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Linguini
Smash Master
lol..................
jalued
Smash Lord
to all u americans who mocked the PAL version of melee... ITS MORE BALANCED muhahahah
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97627
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97627
handsockpuppet
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,438
I know it's more balanced, but that tier list is something. Roy and (even more so) Yoshi are much higher, and the ICs and Falco also took a step up.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
eh, i enjoy the "unbalanced" melee more
makes playing peach seem more BA (and it needs the help)
makes playing peach seem more BA (and it needs the help)
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
I'm not sure about Ness.
I've seen a very nice young link from a top player name Vanz.
Binx
Smash Master
The only reason people didn't know how good jiggs was until now is because no one played her, also a lot of other characters use to survive to some decent percents vs the rest of the cast, now that we are so practiced at gimping her weight isn't as big a factor, hell she commonly lives longer than most characters with the way the game is played now.
King, Mango and Hbox really repped her big time, and she is so easy to play that all you have to do is think and practice a little and you can get pretty decent with her.
If she wasn't so boring to play against she would be more popular.
King, Mango and Hbox really repped her big time, and she is so easy to play that all you have to do is think and practice a little and you can get pretty decent with her.
If she wasn't so boring to play against she would be more popular.
HT F8
Hostile Takeover
Jiggs is not top tier now, hasn't this been discussed like 5 times in this thread already?
And yeah DK combos in general can give you suicidal feelings. lmao. That headbutt, he won't stop! >_<;
And yeah DK combos in general can give you suicidal feelings. lmao. That headbutt, he won't stop! >_<;
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
Jiggs either belongs at the top of high tier or bottom of top tier.
she is better than peach and falcon.
she isn't better than falco though, but she could be considered a top.
i concur with scars commentary in m2k vs mango match 4 wf lol.
she is better than peach and falcon.
she isn't better than falco though, but she could be considered a top.
i concur with scars commentary in m2k vs mango match 4 wf lol.
Winston
Smash Master
Lol Jiggs suddenly has the matchups to make Top Tier?
Just because the best Fox, Sheik, and Marth player has some sort of mental block against the best Jiggs player?
Just because the best Fox, Sheik, and Marth player has some sort of mental block against the best Jiggs player?
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
Rather than saying jiggs doesn't belong top tier, support your arguement as to WHY she doesn't.
or gtfo (sarcasm).
or gtfo (sarcasm).
Binx
Smash Master
Yeah, it must be their mental blocks... cause I see mango's puff losing to all kinds of scrubs.
But to actually answer the question: Yes Puff has the match ups, and if it is "suddenly" its because the better part of the smash community ignores that character more than we should. Just cause you don't notice somethings potential does not mean it isn't there. Back in the day Marth couldn't kill any character in the game off one grab, the potential was there but it took M2K to show us it. Now that top tiers kill eachother in one hit, it made jiggs better because you can't kill her in one hit.
She can still rest you and still has a chance to outplay you, her survivability make up for her slight lacking in priority vs other top tiers, and she flat out has the advantage vs almost every character that isn't Fox Falcon and Marth (need citation from a good jiggs please)
I would have a tough time suggesting that she belongs above Falco but it's easy to see she is better than Peach/Falcon
Jiggs actually has quite a bit of random character trouble from what I understand *shrugs* Also, lol @ not putting Sheik on that list, Sheik is generally considered the 2nd best vs. Puff after Fox.
I've been under the impression that Ganon, Doc, Pika, Y. Link, Luigi and Zelda give puff problems if they play the matchup correctly.
I've been under the impression that Ganon, Doc, Pika, Y. Link, Luigi and Zelda give puff problems if they play the matchup correctly.
I know Ganon and Pika do, I can't say for the rest.
pockyD
Smash Legend
burden of proof is on those fighting for change
Binx
Smash Master
Oh good to know, I don't play jiggs much and the only match I ever see them complain about is Marth and Fox when I visit the boards, although I guess they aren't super active so... yeah, I'll admit I'm not super knowledgeable on jiggs. I dunno, I'd have to really watch good players in those matches, I can't see luigi giving puff problems, maybe Zelda but I don't see how she would be any harder than Marth, Ganon I could see being really **** hard his hits are huge. I dunno bout Doc or Y-Link neither of them seem to have the range, although maybe Y-Links projectile game is better vs jiggs than I think it would be.
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
I always win in Jiggz dittos.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Umm...no. Every one of those characters has some kind of major issue against Jiggs.
Ganon gets rest combo'd and Wop'd so easily. On average, he'll be dying even faster than Jiggs
Doc gets camped by bairs
Pika gets camped by bairs
Y.Link lacks kill power (and can't combo Jiggs into his kill moves, which are all rest bait)
Zelda is outsped by Jiggs
If by "giving her trouble" you mean "even matchup at best" then you'd be correct
Ganon may be even (I think it's Jiggs advantage), but Pika is most certainly in Jiggs favor. Low percent upsmashes is not enough to make up for having no approach options and a lack luster defense. And Pika also has no reliable up-smash setups at kill percentages either, and most of Jiggs aerials not only outrange that upsmash, but they also don't have enough lag to punish after landing.
