Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Theftz22]

Why do we even care about a new BR tier list? It's just what the group of 20 or so broomers think. If you really want to know you could just ask them.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I don't really care about a new list.

I just want a new thread so this one can die and be purged from smash history. Some of the posts in here I swear...

 

[Gea]

Did you know Y Link beats Marth?

 

[Purpletuce]

I can't really speak for most people when I give my reasoning for wanting a new list, but I want one so I have a definitive ordering of the characters in terms of their viability, which is interesting. What I would want more than that is an accepted MU list of most common characters, but I doubt that would ever happen. A new list would probably be interesting to talk about. See new things.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Good guy KK posts his opinions in the public boards and ignores the BR

MBR requires me scroll to the bottom of the page

 

[Deleted member]

MBR requires me scroll to the bottom of the page

i feel like you should get on aim more than never.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I really care about a new list because it's been 2 damn years since the last one.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Hell, even if it's the same, a "new" one should be released so there aren't any misconceptions about it being outdated, the metagame being stagnant, or the community not caring.

 

[ZetTroxX]

Pikachu a bit higher...?

 

[Quil]

Hell, even if it's the same, a "new" one should be released so there aren't any misconceptions about it being outdated, the metagame being stagnant, or the community not caring.

Precisely. Not having a new list makes it seem as if the game has died, which isn't true at all.

(That said, at the VERY least, YL needs a bump in the tier list.)

 

[Purpletuce]

Damn, some people really think one player is enough to change a list.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I didnt see anyone say that.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I really care about a new list because it's been 2 damn years since the last one.

The next one that comes out will be the 2010 tier list only under a new title: "Official MBR 2013 NTSC Tier List"

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

(That said, at the VERY least, YL needs a bump in the tier list.)

I believe this statement prompted Purpletuce to say what he did.

Damn, some people really think one player is enough to change a list.

Most likely assuming he thought Quil (and many other from his experience, but prompted by Quil) was claming YL needs a change due to armada's performance with him.

I didnt see anyone say that.

Indirectly assumed.

Don't you just love the multiple interpretations and faucets conversations can have :}

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

My personal list:

SS: Fox, Falco
S: Sheik, Marth, Puff, Peach
A: Falcon, ICs
B: Doc, Pika, Samus, Ganon, Luigi
C: Mario, DK, Yoshi
D: Young Link, Link, Zelda

SS: I think fox is better than falco overall. Falco is very polar in his match-ups where fox is very consistent and never has a disadvantage. Both are clearly better than the rest of the cast in my eyes.

S: Sheik and Marth have the best MUs with the spacies. They also have the potential to maintain stage control against practically any character in the game, even the spacies. Oh yeah and they have great combos and edgeguards. Peach and Puff are noticeably worse in my opinion, but not enough to be in a lower tier. Both have very strong gimmicks and absurd recoveries, not to mention strong punishes and edgeguards. They are the best attrition characters in the game.

A: These two are both very viable, but have some tough match-ups with the characters above them. I rank Falcon higher because he has the best physics combination in the game (run speed, fall speed, weight, aerial movement, jumps) which means he can outplay and beat players of "counter" characters much easier than anyone else in the game. ICs have a powerful punish game, but it mostly stems from grabs and has some requirements on nana's sync. Their neutral game is somewhat limited, but still pretty darn good.

B: Doc has a good resilience to combos and an amazing grab game. His combos aren't as bread and butter as the SS and S tier's, but they can still be devastating. Pikachu, despite being light, has very good offensive traits that were overlooked for a long time. Some of the gimmicks axe has pioneered are very solid and versatile, which IMO puts him above samus and ganon. I couldn't really decide who is better between samus and ganon: ganon has better combos and kills, but he can be exploited a lot worse than samus, which is why I put samus higher. Luigi doesn't get much rep these days, but he is a legit character. I think he could move further up if more people played him.

C & D: These guys are underrated and have little exposure in tournament. I put yoshi pretty high due to my own speculations and not in-game experience. I only consider YL to be better than Link in version 1.0. In any other version, Link is better IMO. Zelda is really underrated, but she isn't a bad character at all. Best shield in the game, and despite not having a good shield grab, she has a pretty amazing OoS game. Shes another attrition character and has some pretty damn good range despite her speed. Also, D tier for Triforce Tier

Below: Not going to really go there. Its almost entirely speculation. I will say that G&W, Roy and Mewtwo are probably better than the other ones.

