Official Metaknight Discussion

[Dekar173]

then why is EDC banned?

What would be the cutoff point for EDC? 10 seconds? 15 seconds?

and LOL you both should be infracted. but mods dont get points usually for calling other people stuff like that. now make love and be friends

Anyway, refute this-

MK has the best:

recovery
uair
nair
dair
forward roll
dsmash
dtilt
ftilt
glide
glide attack
neutral B
down B (banned)
up B
Planking (limited)
Best "Priority"
dash dance**

 

[Orion*]

if he uses it for like more than 10 seconds, call the reff. its not hard. ch33s3 did it to me when i grabbed the ledge 3 times in tourny because he thought i was gonna plank

ive already expressed my opinion on his moveset, what about it? -.-

you forgot best air dodge, and sexiest colors

 

[Dark.Pch]

You keep using this excuse of "it has not happen yet". Let me ask you a question.

A person lives in a peaceful area where nothing hardly happens. Does this mean that I can just leave my door unlocked cause no one will dare come in and try to rob, kill me? Like one day I think to myself. "man this area is so nice and quiet. I could be careless and leave my door open to go to the start or food shooping cause no one will dare come in."

The option is still there for someone to come and take my stuff.

"but it has not happened yet". So I am gonna risk leaving my stuff to be stolen and go through alot of crap to get it back or not get it back at all. I left my door open and have not been robbed yet cause one cared to go that low and rob me.

people have not decided to all go meta and play as gay as hell in meta dittos tournys tournaments into a meta knight tournament cause do dont feel or care to do so. Yet nothing is stopping them from doing it. The next tournament or all over the world this weekend people could do that if they wanted too. The hell is stopping them from doing so? If they wanted too they could.

But it should not take people to have to go this low to have people see and realize that this thing is broken. it leaves many characters unplayable and screws up metagame advancement. The option is there dude. Stop with the "it hasnt happen yet" line. It is not proving anything. And even by saying this, you are actually proving that it is broken and that if it was to happen, you want it out. You cant slick your way out of this one.

 

[Orion*]

You keep using this excuse of "it has not happen yet". Let me ask you a question.

A person lives in a peaceful area where anything hardly happens. Does this mean that I can just leave my door unlocked cause no one will dare come in and try to rob, kill me? Like one day I think to myself. "man this area is so nice and quiet. I could be careless and leave my door open to go to the start or food shooping cause no one will dare come in."

The option is still there for someone to come and take my stuff.

ironically, outside of the us wich has a RIDICULOUS murder rate. that is extremely common

 

[theunabletable]

Unpunishable like IDC unpunishable. IDC is banned, because it can be theoretically used to indefinitely stall out a match the INSTANT you get a 1% lead.

Peach can theoretically peach bomber against a wall endlessly to time you out, but they don't ban Peach Bombering against a wall entirely.

ICs theoretically can shield grab everything then 0-death you with perfect shield SDI.

I don't care about what's theoretical, I care about what is practical.

MKs haven't practically won everything with just planking, so it hasn't gotten to the point of "play MK or lose" yet.

Again, you're grasping for straws. Go play against a friend and prove that planking is without a doubt, punishable (oh wait, you can't, because it's not!)

I am a bad player, almost any practical test I could make would be worthless because I suck.

Seriously though, you going out and finding a way to punish planking would INSTANTLY reverse the ban, WHEREAS you're asking every TO out there to allow MANY MANY MANY matches to be timed out (where money is on the line) over a LONG period of time in order to prove that planking is broken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster
Refute it, I dare you.

I need proof to believe in something. I have no problem with not believing in somethat that is without proof.

Do you know how stupid that proposition is?

Ban IC CGs, then, because theoretically (not practically because it hasn't happened) they have unbeatable matchups with perfect shield SDI.

There is no law governing over your life on whether you MUST follow the SBR ruleset, btw, so "burden of proof" is moot.

So you're fine with playing with a ruleset that goes against logic based purely on what is theoretical?

What would be the cutoff point for EDC? 10 seconds? 15 seconds?

Idk. What's the cutoff point for Peach Bombering against a wall?

uair

ICs may have the best UAir. Hard to say.

forward roll

Hard to say. It's the fastest frame-wise, but has less invincibility, and doesn't go as far.

glide

Apparently Pit's is faster.

neutral B
down B (banned)

2 things. 1) What does it accomplish by pointing out that a banned technique with his Down-B make it the best down B in the game? 2) If you're willing to point out that down B when banned is the best in the game, then put in paranthesis that neutral B is the best in doubles, not singles.

up B

Probably true, but G&W's **** good planking is BASED on that one attack. So arguably it might be as good.

