Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Fortress | Sveet]

Mario has much better range and better comboing moves. And the only difference is mario's bair sends a different angle... not that big of an impact really

 

[Bing]

Someone earlier mentioned that their persception of Doc was swayed by Shroomed and that maybe if someone could **** with Mario they'd Change their mind.

One name: ScorpionMaster.

 

[The Star King]

ScorpionMaster vids made me realize how good Mario's FSmash is

 

[stelzig]

Someone earlier mentioned that their persception of Doc was swayed by Shroomed and that maybe if someone could **** with Mario they'd Change their mind.

One name: ScorpionMaster.

That was me, and I also said that I already thought doc was better before I knew shroomed, because that has been my personal experience as well.

I do know about scorpion master. He is my favourite player.

 

[choknater]

ScorpionMaster vids made me realize how good Mario's FSmash is

This. Such good range

 

[Grim Tuesday]

IMO:
When you get to Armada/PP/Mango/etc... level, Doc and Mario might as well be identical.

At lower levels, Mario's difficulty KO'ing puts him noticeably behind.

Anyone disagree?

 

[Bing]

IMO:
When you get to Armada/PP/Mango/etc... level, Doc and Mario might as well be identical.

At lower levels, Mario's difficulty KO'ing puts him noticeably behind.

Anyone disagree?

I do agree to an extent. I mean, there are certain MU's that Doc can handle better than Mario, but for the most part I do agree..

 

[ShroudedOne]

The comparison between Roy/Marth and Doc/Mario was meant to make the point that you can't just say, "These two characters may have slight differences, but they've the same moveset, so they can't be that far apart." Roy/Marth are just somewhat more radical, because all of Roy's moves are just different enough, as well as his weight/fall speed making a difference.

I'm not saying that the two clone pairs are comparable, I'm say that if you're going to use some sort of explanation/reasoning on one, then use it on the other.

 

[Stevo]

when I play mario, I spam the **** out of f-smash

 

[Strong Badam]

Mario has much better range and better comboing moves. And the only difference is mario's bair sends a different angle... not that big of an impact really

if sheik's fair sent at the same angle as her nair, it'd make a pretty big difference

 

[Stevo]

if sheik's fair sent at the same angle as her nair, it'd make a pretty big difference

Sheik's fair is much more integral to her game than Doc's Bair, but I agree with you to a point that it does make a difference.

 

[DwightDL]

just curious, when are we due for a new rendition of the tier list?

 

[Strong Badam]

Sheik's fair is much more integral to her game than Doc's Bair, but I agree with you to a point that it does make a difference.

I agree; Sheik's fair is very useful in the neutral game because of its quick autocancel window. Doc's bair is more used as an edgeguarding tool. But as far as killing/edgeguarding goes, the angle is very important. Knee's angle is also part of why it's so strong.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I don't think the angle would change all that much. As long as it sends them off stage and then you edgehog and keep hitting them off.

 

[Bones0]

I agree with JPOBS (about everything, especially Peach) and Sveet. Also, people love to talk about all of Doc's advantages over Mario, but never Mario's good points. Mario's utilt is incredible while Doc's is much more situational. I think the difference in their utilts has a MUCH greater influence on matchups than their bairs having slightly different angles. You really don't see characters recovering vs. Mario more often than Doc because his bair hits them at a higher angle. It just gives them one or two more attempts before they're too far off. In a LOT of matchups it barely comes into play at all because they can both just cape recoveries (with Mario's cape going further out, btw; another difference that's rarely mentioned).

Basically, Shroomed should go Mario and Scorp should go Doc in tournament so we can compare. :3

 

[tarheeljks]

well that's true of lots of edgeguarding moves. the trajectory of doc's bair removes options, which sets up easier edgeguards. edgehogging isn't an option if they can come from above the ledge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWpqxJjxS74#&t=1m42s

if that's mario's bair he will still probably be ~ ledge height (at least)

idk about doc/mario overall. doc mains think he's noticeably better which is good enough for me. don't see the case for his bair being something other than much better (in practice)

 

[The Star King]

Scorpadorp using the MD? Blasphemy.

 

[Bones0]

Scorpadoc.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Just to give a visual.

