Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Divinokage]

I guess I don't need to say who would that be on the EC..

 

[Deleted member]

I'm really not sure it's fair to base his MUs off PP's theories and methods since PP is also a top level player and if I do that then his results will invariably bias me towards his stuff favourably and I may overrate the fencer.

That's because Kevin actually understands how to play the character. Marth is a bull**** character that's very hard to overrate when played correctly and you shouldn't feel bad for rating him much higher than the community at large does.

 

[Archangel]

That's because Kevin actually understands how to play the character. Marth is a bull**** character that's very hard to overrate when played correctly and you shouldn't feel bad for rating him much higher than the community at large does.

what's wrong with top 7?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Not Peachy enough

 

[KirbyKaze]

That's because Kevin actually understands how to play the character. Marth is a bull**** character that's very hard to overrate when played correctly and you shouldn't feel bad for rating him much higher than the community at large does.

Your scathing cynicism and subtle verbal abuse both routinely has the effect of making me feel better, making me feel dumb for wanting to feel a certain way, alleviating that embarrassment, and turning me on.

You really do take charge o_O

 

[Deleted member]

Your scathing cynicism and subtle verbal abuse both routinely has the effect of making me feel better, making me feel dumb for wanting to feel a certain way, alleviating that embarrassment, and turning me on.

You really do take charge o_O

I also perform better on top. Strategically speaking, of course.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

In the midwest it is (was) Quaz. First time I played him tournament (pools) he threw his controller after losing game 1 and broke it. Another time he kicked a window after losing a set (it was a giant store front window, I can't imagine what would have happened if it broke).

 

[KirbyKaze]

I also perform better on top. Strategically speaking, of course.

Oh baby~

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i brought up discussion about raging over smash

yesssssssssssss

 

[ShroudedOne]

That's odd. Yoshi's has become my vs Marth counterpick as Peach. :\

I think FD > Yoshi's

 

[Divinokage]

In the midwest it is (was) Quaz. First time I played him tournament (pools) he threw his controller after losing game 1 and broke it. Another time he kicked a window after losing a set (it was a giant store front window, I can't imagine what would have happened if it broke).

I forget who it was but i remember this dude in MIST pools that raged vs me when I 4 stocked him twice. He thought he had a serious chance or something which is why I suspect that caused the rage lol.

 

[outofphase]

i was just wondering why people cite the ability of a player as reason why a character isn't as good the players placement? i mean you can theorize about why peach isn't the best character but when it comes down to it armada is representative of peach's current metagame. other top players are also representative of their characters top level metagame. wouldn't that make it so peach's metagame>fox/falco/sheik/marth? not even so much the list itself but in character matchups. i kind of understand why people make the distinction, but i feel like alot of people adopt that train of thought without considering others. id like to hear this expanded upon, it seems like an important discussion to have when making a tier list.

 

[Strong Badam]

David: I feel like Peach-DK /could/ be 70-30, but then I'd need to revise my other MU ratios to be worse because that feels closer to even than most higher tiered MUs.
Though, playing VaNz's Peach was like the most helpless I've ever felt in this game. I guess every other Peach sucks at the match-up.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Metagame includes tactics and strategies for a character or a match-up or on a stage.

Player skill includes things like execution, reads, mental fortitude, patience and unpredictability.

When making a tier list, we are trying to remove the player from the equation. This is an impossible feat, but it leads to good philosophical discussion. In order to do that, we talk about things in the scope of the metagame, things any player can do, to determine through somewhat objective means what character wins what match-ups and do well in tournament.

There is also the problem of defining a tier list. It is not simply the act of ordering characters based on "good-ness" it is the act of ordering characters based on their ability to win a tournament (not just place well). Because of that, if a character has positive match-ups against everyone, but loses hard to one character, they don't really have a good chance of winning a tournament. It'd be like expecting an IC player to win a tournament, as long as they never run into a fox or peach. Characters that have less less severe disadvantaged matchups, even if they have more of them, have a higher chance of actually winning the tournament.

 

[Bones0]

Metagame includes tactics and strategies for a character or a match-up or on a stage.

Player skill includes things like execution, reads, mental fortitude, patience and unpredictability.

When making a tier list, we are trying to remove the player from the equation. This is an impossible feat, but it leads to good philosophical discussion. In order to do that, we talk about things in the scope of the metagame, things any player can do, to determine through somewhat objective means what character wins what match-ups and do well in tournament.

There is also the problem of defining a tier list. It is not simply the act of ordering characters based on "good-ness" it is the act of ordering characters based on their ability to win a tournament (not just place well). Because of that, if a character has positive match-ups against everyone, but loses hard to one character, they don't really have a good chance of winning a tournament. It'd be like expecting an IC player to win a tournament, as long as they never run into a fox or peach. Characters that have less less severe disadvantaged matchups, even if they have more of them, have a higher chance of actually winning the tournament.