Best "Priority"

Subjective. Transcendent doesn't automatically mean better. If anything outranges him, he's ****ed. He can't try and cancel out a longer ranged attack because of his transcendent priority.

dash dance**

Haha really? Actually no, I'd disagree. ICs dash dance has more practical abilities by desyncing with it.

ICs have the best (frame-wise, maybe not. But most practical uses...):
Uair (maybe. Subjective, but whatever)
Fthrow
Dthrow
Bthrow
Neutral B (how many other characters can infinite every character but like 1 or 2 with their neutral B and have guarantee'd setups into it?)
Footstool (has more reliable setups for an infinite than any other footstool)
Dash dance (dash dance desync too good)
Pivot (pivot desync too good)
Dash (Hylian desync too good)

ICs look a lot better now, ehh? I mean you're including planking and dash dancing, so I'm allowed to include how good/practical attacks/attributes get when you add player made techniques, right?

"but it has not happened yet". So I am gonna risk leaving my stuff to be stolen and go through alot of crap to get it back or not get it back at all. I left my door open and have not been robbed yet cause one cared to go that low and rob me.

So what negative things happen from locking your door? Less negative things than what happens from banning MK for something that we don't have any evidence of (however we do have evidence that leaving your door open can cause your things to get stolen. My brother can attest to that), I assure you.

Oh and once again, ban IC CGs because theoretically they win all matchups with perfect shield SDI.

 

[deepseadiva]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster
Refute it, I dare you.

I need proof to believe in something. I have no problem with not believing in somethat that is without proof.

lol

Nice.

 

[Orion*]

whats sad is i feel like there are characters that can deal with planking, but nobody wants to even try or put in the time.

so lazzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

lmao ics uair is STUPID. combos into itself and does 17 percent each time @.@. ntm if you FF air dodge through it and they baited you your losing a stock bro. lmfao

 

[Masky]

glide attack
down B (banned)

Pit has a better glide attack
Diddy's down B is way better lol, unless if the MK ridiculously extends down-B for 8 minutes which is THE perfect example of stalling which is banned so he can't do that

 

[Orion*]

pit is so underdeveloped. its kinda sad

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why do people feel the need to post one-liners?

Nobody cares about your post count. This is not a chat room.

Put content in your posts.

From here on out I won't be responding to one-liners, and I suggest all other intelligent people do the same.

So according to you, one-liners cannot contain content? I've seen you ignore intelligent posts against you for stupidly arbitrary reasons such as not quoting correctly, not entirely correct grammar and spelling, and... not having more than one line? Also, do you play brawl? I thought you were a melee player...

Most infuriating debater 2010. Worse than Limbaugh, honestly.

if ADHD doesnt get infracted for that i will cry, i was infracted for saying "that was beautiful" in response to the same thing. in fact, ban crashic he's added nothing worthwhile to this thread hes just an angry little kid.

edit: ^ not everyone is good at this game wyatt you dont have to make him feel stupid for not being good at a mu

People I have not seen one good post by in this thread:
-Orion
-ADHD

I'm just compiling a list. Ironic that it only ever seems to get longer the more I read.


I think one thing we need to establish is, "Is excessive planking stalling?". If it is, then we don't need a ledgegrab rule because the general stalling rules cover it. If it isn't, there's no reason for a rule against it because it's merely good positioning and/or bad game design. I'm holding to my belief that if Planking is not banned, you would not see a huge rise in Pit and G&W dominance, but you would see even more MKs abusing this, and you would see some of his matchups, for example vs. ICs, vs. Falco, etc. becoming virtually unwinnable for the other party. I should prolly go read Flayl's thread, tbh.

The problem with this argument remains, that there is very little solid evidence that speaks strictly for either side, so you have to judge on subjective rulings. Not good for this argument. But if you look at how much MK is dominating the tournament scene, you really have to wonder if this is healthy for the game or not. I just point to Tekken 4 Jin. That, together with the overall level of *****iness about it... Plus, the fact that we already have rules in place to limit almost exclusively MK, and the very solid theory that the metagame would be far more diverse without him... I'm sticking with Pro-ban.

