Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Stevo]

+1 for Umbreon, PP, KK, and Cactuar FFA alcohol match.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I fully intend to do Peach ditto MMs where we run through the entire stagelist with any willing Peach main/person who uses her. Like a best of...however many stages there are in this game.

I think that Icicle Mountain might be Fox's worst stage (even though there isn't a bad stage for him, lol). His best is probably Hyrule, Pipes, Yoshi's 64....well, there are a lot to choose from.

 

[Wake]

I'm definitely ready to do that, Shrouded.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Icicle mountain is great for fox. He has pretty fast, high jumps and can blinkblink people off the screen

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Fox's worst stage is probably FD because over half the cast can auto-death him from a grab on it.

He still ***** there though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

My God.

What have I started.

 

[Divinokage]

**** this, my prowess is far more important than random ****.

 

[choknater]

haha i just tried searching for some umbreon videos on youtube and every match was 5 years old

except for a random tournament this june where he got carried in teams by mew2king

shoutouts to all zelda players out there, good luck!

 

[Purpletuce]

It is wierd whenever I see a smasher, and realize that I only know them from this thread. . . and I'm like. . . whoa! They play Melee?

Also, did you know choknater is one of two people on SWF with a legitimate "Smash Obsessed" title?

 

[Ripple]

choknater needs to get a life.

 

[choknater]

i think i found it on youtube search function

 

[Pink Reaper]

It is wierd whenever I see a smasher, and realize that I only know them from this thread. . . and I'm like. . . whoa! They play Melee?

Also, did you know choknater is one of two people on SWF with a legitimate "Smash Obsessed" title?

Oh man, you werent here when he had his negative postcount were you?

 

[Deleted member]

haha i just tried searching for some umbreon videos on youtube and every match was 5 years old

except for a random tournament this june where he got carried in teams by mew2king

shoutouts to all zelda players out there, good luck!

yeah i didn't do so hot in those teams matches, or most of the matches that tournament. it happens.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm trying to catch up to Chok :X

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

There are 5 people on the site with more posts than him, you know

 

[Purpletuce]

I am aware that there are others with more posts than him, but they all have different titles, mainly custom titles. I just thought it was interesting. And no, I never saw any negative post counts. :\

I'm green.

 

[EthereaL]

Let's talk about how no-ban stage selecting could impact the tier list (primarily ending at the top 12...no offense low tiers).

 

[Kink-Link5]

Stage lists are not meant to implicitly impact the tier list or character balance.

But sure.

Winner of first game means even more than it does now since Marth can just CP a Falco to FD if he wins game 1 on a neutral stage. This and its extensions are the fundamental differences this would have on the metagame. Like, just replace Marth and Flako with any other character combination and FD with whatever relevant stages work for them.

 

[Purpletuce]

Counterpicks will have more weight, and that will only reinforce extremes. So . . . it will make a bigger relience on first game for sure, especially considering most top tiers have a stage or two that they can abuse. . . especially against certain characters. It just seems like a bad idea. . . if anything, sets could use more neutral matches then extreme ones in my opinion. Like a Bo5 with ban active the whole set. . . might be bad fro some characters like Marth, who really like certain stages though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wow you guys really have no idea what you're talking about

Like god damn

 

[Purpletuce]

I don't follow. My statements seemed pretty bland and didn't really seem to make controversial claims. Unless you're talking about something else. . . why so negative?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't follow. My statements seemed pretty bland and didn't really seem to make controversial claims. Unless you're talking about something else. . . why so negative?

Counterpicks will have more weight, and that will only reinforce extremes. So . . . it will make a bigger relience on first game for sure, especially considering most top tiers have a stage or two that they can abuse. . . especially against certain characters. It just seems like a bad idea. . . if anything, sets could use more neutral matches then extreme ones in my opinion. Like a Bo5 with ban active the whole set. . . might be bad fro some characters like Marth, who really like certain stages though.

I think whatever reliance on counterpicks you think the current ruleset is encouraging doesn't hold a god damn candle to the CP abuse that existed in previous rulesets, regardless of whether or not you got your precious singular stage ban

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I do agree that removing stage bans is a step backwards in terms of "fairness"

 

[Bones0]

Even on FD with spacies the matchups aren't skewed that much by the hardest neutral CP. What player is generally better or comes into the game with the better strategy will still win 90% of the time. The only problem with no bans is how DSR makes it possible to get the same good cp twice in a 5-game set, and I fixed this. Even if we randomed every stage it probably wouldn't affect results until the tippy top levels where players abuse every intricacy known to man. Even with seemingly bad stage selections like Marth on DL, if a Marth main practices and cps DL all the time, it'll probably serve him well as a cp because he'll have a book of strats to play that stage, and most people won't know how to play Marth as well on DL since they always ban it.

 

[Divinokage]

I think whatever reliance on counterpicks you think the current ruleset is encouraging doesn't hold a god damn candle to the CP abuse that existed in previous rulesets, regardless of whether or not you got your precious singular stage ban

I want Brinstar again, I have good memories with that stage.. lol. Like killing a Jiggs at 0% with invisible ceiling glitch with a dair inside the lava and then he died at the bottom.

 

[KrIsP!]

lolwut? Kage if you come to Toronto I want to take you to brinstar and see this.