I've nothing else that I haven't already repeated endlessly in here.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Shrouded ninja'd me.

 

[phish-it]

Just to give a visual.

I've nothing else that I haven't already repeated endlessly in here.

If you notice the third hitbox on Doc's cape, it is lower than what Mario has, which makes it easier to cape people sweetspotting the edge.

Doc's cape is more useful for edgeguarding, Mario's is better for recovering however since it gives him a boost on the first attempt.

 

[The Star King]

nvm I'm dumb

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lower cape means it covers certain sweetspots, but less range means your spacing/timing has much less room for error.

 

[choknater]

wow doc's cape actually has a really huge hitbox

 

[Wake]

Oh. I didn't know just how different the capes were. It always felt like Mario's was better for recovering though. Interesting. Thanks ShroudedOne.

 

[Max?]

Doc's utilt is amazing. I know how to space it so I get a pop up like Mario's utilt, or to do a jank hit which acts like the jank hit of Marth's utilt and sends people out at a weird angle. You just have to know how to space it.

I could post up a huge long post about Doc and Mario, but then people who don't main either character and discuss things mostly out of theory would come in here and tell me I'm wrong, so good day smashboards

 

[danieljosebatista]

^lol fair enough

 

[Warhawk]

Doc's cape has a ridiculously wide range lol

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I could post up a huge long post about Doc and Mario, but then people who don't main either character and discuss things mostly out of theory would come in here and tell me I'm wrong, so good day smashboards

sounds similar to some of leffens older posts

 

[ShroudedOne]

What? OTG caring about whether or not people think he's wrong on an internet forum? I never thought I'd see the day.

You should post it anyways. The sensible ones will see, and you wouldn't be writing for those who aren't.

 

[Varist]

@Shrouded hate when people open quotes and never close them

@otg who cares write it anyway i'll read it i love doc and mario talk about combos more

 

[ShroudedOne]

I found the mistake, Varist. Needless to say, I'm disappointed in myself.

 

[john!]

but if otg posts something incorrect, we're not allowed to disagree because it would mean that we're stupid theorycrafters

 

[N64]

Why are people putting up lists where ICs aren't 8th. That's like, the requirement for a legitimate tier list.

 

[stelzig]

Doc dtilt to pikachu usmash is also the greatest combo on jigglypuff ever. You can't do that with mario

 

[Grim Tuesday]

-CRITERIA-
Characters are ranked in order of how well they would perform in a tournament at the highest current level of play in my opinion.

-VIABLE-
A Tier:


B Tier:


C Tier:


-SEMI VIABLE-
D Tier:


E Tier:
:ganonmelee:

F Tier:


-UNVIABLE-
G Tier:


H Tier:


I Tier:
:gwmelee:

J Tier:


Some explanations...
Sheik > Puff just because of how much better Sheik does against low tiers and the theory that match-ups converge as the players get better, so low tiers would be more common.
ICs with Peach/Falcon because I'm biased.
Mario and Luigi over the usual upper mid tiers because I think that their more offensive, fast games work better at high level compared to punishment-based characters like Ganondorf.
I've always thought Samus was bad. Too slow.
Yoshi is high because he is underrated.
Donkey Kong and Zelda a bit lower because they are defensive like Ganon.
Kirby is underrated.
Bowser is overrated/defensive.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Interesting list

 

[Strong Badam]

gorilla
gorilla

 

[Max?]

but if otg posts something incorrect, we're not allowed to disagree because it would mean that we're stupid theorycrafters

John you're one of my favorite posters on the boards.

I don't know how you're able to type or post when you're jerking off two ***** and sucking one at the same time tho

 

[Warhawk]

Mario and Luigi over the usual upper mid tiers because I think that their more offensive, fast games work better at high level compared to punishment-based characters like Ganondorf.

The way you set up your list was how I thought it should be set up, by breaking it down into viable, semi-viable, and unviable characters and I think it works very well. I'm curious though as to your reasoning for putting Mario and Luigi higher up and above Pikachu when Pikachu probably has a faster and better offensive game than them which was your reasoning for moving them higher and Pika's still below Ganon on your list.