Fortress | Sveet
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They aren't using more potential, they are just making better decisions.
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Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
it's the only thing I'm good for
Divinokage
Smash Legend
well once you've learned all your character's weaknesses you have to compensate, or hide your weakness by choosing to do the right things.. which is why some low tiers main do extremely well. It's by understanding what your character can and cannot do. Once that is understood then you can go pretty far. That goes with every matchup or obscure matchups as well. You have to also learn what the other char does.
Merkuri
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,860
And those better decisions involves maximizing the tools available to their character, they are using more potential. This isn't a logical argument for you anymore, you WANT to believe that lower tiers are useless.
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
no one is really trying to argue but you... you're kinda sounding like a troll...
Mew2King
King of the Mews
you're stupid. Puff is broken and the best character for winning a tournament in today's metagame. Most likely to win a big tournament = the best character, and with results this consistent, it becomes really obvious. Darc also dominates his region and Vanz gets high rankings too esp since maining puff.
I think Falco is more practical for doing better in singles than Fox because of tourney results. Not just Mango, but DrPP has been doing better than other Fox's as well. My current opinion is Puff Falco Fox Sheik Marth Peach Falcon in that order in today's metagame.
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
Yeah it seems the same way to me but it also seems as though Merkuri is putting an effort to argue... Like trolling shouldn't be something you post paragraphs and paragraphs about.
Anyways no one said lower tiers are useless. They can be usefull. Its just you won't see them winning yet. Maybe Doc.
Doc has options. Fox has options. But then, tell me what the difference between fox and doc is. Then, there is a player playing doc, the other fox. Whats the difference there? (Besides skill). If you have ever read the statement "When a doc player plays a fox on the same skill level as he, he would have to work twice as hard" explain that.
Anyways no one said lower tiers are useless. They can be usefull. Its just you won't see them winning yet. Maybe Doc.
Doc has options. Fox has options. But then, tell me what the difference between fox and doc is. Then, there is a player playing doc, the other fox. Whats the difference there? (Besides skill). If you have ever read the statement "When a doc player plays a fox on the same skill level as he, he would have to work twice as hard" explain that.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Hey m2k puff should be higher I totally agree so does everyone else. However, can you tell me why puff is broken as F*** without you saying anything about you making a mistake or anything like that? Meaning puff doesn't have a grab right now, you are not off the stage, and you are not in a **** combo. You are not always one of 2 people, because telling me why puff is broken vs one person is like saying sheik is broken vs someone of course they are broken in some match-ups.
Fletch
Smash Master
You should start playing Falco.
I like this list but I think Puff and Falco are both debatable for #1 and the Peach/Falcon I think are really too close to call, but this should more or less be the order.
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
no m2k puff isnt broken. i totally agree with the fact that falco is getting better. falco is either equal to or greater than fox imo. u cant really say someone is broken because of 2-4 ppl. mango has crazy reaction time, matchup knowledge, and experience. hes literaly just ahead in the metagame. imo its like falco, puff/fox, sheik, marth.
puff isnt broken untill random ppl can win tournies with her.
puff isnt broken untill random ppl can win tournies with her.
VA
Smash Hero
It's funny because I remember you saying something quite different when you used to think sheik was the best character in the game. She wasn't winning tournaments at all really and you still thought she was the best.
I don't think she is the best, I think Mango plays her very well and makes her really hard to beat. Does that mean she's the best? No. Does Mango have an iron clad mental game that no one can seem to break? Yes.
Anyway, people are entitled to their opinion. So call me dumb if you want but I do not think Jigglypuff is broken, she's just annoying because you can be ultra gay with her.
On a side note the fact that SBR was allowed to post a "final" tier list is testament to how clueless the smash community are about fighting games and how tier lists actually work. As long as we keep playing there will be no final tier list.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
this just shows how much you know
easy to pick up does NOT define how good a character is
the metagame does
nicaboy
Smash Champion
puff isnt broken. silly people
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I've seen vids of you beating mango/H-box. Are you just going to say your better than mango/H-box but they only win cause puff isn't fair? Saying that after you have in fact won matches against them. I'm sorry but your aguement for puff being broken really doesn't fit together. H*** if the bralws really do mindgames like how they have boosted then just freakin mindgame the puffs and get them on their mistakes.
Archangel
Smash Hero
<3 KageWe gotta play Gannon Dittos again
as for puff being broken no she isn't. She's what Snake would be in Brawl if Metaknight wasn't added in. Better than everyone else by a thin but very obvious margin.
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
Yep. I was wondering besides mango and hbox, who else places consistently with Jiggs at the tip of the top?
I mean, maybe it's that we are getting owned by two people(or four), and we haven't figured out how to deal with them.