 

[Orion*]

People I have not seen one good post by in this thread:
-Orion
-ADHD

i almost want to sig that. ill be honest. i think i will tomorrow LOL

 

[swordgard]

Jack Kieser you comments are generally false and incredibly biased. You don't even go to Hobos, I would know considering I've been to almost every single one starting with Hobo1. At one of the recent hobos we held a vote at the venue with people standing on different sides of the room if we wanted mk banned that tournament at an originally mk banned tournament. Mk was legal that event because the vast majority of texas players are anti-ban. And that was with pretty much every mk main in texas ABSENT from that tournament. The non mk players voted for mk to be legal. Not that you would know that, considering you don't attend tournaments here save maybe whobo.

It's fine to want mk banned, everyone is entitled to their opinions but you are stating false things as true facts and it's just incredibly biased. Almost none of your posts so far have been reasonable. Please, read over what you say and realize that your emotions regarding mk might be getting in the way of your logic. You hardly know anything about the tournament scene, you don't attend tournaments here, and you never have. I have only seen you at one texas tournament and that was whobo.

You were fine in person and I enjoyed talking with you but your posts just seem to be filled with hatred almost for mk and they seem tunnel visioned, open to nothing but what you want. You are not discussing the issue you are almost to the point where you are just degrading others for wanting him legal among other things.

I'm sorry if you feel offended by this post and I hope nothing will change next time I see you in person.



He's not ignorant. He has a TON of experience vs my IC's and while I generally have been beating him it's always close and I've always been considered a better player than him. I honestly think a lot of people are really ignorant when it comes to sonic and also believe sonic vs IC's to be very even or very very very slightly in IC's favor. I highly doubt you have played a sonic near espys level honestly, I've played sonics all over the US, the only one I'm really missing is _X_.



Espy would destroy you with sonic, and I would be in the background laughing like this .

My bad, I was talking about the list above, not sonic >.>

 

[etecoon]

Without MK, Snake will be the best character.

I lol'd

snake is SO overrated it's hilarious

X is my GF.

Anyway-

MK has the best:

uair IC's
nair
dair
forward roll MK's forward roll is the fastest, not necessarily the best. the protection ratio on it isn't that good and it doesn't have especially good range, just good spacing can prevent him from getting behind you with it for a lot of characters.
dsmash
dtilt
ftilt snake
glide pit, not many characters can glide at all though, not as if there's much competition for this
glide attack
neutral B falco
down B (banned) diddy, the fact that IDC is banned makes it completely irrelevant to this discussion
up B
Planking (limited)
Best "Priority" MK doesn't have priority on most attacks, it's just as much a weakness as a strength, his attacks don't protect him, they never clank or overpower. he can trade hits or get hit by projectiles in a lot of situations where other characters would be safe.
dash dance**

responses in red

he might also have the best walk, idk off the top of my head and I don't care to go looking for a list to see if anyone's made one, but he walks faster than some characters run, it's one of the better ones anyway

if mk could SHDL instead of tornado im pretty sure i would be pro ban right now

this would make MK's planking more ******** than it already is too, he would probably have been banned over a year ago if he had falco's lasers instead of tornado.

Lasers + Phantasm make Falco absolutely amazing at keepaway. MK's tornado is a great move by itself.

MK has the best approach stuffing in the game, he doesn't NEED to run away to reset the situation when you come after him. or he could just start air camping until he has space to laser again. give MK lasers in place of tornado and he is instantly a legitimate candidate for banning(he isn't right now no matter how much some of you wish to believe and not getting into whether or not it *should* happen, simply that as things are now it definitely *won't* happen)

 

[Overswarm]

pit is so underdeveloped. its kinda sad

Suyon, a decent Pit player in our region, has lost to two MKs in tournament more often than he'd like. He can do really well in other matchups (especially snake) but MKs just walk over him.

Peach can theoretically peach bomber against a wall endlessly to time you out, but they don't ban Peach Bombering against a wall entirely.

ICs theoretically can shield grab everything then 0-death you with perfect shield SDI.

I don't care about what's theoretical, I care about what is practical.

This is true.

 

[theunabletable]

you really have to wonder if this is healthy for the game or not.

I actually do agree that the game would probably be better off without MK being able to do the gay stuff he can. Just because of how badly it seperates the community, and how the game might actually have better diversity without him.

But that really doesn't make him bannable. Just like it doesn't make the DDD infinite on DK bannable. Banning the infinite on DK is stupid, even though the game would be better off without it.

And if he were to get banned just because he's bad for the community, I'd think making surgical changes just so he's balanced would be far better for the community.