 

[EthereaL]

KirbyKaze, nobody was comparing the current list to the old one. Yes, it was more abusable back then. Why does that matter in regards to the conversation at hand?

 

[Purpletuce]

I was simply comparing the current setup with one without bans. Also, keep in mind how new I am, I can't compare to the older rulesets, this is the same ruleset that was around when I started playing. It should also be noted I don't really want a singular stage ban on bo5s, I was just saying that more stage ban would seem more fair relative to no bans. I like the increased stage diversity on the longer sets though, so I think the current rules work very well. (Although it should be noted that I have limited experience in playing bo5s.)

 

[Pink Reaper]

I do agree that removing stage bans is a step backwards in terms of "fairness"

Obviously because Fox/Falco can ban their only bad stage and proceed to be at an advantage in nearly every match up on every other stage, having a stage ban is a good thing.

Have we really moved so far backwards that we consider CGing unfair?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Obviously because Fox/Falco can ban their only bad stage and proceed to be at an advantage in nearly every match up on every other stage, having a stage ban is a good thing.

Have we really moved so far backwards that we consider CGing unfair?

No I was thinking more along the lines that Falcon could ban FoD, Peach could ban Stadium, Ganon could ban FD, and Marth could ban Dreamland. Every character has one stage that disfavors them more than the others. It should tell you something that, depending on the matchup, "neutral" stages were just as commonly banned as not back when there were legit CPs.

Stage banning is similar to stage striking, it removes the perceived most unfair stages and leaves a set of stages that are more fair, as agreed by the players. The only reason stage bans are being removed is because somebody would rather see 5/6 neutrals played in a best of 5 over 4 neutrals with 1 repeat.

Has any tournament in NA done a best of 7? That would be the only reason, in my mind, to remove stage bans. Best of 5 can use DSRM and be just fine.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Why are we trying to change the game balance through the ruleset.

**** let's do coin matches so Ice Climbers can be top tier.

 

[choknater]

ic's would still lose to peach HARD in coin battles

 

[EthereaL]

Why are we trying to change the game balance through the ruleset.

**** let's do coin matches so Ice Climbers can be top tier.

I asked to discuss how removing bans would impact character placement on the tier list.

Thinking that rules shouldn't/don't impact the game's balance is silly, just like thinking that the Stage List shouldn't/don't impact the game's balance is silly.

 

[Gea]

I want Brinstar again, I have good memories with that stage.. lol. Like killing a Jiggs at 0% with invisible ceiling glitch with a dair inside the lava and then he died at the bottom.

lolwut? Kage if you come to Toronto I want to take you to brinstar and see this.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it was not the invisible ceiling glitch, but rather the Brinstar glitch involving someone getting pushed into the acid under certain circumstances.

I think whatever reliance on counterpicks you think the current ruleset is encouraging doesn't hold a god damn candle to the CP abuse that existed in previous rulesets, regardless of whether or not you got your precious singular stage ban

Someone hated the old ruleset.

 

[JPOBS]

I asked to discuss how removing bans would impact character placement on the tier list.

Thinking that rules shouldn't/don't impact the game's balance is silly, just like thinking that the Stage List shouldn't/don't impact the game's balance is silly.

You are silly. I don't think you've ever said anything that even remotely resembles a good idea.

 

[ShroudedOne]

 

[Divinokage]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it was not the invisible ceiling glitch, but rather the Brinstar glitch involving someone getting pushed into the acid under certain circumstances.

That's the invisible ceiling.. it's just a bug of a bug. Hitting the acid just happens that you'll get spiked.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yep. And if you get invisible ceiling glitched, you will continue to be "spiked" until you touch the ground again. That is why the acid repeatedly spikes.

 

[Bones0]

Best of 5 can use DSRM and be just fine.

No, it definitely cannot. DSRm makes it matter WHAT stages/matches you win. If someone breaks their opponent's cp (like breaking serve in tennis), then not only do they get a win on that stage, but they get to cp their best stage AGAIN. I give a better explanation in my thread.

Thinking that rules shouldn't/don't impact the game's balance is silly, just like thinking that the Stage List shouldn't/don't impact the game's balance is silly.

This is the dumbest thing ever. Trying to balance the game by changing the rule set is dumb for so many reasons:

1. The metagame changes. If we had banned everything that was good for Sheik when the game first came out, we lose any potential for players to actually get around Sheik's strategies. Maybe FD would've been banned because she can CG half the cast, and no one would have bothered learning how to actually get out of CGs or avoid grabs.

2. Balance is opinion-based. Just because some people think spacies are overpowered and need FD to drag them down doesn't mean everyone thinks that. Maybe I think Peach is the best character and DL benefits her way too much. My suggestion that we use a rule set that has bans just so Peach can't cp DL is just as invalid as someone applying a ruleset without bans just so people can cp spacies to FD.

3. You are arbitrarily choosing what to balance. If you wanted to balance the entire game so that Pichu has just as much of a chance at winning as other characters, we should put items on High and play Super Sudden Death. It'd vastly increase character diversity, but that doesn't mean much when there's no competitive value.

 

[EthereaL]

I didn't say that the ruleset should be changed further, nor do I really see a reason for it to.

I don't understand how any of your points are relevant to what I said, Bones0, but it is still silly to think that rules shouldn't or don't impact game balance when that's what has been done for years.