said that it was.
QFT

So you believe that MK shouldn't be banned, even if he (theoretically) had a 90-10 matchup against the entire cast.

I have nothing more to say to you.
QFT
 

theunabletable

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How so? Evidence shows that "swine flu" is killing people.
I reaaally shouldn't make analogies when I'm tired as hell. Especially when I heavily disagree with the analogy that was being referred to.

So should we cater to people who aren't good enough to play at a top level?
How about every Snake/Diddy other than ADHD and Ally? Just because two people have built up a resistance to "swine flu" doesn't mean that everyone in the world can. It means their "immune system" is better than everyone else's.
Except in this case people who aren't good enough can decide to just avoid the game altogether.

I mean what's the point of competition? I mean isn't to find who the BEST is? And at a top level he isn't broken, so in competition should he be banned or not?
Fiction beat him at some WC tourney nearly half a year ago.
It was SCSA (I can't remember which one).

SCSA 5 is tomorrow, ironically :p

Anti ban thinks everyone else's immune system should magically get up to that level without a vaccine. That's the part that I don't get. Vaccine, yo.
What is the point of competition?
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Fiction beat him at some WC tourney nearly half a year ago. ADHD and Ally are really the only players to have consistently beat M2K recently.
Exactly.

anyone is allowed to enter pound 4 rite? And there were 200 players rite? 1 percent of 200 is 2. Thats the top one percent diddy then mk. Ok lets do two percent then and thats 4. We have diddy mk snake and mk. Again not to ridiculous. We all know that mk is the best character. But to be banned he has to be unfair. Look at the top 1 percent and 2 percent he is not unfair. Sure mks dominate but at the tippy top that isnt true
But the SBR is, or rather should be, concerned with people other than the top 4 players in the world.
 
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