 

[Laijin]

Young Link for S tier in terms of most fun to play! :D

 

[Gea]

Only thing I have to ask Sveet is your thoughts on the gap between Doc and Mario. Not that I disagree, I just want to hear your reasoning. In general though I love your tier list splits and your reasoning and pretty much agree.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Doc just has a better neutral game with his pills, and his moves have better angles in general. Mario has more range (he is taller and his limbs are longer) which gives him more reach for controlling space. I think the biggest difference is that doc has reliable kill options (from throw or otherwise) where mario has a harder time killing due to his fair and the angle and power of his kill moves.

Honestly, there isn't a whole lot that separates the marios, which should be evidence to how tightly packed the B/C tiers are.


edit- plus doc can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImdnDt8ve90#t=3m2s

 

[Gea]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought you were gonna say. I agree. Thank you very much for your explanation.

 

[Fletch]

Throw Mario in the bottom of B tier and I basically agree with your list 100% Sveet. Maybe Yoshi down to D, but he's so hard to judge since he's so damn hard to play. Also, I'd switch Falco with Fox despite Falco having more iffier matchups; he's just easier to play at a consistent level, and we haven't seen a Fox play at the level of any of the Falcos in a while (I'd say Mango is the biggest advocate for Fox, and his Falco is still much better).

Spacies also aren't THAT far above the rest of the cast, it is really damn close.

 

[Purpletuce]

hmm. . . my 2cents, if I make any definitive statements like "ICs have a limitation because . . ."Please read it as "I think ICs have a limitation because. . ." I understand that I can be wrong

S: Falco, Fox
A: Sheik, Puff, Marth, Peach
B: Falcon
C: ICs
D: Doc, Pika, Samus, Ganon, Luigi
E: Mario, Yoshi, DK

S tier is so good that the redefine the rest of this list by how well they can handle them. I put Falco > Fox because I think that both of them are very fragile, and Fox relies on outmaneuvering his opponent so he doesn't get hit (and die), which is easier to mess up considering his speed and hitboxes(they aren't bad, but you need to have good control). Falco's aggressive and defensive control abilities give him a more reliable way of keeping him from getting hit (killed) as much. Fox can overwhelm you, but he can't ever keep it up, and it can be really easy to catch up. Fox's better recovery mitigates that, but I don't think it is enough. . .

A tier are really good characters that can probably do anything their player needs, I put Puff above Marth because I think she is a little more versatile, and keeps any character in the game scared from her gimps/rests. Getting those make it easy for her to make comebacks or take an early lead and play super defensive giving her a good advantage. Puff>Marth IMO

B tier is the overhyped tier. He has a ton of power, but is about as fragile as S tier, but can't really protect himself the way they can. I don't like him all alone, but I don't think he is as good as the characters above him, but ICs need their own distinction.

C tier is ICs, who have tons of potential, but are always subject to Nana's BS. Little things like Nana not being able to fall through platforms when you respawn without landing first adds up. There are lots of limitations to the character, especially when somebody easily 0-deaths nana. Sometimes people don't know the limitations and ICs destroy people they dont know the MU. (subject to change since I'm no ICs expert on these wierdos)

D&E tier . . . I think Sveet said this nicely, these guys have potential, but rarely is it shown. I probably have some Yoshi bias, but I think he has lots of things to make up for his limitations, which become less apparent as you get accustomed to him.

 

[john!]

Damn, some people really think one player is enough to change a list.

one player is the reason why you put peach in a tier above falcon

 

[Purpletuce]

I was thinking about bringing her down 1 spot to join Falcon, but I didn't think she was far enough from Marth to have the gap there. I think Peach is one tier above Falcon because she seems to handle spacies and shiek better, while hacing trouble with characters that aren't as common. An imaginary Peach and an imaginiary Falcon both in a major tourney, which do you think will run into harder MUs more often? I also think Peach's defensive abilities and powerful moves are better at keeping opponents in check. She also doesn't get comboed as hard, but doesn't combo others as hard either. I think that is more advantageous.

 

[john!]

I was thinking about bringing her down 1 spot to join Falcon, but I didn't think she was far enough from Marth to have the gap there. I think Peach is one tier above Falcon because she seems to handle spacies and shiek better, while hacing trouble with characters that aren't as common. An imaginary Peach and an imaginiary Falcon both in a major tourney, which do you think will run into harder MUs more often? I also think Peach's defensive abilities and powerful moves are better at keeping opponents in check. She also doesn't get comboed as hard, but doesn't combo others as hard either. I think that is more advantageous.

i agree. but the only reason you think this is because armada and other top peach players have shown it to us. most people think that their theorycrafting is some kind of super logical analysis when all they're really doing is regurgitating what they see when they watch pro players. the fact of the matter is that all tier lists are results-based... some people just prefer to cut out the middleman.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You realize the 2010 tier list is historically peach's lowest appearance on a tier list, right?

 

[ShroudedOne]

The smashers of old knew what they were talking about.