And who cares if Puff is broken or not. I'd rather group the characters that do really well instead of trying to put one on the pedistal. (like have fox,falco, and maybe jiggs and marth in a group first... nah nevermind that won't work)
First, why is she broken... because she can gimp and... float and... rest? :3
Also... if Puff is broken, how come any one else isn't placing (doesn't have to be top but a bit better than foxes I guess).
Also... I'm not thinking of a person RANDOMLY picking up jiggs and then owning... God. I mean people who main jiggs who have experience with her. Are they doing well?
Who wants characters that are easy to pick up? >_>
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
$1 mm me at apex my marth vs your jiggs.
edit: you cant say someone is broken untill a large number of ppl can play her at top level. and at top level, puff would have to be virtually unbeatable. so far only one of these statements are true so all we need is more puffs confirming her brokeness
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Lol@large number of ppl needed to make a character good.
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
not neccesarily large but a good number like 6+ top level jiggs
Merkuri
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,860
I think Mew2king's argument is that Jigs is broken at the very top level of play. Most people would consider Darc to be a top pro, but the truth is that he isn't on that same level as Mew2king. If were to think of the truly elite: Mango, Hungrybox, Armada, Mew2king, Amsah; they'll all being beaten by puffs(often times pretty badly)
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
yea but 3-4 doin dirt isnt too bad either.
More jiggz win and place in top 5 than foxes despite there being more and despite us KNOWING fox is the best character in the game.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
no, the top level play is all that matters for a tier list. But in terms if using her, she is not very hard either if you just want to spam Bair and do decently.
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
i know. i actually think jiggs is broken too, but im playing devils advocate. that and i think mango is ahead of the metagame. imo m2k would be better than hbox if he focused on melee more than brawl.
Jimbo Slice
Smash Journeyman
Lqtm @ people still sleeping on Jiggs (no pun intended). she's easily top 3 in the game with spacies right now.
I personally don't care about the order since it mostly comes down to player preference and playstyle, but Fox/Falco/Puff is top 3 for sure.
I personally don't care about the order since it mostly comes down to player preference and playstyle, but Fox/Falco/Puff is top 3 for sure.
Mariofan12
Smash Cadet
How is Mario worse than DK?
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Because DK can actually 0-death fastfallers. lol.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Mario Can ChainGrab them also. it's just his finishing Blow is either escaped or Meteor Canceled
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I think I just figured out why puff is being called broken. puff is in a group of people who are very very vicious, they can take a stock from 0% in less than 10 secs. I think this group includes fox,marth,falco,falcon(not as vicious but still) otheres can take lives uber fast but these guys don't need grabs to always do that. However there is balance in the idea they all can't recovery, easy to combo to death also, and they are very punishabble. puff is in her own group of viciousness, because she can't be 0% deathed(but in uber rare cases), her recovery isn't just gimped, and she doesn't have that punishment balance.
After thinking about it I found it somewhat scary. sure unlike other people you can punish her after killing you but it's still very limited. The punishment balance is totally off with puff. Unless there's a way to bait puff's rest or something.
Buuutt I think the problem we be figured out
After thinking about it I found it somewhat scary. sure unlike other people you can punish her after killing you but it's still very limited. The punishment balance is totally off with puff. Unless there's a way to bait puff's rest or something.
Buuutt I think the problem we be figured out
I couldn't find the point amid all the horrendous grammatical mistakes.
Tamoo
Smash Master
He at least puts a MUCH better argument for the case than m2k does 
Fortress | Sveet
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i dont think there was any. That was the first post by him i could read all the through. i didn't even have to double read anything.
john!
Smash Hero
ICG does have a point but there are lots of other factors that should be considered besides "speed of killing".
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
He must have graduated from a skool or taken a class or something recently because he has been alot more coherent for about a month now lol.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I don't think puff is broken even when I look at it logically she is pretty ******** and I understand m2k's point much betterI still can't help but think that it's this now.
fox
falco
puff
puff
not pichu
I think people should learn this mindgames beats spacing.
fox
falco
puff
puff
not pichu
I think people should learn this mindgames beats spacing.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
ICG reminds me of a young Mike Tyson.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Who's that?
gm jack
Smash Lord
However, a kill from a read at anything over 10% is brutal, especially when things like crouching under or shielding a lot of moves can lead to this. For the entire game, your stock can go from missing a grab or having it ducked.
Add into that, jiggs is extremely safe with her excellent aerials and mobility, her floatiness and her insane recovery mean that there really isn't any way to punish her. All you can do is try to play even safer.
If jiggs was just a really safe character, she'd be able to be managed. If she just punished really hard, again, you'd be able to form solid strategies against it. However, combining the two is an obviously brilliant combination, but I'm not sure quite how good it is.
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