Honestly I think if we were to do what's best for the community, we'd play with something like a 40 ledge grab rule that only applies on timeout, and a rule that states that MK is not allowed to glide under the stage.

I mean there is no factual reason to ban him other than "it's bad for the community", and even then that's subjective. However if it ever gets to the point where it's "ban him for subjective reasons" or "place subjective and enforceable limitations to make him unbroken" the latter seems far better for the community.

If it's subjectivity vs subjectivity like that, then a surgical change instead of an outright one seems far better.

 

[Stray_]

yeah thats true, just count ledge grabs following the match before taking stock/percent into account in the case of a timeout, and impose a forfeit if it is above 30 or so. As long as players knew this rule before the tournament i don't see how there could be any problem, the only thing it would do would be to discourage lame tactics.

I was actually under the impression many tourneys did this already

Generally i think the definition of stalling should be made more broad

 

[Overswarm]

@Stray

SHAKE SHAKE! SHAKE SHAKE!

Generally i think the definition of stalling should be made more broad

I wrote the definition on stalling. I made it very specific on purpose: a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouths when they lose due to the timer. To some people, anything that makes it more likely for the time to run out is considered stalling. This a huge issue, since there is nothing inherently wrong with running the timer. While we'd all like it if we could just turn off the timer, the logistics of tournament play do not allow this.








Here's a question for you guys:


Do you think evidence for pro-ban has increased, or do you think evidence for anti-ban has increased? Don't say "both". I know both have gotten new info, but I feel that as time has gone on MK has gotten more ridiculous than when we first started talking about banning him.


Also, what info would you guys like next?

 

[Browny]

Ill just say... anti-ban arguments are becoming more of a joke than they were before

Something I'd like to know though, probably a bit too hard to find out, is who MK mains would switch to if he were banned. I dont think it would be a 100% maining decision since unlike MK they wont have the advantage vs the entire cast. I just dont believe people when they say MK mains would go to marth, the reasons often make no sense and this notion is almost always expressed by marth mains, wishful thinking no doubt. I dont expect they would all flock to snake/diddy as next guaranteed best characters but would like an idea of what it would be like

 

[Overswarm]

You could always make a thread in the MK forums to figure that out, Browny.

Preliminary results wouldn't be conclusive though. Even if MK mains all went to one character or spread out evenly, over a bit of time they'd probably find their groove somewhere.

 

[etecoon]

Do you think evidence for pro-ban has increased, or do you think evidence for anti-ban has increased?

I don't feel like either is really making a different case than they were a year ago, there's new statistics to be used but each side interprets them the same way and uses it to say the same thing.

I feel that as time has gone on MK has gotten more ridiculous than when we first started talking about banning him.

I don't think so. top level MK's lose all the time now, at the time M2K was nearly undefeated as meta knight to the point where you actually could say "at the highest level, MK doesn't lose", which if it were true would be a much more compelling ban argument than anything you're using.

edit:
@browny - a lot of us would simply quit. 2+ years of experience and knowledge down the drain, what's the point in starting over?

 

[Overswarm]

@browny - a lot of us would simply quit. 2+ years of experience and knowledge down the drain, what's the point in starting over?

The same reason non-MK mains started over when they started maining MK, I'd imagine.

 

[etecoon]

yes but it's not as if it was forced on you, your character may be inferior to meta knight but you could still choose to play them. it's a different situation, voluntarily switching your main because they aren't good enough and being told you can't use your character anymore period.

purely hypothetical from me anyway, new england/AN isn't going to ban MK so it's not something I have to think about at all.

if I did switch characters I might look at marth(current secondary) or snake(former main) first, doesn't mean I'd stay with them though. and as I said, it's not something I actually have to consider

 

[Overswarm]

You would if you wanted to go to nationals

 

[etecoon]

I don't travel that far, besides that the most recent nationals top placings practically looked like an atlantic north regional, competition here is good enough : )

 

[theunabletable]

Do you think evidence for pro-ban has increased, or do you think evidence for anti-ban has increased? Don't say "both". I know both have gotten new info, but I feel that as time has gone on MK has gotten more ridiculous than when we first started talking about banning him.

I wasn't really playing competetively when the other MK banned things started (I just started playing in tournies and paying attention this past September (I had made this account a while back and then basically forgot about it and didn't pay attention to tourneyplaying at all until September or so.), but honestly pro-ban has no true evidence and is full of double standards (ban MK because he's bad for the community and not because it's logical, surgical changes are illogical so a full ban is the way it should be).