Jigg's bad matchups are basically...the top tiers. And even then they're not that bad.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I honestly don't think Marth beats Puff any more. Not by a significant amount at any rate.
I'm starting to strongly feel Falco > Marth honestly.
I'm starting to strongly feel Falco > Marth honestly.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^Yeah, I'd say it's even, or maybe a slight advantage to Marth (at best). Jigg's aerial mobility just makes spacing against her so difficult, so the range advantage hardly even makes a difference.
oversimplification ftw.
I mean, I dunno, I used to think the same thing about Doc at least, and then Velocity packed my Jiggs' fudge in like she was Willy Wonka and the warehouse was full (inet cookie to whoever can tell me where I stole this from). I think the thing about Jiggs is that not enough people actually know how to play against her or they do theoretically but don't execute properly.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
when and where did that sig originate from
pc is gangstaaaaa
pc is gangstaaaaa
HT F8
Hostile Takeover
1. Someone posted this in the CT thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzcvMJ56mi4
2. CogSmooch requested that I make a gif out of it
3. I made a gif out of it
4. KevinM made his sig 3 copies of the gif.
5. Everyone in CT thread made it their sig, lol
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
kirbykaze are you talking about falco vs marth? or falco > marth period on tier list.
i would concur with you if you were talking about the matchup, falco simply can camp/space lasers so well that marth can't do jack **** on platform stages other than get one grab/hit then juggle with uair/utilt under platforms.
all marth can do is get a grab and take a stock, or he can just camp ledge and hope falco players are stupid enough to approach him.
i'd say its still close but i think the matchup goes to falco's favor (technical 48-52 falco).
i would concur with you if you were talking about the matchup, falco simply can camp/space lasers so well that marth can't do jack **** on platform stages other than get one grab/hit then juggle with uair/utilt under platforms.
all marth can do is get a grab and take a stock, or he can just camp ledge and hope falco players are stupid enough to approach him.
i'd say its still close but i think the matchup goes to falco's favor (technical 48-52 falco).
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Are you kidding me? With proper DI, you cannot get rest comboed as Ganon. I know it's hard to expect certain moves, but if you have the proper reaction time then this won't happen.
But Jiggs definitely has the edgeguard vs Ganon. But on stage Ganon clearly has the advantage because of the range. Vs jiggs, you kinda have to do downthrow combos and space Fairs. It's actually quite hard.
For this matchup if both players play equally then it's even for sure.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Um...... no. lol. Jiggs wishes she could camp Doc with b.airs.
He's still lurkin, waitin. You know who he is.
God I start such awesome trends
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik vs Ganon is horrible **** lolololol.
Sheik vs Falcon is horrible **** lolololol.
I meant I think Falco > Marth in terms of being a better overall character. Marth isn't as good as I thought methinks. Pistols, free damage, super broken pressure, unconditional combos, and edgeguard setups on Fox (and everyone, really) are too good. He also, as an added plus, doesn't get ***** by Sheik.
idk.
Falco struggles with random characters. But oh wait he doesn't because Falco players aren't mindlessly attacking into Samus Up+bs any longer. Or the miss an L-cancel --> Peach D-smash combo. As Falco becomes more technical and smarter, his matchups become better. I don't think he's even even with Peach anymore if he plays right, I think he wins.
Sheik vs Falcon is horrible **** lolololol.
I meant I think Falco > Marth in terms of being a better overall character. Marth isn't as good as I thought methinks. Pistols, free damage, super broken pressure, unconditional combos, and edgeguard setups on Fox (and everyone, really) are too good. He also, as an added plus, doesn't get ***** by Sheik.
idk.
Falco struggles with random characters. But oh wait he doesn't because Falco players aren't mindlessly attacking into Samus Up+bs any longer. Or the miss an L-cancel --> Peach D-smash combo. As Falco becomes more technical and smarter, his matchups become better. I don't think he's even even with Peach anymore if he plays right, I think he wins.
otg
Smash Master
Truth son. Pill spam, pill spam, cape, fair. Missed rest... cape cape cape cape cape cape fsmash.
mmmmm get *****.
i honestly think that Falco has no matchups that are worse than even if he's played correctly. I also think that he beats both Peach and Jiggs after your tech is down enough and you know how to play vs them (lol, platform camp).
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Basically, I think Marth is worse because Sheik exists.
Any questions, comments, complaints, etc?
I mean, it's not like Marth is devoid of strange matchups with worse characters where he loses or struggles (like Falco). The only one that I can think of is like Falcon, but I hear some weird people think Ganon goes even with Marth so that might warrant some thought too.
Any questions, comments, complaints, etc?
I mean, it's not like Marth is devoid of strange matchups with worse characters where he loses or struggles (like Falco). The only one that I can think of is like Falcon, but I hear some weird people think Ganon goes even with Marth so that might warrant some thought too.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
just bc ganon rivals marths silly range with a couple moves doesnt make em even but kage thinks so
and falcon marth is DEF even
and falcon marth is DEF even
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