Official MBR Tier List

[X1-12]

I'd much rather talk about low tiers than jiggs n shizz

 

[The Good Doctor]

Low tiers are....bad?
I like the good characters!

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

If we take out the bad people and leave just the good, someone from the good will be called bad and get kicked out and if you take the new good, someone esle will suck compared and soon you will have only fox and falco left.

THe bad ones make the good ones good in a way. Like if most people were at mango level or whatever and the pros of then mastered powersheilding so the game was more about grabs/ground game/mutli hit moves than ever. puff wouldn't be broken she couldn't really go in the air much because at that high level it would be near useless just setting yourself up to have a fair out of their sheild. Good is made good by the bad.

sheik may be called just decent or not good at all if they game was only sheik, ice climbers, puff, fox and falco. ICs would be pretty high compared to now because they don't have the marth, peach or other really really bad match-ups anymore.


To pichu then What do you think of perfect up-B? Does it count more as a mindgame or a way to moves and approach?

 

[Fletch]

Falco is better than Marth and Sheik.

 

[x After Dawn x]

I think 90+ % of competitive smashers who actually know what they're talking about can agree at this point that Fox > Falco > Sheik > Marth.

edit: or at least that marth should be lower and falco should be higher.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I disagree

 

[XIF]

I agree

BTW, one thing I noticed that I would like to touch upon.

Popularity does not directly equate to a better character, but it's a fairly good barometer of how good a character is. Just as in any aspect of life, people are self interested, and want to garner the most reward for the least effort. Smashers as competitive players want to maximize their chances of winning and that includes picking the character that gives them the best chance. Gradual shifts in the metagame reflect what the community as a whole has figured out to be dominant strategies. Thus, better characters are eventually outed and we come to explicitly confirm what characters have already been implicitly stated to be the best.

Of course the problem with this is that we have to take into account gimmicks that simply abuse the metagames flaws. I think one great example is Peach's d-smash stage spike edge-guard. Before it was probably one of the best ways to kill spacies and falcon, but as it turned out, it worked because of a flaw in our metagame. Eventually people learned how to ledge tech, and it's really turned into a liability rather than a solid edgeguard. And somewhat related to gimmicks, sometimes the metagame goes through a really long drawn out RPS where tactic A beats tactic B, which beats tactic C, which beats tactic A. I remember back in 2004-2005 u-throw rest jiggs was like unstoppable. Then Jiggs in general just kind of fell off the face of the earth and no one bothered with u-throw rest as much, and now it's become one of the most dangerous strategies again.

But aside from some minor flaws, I think character popularity can reveal alot about how good a character is, and with that said, I think character popularity is proving that Jiggs is probably a bit better than we expected.

 

[Fletch]

Couldn't have put it better myself XIF, but all you had to say was that if people weren't self-interested, 100% of people would play Falcon.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

its
fox
falco
sheik
marth
jiggs
peach
falcon
ic's
ganon
samus
doc


thats the list.
anyone that disagrees is wrong.
this list is perfect.

 

[-ACE-]

That's a pretty good list imo.

Some parts are debatable, but overall good.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Couldn't have put it better myself XIF, but all you had to say was that if people weren't self-interested, 100% of people would play Falcon.

...


No, I'd still play marth.


Why would people play characters lower then Falcon then? Fox is a lot more fun anyway.

 

[TheManaLord]

its
fox
falco
sheik
marth
jiggs
peach
falcon
ic's
ganon
samus
doc


thats the list.
anyone that disagrees is wrong.
this list is perfect.

You're ****ing wrong

jiggs
falco
fox
sheik
marth
peach
falcon
ganon
ics
samus
doc

 

[Charlesz]

Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco


This.

 

[TheManaLord]

no jiggs? **** you!

 

[lordvaati]

mah list, boyz.

Fox

falco or Shiek

Marth

Puff or Peach

Cap

Ganon

ICs

Samus

Doc

Mr. Nintendo

weegee

Pika

DK

Link

Y.Link

G&W

Zelda or Roy

Ness

M2

Bowser

Yoshi

Pichu

Kirbs

 

[choknater]

i think jammin jobus is spot on

but who cares

all variations are the same anyway

top 7 are the top 7
next 4 are the next 4

11 viable characters

just get good at the game sons

 

[Tamoo]

Couldn't agree more with jammin's list, pretty spot on imo

lol at mr. mana fighting for an apparant lost cause :embarrass

 

[john!]

Well here's my humble opinion of the tier GROUPS in alphabetical order.

Top: Falco Fox Jigglypuff Marth Sheik
High: Doc Falcon Ganon ICs Peach
Mid: Link Luigi Mario Pika Samus
Low: DK G&W Mewtwo Roy YL Zelda
Bottom: Bowser Kirby Ness Pichu Yoshi

The order within each tier is controversial and we could debate about it forever, so I won't post that.