Ban MK because he could theoretically become unbeatable (which has yet to happen and are ridiculous)/he's hurting the community (a full on ban would hurt more. And if we're ignoring logic, just surgically change the rules so he IS playable and doesn't hurt the community with his gay-*** stalling)

Something I'd like to know though, probably a bit too hard to find out, is who MK mains would switch to if he were banned.

I'd probably just full on main ICs, since they're the character I have fun with and already know how to play fairly well, or just quit and play Melee because it's ****ing stupid.

Probably the latter.

In the future when MK is winning everything is when there is reason to ban MK. But going on about theoretical nonsense is just plain pointless and stupid.

The ONLY thing pro-ban should focus on is how MK is ****ing up the community (which it is, and this ridiculous ban discussion is making it worse). And at that point subjectively limiting him would STILL be better for the community than outright banning him.

I am ALL FOR subjectively limiting his stalling options (ONLY his stalling options) just so the Brawl community doesn't seperate further and die.

**** I have to get to bed, the sun is coming up lol.

 

[Crow!]

First, I'd like to point out that for the past two years, MK mains have been saying to non-MK mains "just switch your character, noob." (This has been said directly in some cases, but tourney results in the MK dominated environment does the same thing.) MK players therefore have no right to complain about having to switch their own character.

I would go so far as to say that removing MK would result in far FEWER people needing to drop their mains than simply keeping him in has ALREADY caused (and is continuing to cause).


As for where MK mains would go, I'd imagine MK mains would actually spread out quite a bit. Reason is that MK is simply the best of too many different playstyles; after him the 2nd best in each category is much more spread out. Some unjustified guesses on my part:

People who center on the spacing game go Marth (or Lucario if they want to still depend on ridiculous rolls).
People who want the on paper best character go Snake or Diddy.
People who want to stall / be excessively defensive go Wario.
Griefers go D3 or ICs.
People who love spam go Falco.
People who want ridiculous speed might go Fox or Sonic.
People who want combos / to apply persistent pressure have a few options, Diddy, Peach and Ike come to mind.
People who just don't want to touch the ground go Kirby or elsewhere.

Right now the best character that also appeals to each of those categories is MK; drop the common thread and things diversify.

 

[theunabletable]

MK players therefore have no right to complain about having to switch their own character.

If there is no logical reason for us to switch characters and we are forced to do so, then, yes, we DO have a right to complain.

 

[Overswarm]

I wasn't really playing competetively when the other MK banned things started (I just started playing in tournies and paying attention this past September (I had made this account a while back and then basically forgot about it and didn't pay attention to tourneyplaying at all until September or so.), but honestly pro-ban has no true evidence and is full of double standards (ban MK because he's bad for the community and not because it's logical, surgical changes are illogical so a full ban is the way it should be).

Ban MK because he could theoretically become unbeatable (which has yet to happen and are ridiculous)/he's hurting the community (a full on ban would hurt more. And if we're ignoring logic, just surgically change the rules so he IS playable and doesn't hurt the community with his gay-*** stalling)

I didn't say anything of the above.

In the future when MK is winning everything is when there is reason to ban MK. But going on about theoretical nonsense is just plain pointless and stupid.

I'm confused. Earlier, MK was winning everything. He never didn't win. There just weren't other MKs on M2K's level, maybe one or two in the top 8 or so.

Now?

You can see MK's points actually getting more solid as time goes on at the largest events.

With only 100-149, it looks a bit softer but still clear MK dominance.

When you combine the two to get the true chart of big events (100+ entrants)

Now MK isn't necessarily winning every event (getting 1st), but in points and placements he has increased.


I'd suggest reading these 3 posts if you haven't already:

MK Data 1 - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263082
MK data 2 - http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9422054&postcount=58
Rebuttal to Omni - http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9421595&postcount=50

 

[theunabletable]

I have read all of those posts.

I said WINNING everything, not being popular as hell and still LOSING big tournaments.

Okay it's 7:00 AM and I haven't gone to bed yet. I am sorry, but I really need to get to bed.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

If there is no logical reason for us to switch characters and we are forced to do so, then, yes, we DO have a right to complain.

The Smash community isn't going to decide to ban MK unless there is a logical reason to do so. Therefore, if he's banned and you complain, no one's going to listen to you and no one will care. If you don't like it, switch characters or quit. That's what everyone else who's character gets ****ed over by MK had to do.