Characters also have an impact on a player's ability to properly utilize execution, reads, mental fortitude, patience, and unpredictability. That makes the whole thing even more messy because at what point do you stop attributing a player's good execution or unpredictability to their skill, and begin attributing it to their character's accommodating or flexible metagame?

Just throwing that out there.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Just retroactively decide which characters are good by using tournament results as the basis of character placement. Nevermind all the absolutely horrible inductive reasoning and misrepresentation results can have.

 

[KirbyKaze]

David: I feel like Peach-DK /could/ be 70-30, but then I'd need to revise my other MU ratios to be worse because that feels closer to even than most higher tiered MUs.
Though, playing VaNz's Peach was like the most helpless I've ever felt in this game. I guess every other Peach sucks at the match-up.

DK is a monkey

Peach is a princess

Monkeys don't eat princesses silly

 

[Archangel]

I saw a very good DK vs Peach set once in a Europe tournament. Rarely do you see that match-up contested on close to even terms.

I want to say it's 65-35-60-40 depending on what stages are legal and how bad peach wants to win.

 

[odinNJ]

Honestly what can Dk do to peach if she spaces correctly and capitilizes on oppyrtunities. Even when he becomes juggernaut and spins like a monkey she can still dair-> nair him If she can catch him below her offstage. IMO its not that great a match up

Edit: ignore my spelling I'm typing this on a phone

 

[john!]

peach dair loses to everything lol

 

[odinNJ]

Yes but dks upB hitbox doesn't cover that his head, so if peach is above him
Her dair can catch him

 

[KirbyKaze]

peach dair loses to everything lol

It doesn't lose to nothing and for whole chunks of space on and surrounding his character that's what DK's got protecting him

 

[Wake]

Guys, DK can't block. Just pick Peach, and beat him up. It's a terrible MU.

 

[Ripple]

why pick peach when you can pick falco and force him to face forward?

 

[Wake]

Overkill, IMO. lol

 

[Strong Badam]

I don't have any interest in theorycrafting DK vs. Peach with someone who uses neither of those characters.

 

[Vudujin]

DK is a monkey

Peach is a princess

Monkeys don't eat princesses silly

KK, I love your simplification of every character.

 

[KirbyKaze]

My growing insanity is adorable.

 

[Vudujin]

You hit the nail on the head with the Mario Bros. being clowns. I never really even noticed the resemblance until you posted that.

 

[odinNJ]

Would this be a good time to say that my friends call falcon "muscle man" and justify every one of his winning matchups with the logic that he can just "skateboard" around the stage

 

[Bones0]

Would this be a good time to say that my friends call falcon "muscle man" and justify every one of his winning matchups with the logic that he can just "skateboard" around the stage

I think you meant Bowser.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

bowser's feet are actually skateboards.

 

[DrinkingFood]

wrong, they're electric trolleys.

 

[odinNJ]

I always considered bowsers feet to be treads. But this doesn't go along with my bowser is a cat thing

 

[iRobinhoood]

2013 Tier List? = D

 

[KirbyKaze]

--Banned Tier--

SD Remix Pichu
Older versions of PM Ness
Items
Yoshi's jump out of shield

--Top Tier--

Falco
Fox
Metaknight
The "B" button
Melee SD Remix Ness
PM v1.0012 Lucario (pre-update)
NTSC Sheik
UMVC3 Phoenix
Jigglypuff
Marth
Peach
Hot Chip

--High Tier--

PAL Sheik
Jona Falcon
PM Knuckles
Captain Falcon
SD Remix Zelda
Ice Climbers / Wario (ruleset dependent)
The "A" button
SD Remix Kirby
Doctor Mario

Then some mix of Snake, Ganon, Samus, Pikachu, ZSS, Luigi, and Mario for mid tier. Maybe Link and DK if you're feeling generous.

Low tier is unordered because recent developments in the metagame killed them so they're dead.

I'm MBR so this list is perfect. Discuss.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I'm confused as to why Metaknight and The "B" Button have different spots on the tier list, aren't they the same thing?

 

[KirbyKaze]

The additional options Metaknight has over the B button gives him greater versatility as a character, even if he generally doesn't need it.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

OK thank you

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yo, I said it in the MBR I'll say it here, SD Remix Pichu > SD Remix Ness. You just cant discount those crazy CP stage advantages and 0-Deaths. I'd also like to point out I stand by my "SD Remix Kirby Shine > A Button" stance