 

[TheManaLord]

marth and sheik dont even touch fox falco puff anymore.

doc comparable to falcon ganon ics and peach? idt so

 

[john!]

marth and sheik dont even touch fox falco puff anymore.

Sheik got 3rd at #4 and Marth... well some think he's overrated but he's definitely top tier.

doc comparable to falcon ganon ics and peach? idt so

Maybe you're right, I had him in mid but moved him up for balance...

 

[TheManaLord]

even captain falcon can get 3rd or 4th at a big tournament. marth and sheik simply don't win tournaments anymore. sheik never really has.

 

[otg]

marth and sheik dont even touch fox falco puff anymore.

doc comparable to falcon ganon ics and peach? idt so

I would say he's comparible to Falcon/Ganon and Icies but not peach. Falcon/ganon are both way overrated and suck balls. I want to clarify real quick, I'm not saying that Doc is better than any of those characters. He's def not, but to say that all 3 of them are DRASTICALLY better is just false.

 

[S.R. XXVII]

I just surprised Samus hasn't dropped on the tier list.

And Ganon is def not high tier material.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

of course im spot on

 

[SonuvaBeach]

even captain falcon can get 3rd or 4th at a big tournament. marth and sheik simply don't win tournaments anymore. sheik never really has.

Are you not counting pound 4? Puff ditto's...then amsah.

 

[TheManaLord]

yeah one tournament is sooooo important good observation

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

lol your wrong.

mew2king has only done poorly at two tournaments?

soo two tournaments are soooooooooooo important good observation.

Sheik is ****.

 

[gm jack]

yeah one tournament is sooooo important good observation

Foxes don't win that much either. In fact, it's pretty much all puff.

 

[X1-12]

you're ****ing Wrong

Yayayayayayayayayay

 

[SonuvaBeach]

yeah one tournament is sooooo important good observation

It was a very important tournament. Showed that sheik is much better in NTSC.

You can't selectively say one tournament isn't important. Besides, are you looking at like solely tournament winners or what? Because the winners have been Mango and that's about it in the time frame relevant for a tier list.

Foxes haven't won either because they can't beat the falco's and puffs. Fox still isn't bad.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Every tournament is useful, but it's a sum total effect, going off one tournament and only one tournament is generally a bad idea.

 

[john!]

But it's the biggest tourney ever, and the only American one Amsah's been to.

Here come the "Amsah's just too good" johns...

 

[The Good Doctor]

Well here's my humble opinion of the tier GROUPS in alphabetical order.

Top: Falco Fox Jigglypuff Marth Sheik
High: Doc Falcon Ganon ICs Peach
Mid: Link Luigi Mario Pika Samus
Low: DK G&W Mewtwo Roy YL Zelda
Bottom: Bowser Kirby Ness Pichu Yoshi

The order within each tier is controversial and we could debate about it forever, so I won't post that.

Yoshi is most definitely underrated.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Fox
Falco
Puff
Sheik
Marth

Screw the idiots who are swayed by the immediate metagame, (says the guy putting Puff in third), Marth and Sheik can still compete just fine.

 

[TheManaLord]

the difference is

fox and sheik have never consistently won tournaments ever. in 8 years. so shut up ****ers. maybe in scrubville 2003 sheik won tournaments with items or some **** but nothing sub mlg is even remotely relevant, even early mlg is way past its due

immediate metagame is all that matters. the game is played with such a massive wealth of general knowledge and skill of techniques today. so much more than it ever was. it's looked at differently and played differently. things change and evolve over time drastically.

 

[X1-12]

the difference is

fox and sheik have never consistently won tournaments ever. in 8 years. so shut up ****ers. maybe in scrubville 2003 sheik won tournaments with items or some **** but nothing sub mlg is even remotely relevant, even early mlg is way past its due

immediate metagame is all that matters. the game is played with such a massive wealth of general knowledge and skill of techniques today. so much more than it ever was. it's looked at differently and played differently. things change and evolve over time drastically.

when i see your posts i can't get past the first line without breaking into a fit of lols

 

[TheManaLord]

Good call, that definitely addressed my points and observations.

You're pretty ********.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Yeah, KDJ never did well with Sheik after '03. Amsah doesn't do well with Sheik ever...just because everyone likes to run round fast with spacies doesn't mean Sheik can't still be good.

Fox, Fox is strange. He requires such mental demand and precision, it's rarely if ever pulled off consistently throughout a tournament. It's possible i.e. OC3, this isn't some perfect control BS, but currently the only Fox driving the metagame in anyway is Jman and he just gets straight outclassed by Mango. So Fox is still the best IMO, there's just no one there to use him.

 

[TheManaLord]

good theory. that theory definitely reflects the metagame and should define our tier list.


LOL

 

[Blistering Speed]

Lol I can't wait to see you flip flop to the next character as soon as they start to do well.