 

[Crow!]

Here's a thought:

Any chance we can get someone or some group from outside the Smash community (and possibly someone from outside of fighting games in general) to read over the arguments made by each side and make a decision?

The problem here is that no vote can truly be unbiased; nearly everyone is in a position to either gain or to lose from a removal of MK. The logic of the arguments themselves are rendered almost irrelevant to most people's votes, ESPECIALLY those in the back room, most of whom are good enough to actually take money at the expense of the rest of us in the community.


Also, Sign of Madness, way to quote my conclusion and deny it WITHOUT quoting (or even trying to refute) the logic I used to set it up.

 

[Overswarm]

I have read all of those posts.

I said WINNING everything, not being popular as hell and still LOSING big tournaments.

Okay it's 7:00 AM and I haven't gone to bed yet. I am sorry, but I really need to get to bed.

Popular as hell?

This is top 8 of tournaments with over 150 people. Death brackets. Death pools. The argument that "MK is just popular" only holds weight at low level regionals (where MK does win a lot). At higher skilled events, like with 100+ people, MK is a clear winner. You're ignoring all of MK's successes due to a few random wins by two different players: ADHD and Ally. How can you ignore a statistical trend based on two obvious outliers?

 

[Magus-Cie]

Here's a thought:

Any chance we can get someone or some group from outside the Smash community (and possibly someone from outside of fighting games in general) to read over the arguments made by each side and make a decision?

The problem here is that no vote can truly be unbiased; nearly everyone is in a position to either gain or to lose from a removal of MK. The logic of the arguments themselves are rendered almost irrelevant to most people's votes, ESPECIALLY those in the back room, most of whom are good enough to actually take money at the expense of the rest of us in the community.

I really like the idea, but the problem is the neutrality and qualifications of someone to make said decision would constantly be in question. Good idea, but I really do doubt it would work :/

If there is no logical reason for us to switch characters and we are forced to do so, then, yes, we DO have a right to complain.

See, this is where you are wrong sign. You can play brawl+, or you can just stop going to tournaments. I fail to see the detriment to the community from losing you.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Let's get Sirlin in here. Yeah, he'll sort our stuff out. :V

Eh. Why is it that Overswarm's charts aren't seen as hard data again?

 

[Overswarm]

I haven't quite figured out what Anti-ban wants me to do.

First they said "you're appealing to emotion" and "you're just saying what WILL happen, not what HAS happened. Yeah, MK is doing great now but Brawl just started!"

Now I'm posting graphs and numbers and it shows a clear trend but I'm being told the same thing. >_>

 

[Browny]

You could always make a thread in the MK forums to figure that out, Browny.

I believe such threads get locked over there :O Anything mentioning banning ends up badly. Like I said, its too hard to find out, but ill now call it impossible to predict what would happen. Currently it would just be pure theory. People saying they would go marth coz they like the aggression, go snake/diddy coz they want the best chance to win, or another now viable character who while MK was available, was not worth maining despine being a favourite character (I know Lucario for example suffers this to an extent). None of that is really guaranteed... Impossible to answer question from the start I know, but it would still be an interesting trend to observe at least and if banning MK gave us the chance to see how it really unfolds, Im for it lol

 

[Overswarm]

Just PM a mod and see if it's okay, or see if it's against the forum rules and post if it isn't.

 

[etecoon]

I believe such threads get locked over there :O

this would probably be true if we actually got moderated.

 

[Orion*]

Suyon, a decent Pit player in our region

you already have me laughing

has lost to two MKs in tournament more often than he'd like. He can do really well in other matchups (especially snake) but MKs just walk over him.

k. so that means either

A) he hasnt put in the time to be good at the matchup (most likely)

B) he honestly does suck in the matchup, even after putting in the Real time to learn it, wich is rare.

lets ban mk because one decent pit player loses the matchup?

cmon OS, your arguments used to at least make sense. oh wait....

 

[Overswarm]

you already have me laughing



k. so that means either

A) he hasnt put in the time to be good at the matchup (most likely)

B) he honestly does suck in the matchup, even after putting in the Real time to learn it, wich is rare.

lets ban mk because one decent pit player loses the matchup?

cmon OS, your arguments used to at least make sense. oh wait....

?

That wasn't an argument. It was a statement. Pit is hard countered by MK, and the only Pit player left (Dr. X quit) loses consistently to MKs and everything else is fair game for him. Kinda bothersome to him.

It seems you are attempting to put words into my mouth.