 

[Browny]

Oh would you look at that, yet another major where solo fox cant stand a chance vs solo shiek/marth/jiggs/falco/peach

Business as usual I guess, and has been for quite a while.

I'll never understand why Fox is top tier. I get the whole 'theoretically' and 'statistically' best in the game etc, but for as long as Ive cared about melee results, I've never once seen fox do anything to place him above those 5. Beating the majority of the cast 100:0 is irrelevant when you never fight most of them, and get rolled by those you do. the whole 'player skill' limitation on fox is also pointless since theres no reason it cant apply to every character. Everyone likes to ignore Mewtwo because only one player can play him as his max potential, yet apparently fox is praised because... no one? can play to his top potential. Dat 2002 logic.

/uneducated rant

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How long have you cared about melee results exactly? I mean, other than just talking empirically from what I can see from playing as and against fox, there are quite a bit of statistics and results to back up fox's placing. Metaknight is the best in brawl, but he doesn't win everything (or even very much on the national level from what i've seen). Playing the best character in the game is sometimes as much of a challenge as playing someone lower: everyone (at the top level) knows the match-up much better than you know the match-up in reverse.

 

[john!]

You realize the 2010 tier list is historically peach's lowest appearance on a tier list, right?

only thanks to the rise of jigglypuff. peach has been in falcon's tier for as long as i can remember.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Afaik this year's apex was the first time MK lost an international tourney since 2010, Sveet

 

[leffen]

How long have you cared about melee results exactly? I mean, other than just talking empirically from what I can see from playing as and against fox, there are quite a bit of statistics and results to back up fox's placing. Metaknight is the best in brawl, but he doesn't win everything (or even very much on the national level from what i've seen). Playing the best character in the game is sometimes as much of a challenge as playing someone lower: everyone (at the top level) knows the match-up much better than you know the match-up in reverse.

Metaknights results destroys EVERYONE elses, especially in amount of money won (there was some statistics done, and its only getting worse)

where as Fox has terrible results but huge playerbase, which along with some of his character traits makes him a bad character to solo main in the current metagame.

 

[Ripple]

at it's lowest point in 2011. MK won 38% of all money distributed.

at his highest, he won 55% of all money distributed.

fox's highest doesn't even seem to come close to what MK's lowest.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You could also attribute that to saturation though. Fox is definitely one of the most popular characters in melee but his numbers are still far beneath Meta Knights numbers in Brawl. There's also the fact that it seems top brawl players are far less "Character Loyal" and have mostly switched to MK, further skewing his results. Hell, if we hadnt banned him in Melee he'd probably be stealing all of our money and beating all our kids and smoking in the non-smoking area here too(Im not 100% sure what it is MK does in Brawl)

That said Fox is clearly not the best character in melee anymore. Peach is.

 

[leffen]

Peach is easily one of the very best characters to main, mostly because she requires so little work tech wise (time that is better spent working on other aspects of your game), almost impossible to choke (and benefits greatly from tournament circumstances) and her only real counter, puff, is almost never played anyway

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The character ranking list is a point based system of ranking the characters, by giving points based on tournament result. When I compiled the list last, Fox had 3 times as many points as the next closest characters (falco and puff). I followed the same ranking rules as the brawl counterpart, which had similar results for MK.

Whether you realize it or not, there are always at least one fox in the top 8 of any tournament. Even this past apex, mango got 4th or something using fox partially. FC had Kels, Mango and SFAT in the top 8. Look at your local/regionals, almost every region's best player plays fox and if not there is still a top fox placing high.

People need to get their heads out of their ***** in this thread.

 

[leffen]

There is a **** LOAD of fox players, and yes, there is always one in top 10ish, but thats because Fox players play other fox players VERY often, and once this doesn't happen anymore fox players tend to fall fast.

Fox solo mainers kinda need the right bracket to do well, this is not uncommon at all in other fg's and its very obvious that its the case in this game

 

[Xyzz]

Another great thing about Peach is that for most characters playing against her means that they need to play pretty differently from what they usually do; which very few players can handle well.

Also: Sometimes the game just wants her to win :D (so many bull**** shenanigans <3 )

 

[leffen]

Wanna list the regions bests players? Even though that really doesn't mean ****, since we are talking winning internationals here, but still, the list is probably shorter than you think compared to how many that play fox

 

[S l o X]

Peach is easily one of the very best characters to main, mostly because she requires so little work tech wise (time that is better spent working on other aspects of your game), almost impossible to choke (and benefits greatly from tournament circumstances) and her only real counter, puff, is almost never played anyway

the truth.

how do people feel about falcon v fox / falco?

 

[leffen]

I've always said that Falcon vs Fox/Falco isn't that bad

the results kinda point to it too.