Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[ShadowLink84]

Thats...quite bad...

 

[Crank]

Please don't base things off that chart. >_<
I mean, the match-up's are so off that Dedede is in low tier.

I know I know, but matchups are a big part of it, and D3 is kind of iffy when it comes to that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

matchups are indeed a factor but the tournament results should be factored in the most.

That and the chart is rather outdated.

 

[Crank]

matchups are indeed a factor but the tournament results should be factored in the most.

That and the chart is rather outdated.

Its updated from time to time, and the last is from July 31st I believe. I do agree that tournament results are a big part of it, but matchups are an important part too. If I were to factor in tournament results, it would look alot different.

 

[Mmac]

He only like updates 4 matchup's a month.


If we're lucky......

 

[Crank]

He only like updates 4 matchup's a month.


If we're lucky......

Oh well, as I said, feel free to flame

 

[Nestec]

The way this tier list discussion is going is getting ridiculous!

Ankoku's rankings thread is NOT a tier list! It doesn't say what characters can do, it says what they are doing. It doesn't account for people not playing a character very much y'all! I have a pretty good feeling that Lucas is more played than Ness, Lucas is much simpler and less intricate.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know that it's not a tier list. I was saying that since Lucas just surpassed Ness on the tourney-rankings, that likely puts him higher than Ness on our little non-existent unofficial tier-list. Since it's based on tourney results and match-ups (which haven't been agreed upon yet, but I'm getting the impression that Lucas wins here, correct me if I'm wrong).

Character ability is important too, but I'm not sure I can decide who has more potential between Ness and Lucas without sounding too biased. ^__^

 

[Crank]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know that it's not a tier list. I was saying that since Lucas just surpassed Ness on the tourney-rankings, that likely puts him higher than Ness on our little non-existent unofficial tier-list. Since it's based on tourney results and match-ups (which haven't been agreed upon yet, but I'm getting the impression that Lucas wins here, correct me if I'm wrong).

Character ability is important too, but I'm not sure I can decide who has more potential between Ness and Lucas without sounding too biased. ^__^

I would say Lucas myself. Better recovery via zapjump, better ground game imo.

 

[Pikaville]

I would also say Lucas is the better of the 2.His aerials pack more of a punch too

He is also a fantastic team mate for pika IMO!

You need to find someone with a lot of time on their hands to keep a regularly updated chart.It wont be for a while yet.The back room will sort it out eventually I reckon around October-November we'll have an idea of the tier list.

For now we just have to wait for someone who is bothered to make an accurate up to date chart.......

 

[Browny]

I would also say Lucas is the better of the 2.His aerials pack more of a punch too

have you even played Ness, ever? try that first

 

[ROOOOY!]

Ness' aerials >>> Lucas' aerials.
Please.
However, Lucas' ground game is better, and his recovery is better than Ness'.
I'd still say Ness has more potential though. Factor in his good throws.

 

[exidid]

That chart isn't really thought through.

 

[Rhykune]

Ness is a better character in almost every aspect.

Throws, Specials, Smashes, Aerials, Ness wins in almost every category.
The only things that I can thing off that Lucas is better at are recovery and FSmashing

 

[Wrath`]

Ness is a better character in almost every aspect.

Throws, Specials, Smashes, Aerials, Ness wins in almost every category.
The only things that I can thing off that Lucas is better at are recovery and FSmashing

Lucas>ness in specials and smashes easily

Specials: Pk freeze faster and wider range+less lag, lucases PK fire is again quicker and good for spacing, Pk magnet isn't much, but lacas can cause damage. PK thunder much better casue opponets can't gimp it, like you can ness.

Lucas's Up and down smash are stronger and have more knockback that ness's yo yo. And his bat to me has seen more Ko's the ness's, even tho it is supposed to be the other way around.

Overall lucas is better.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Lucas>ness in specials and smashes easily

LOL WUT?

Specials: Pk freeze faster and wider range+less lag, lucases PK fire is again quicker and good for spacing, Pk magnet isn't much, but lacas can cause damage. PK thunder much better casue opponets can't gimp it, like you can ness.

PK Freeze=less controllable+less kill power+slightly less lag.
PK fire=better but less combo capability and less setups.
PK magne=better
PK thunder=not better. Its even. ness's PK thunder=stronger

Lucas's Up and down smash are stronger and have more knockback that ness's yo yo.

but the Usmash has much more start up, and less range.

Dsmash has much less range and is slower and cannot attack while charging.

And his bat to me has seen more Ko's the ness's, even tho it is supposed to be the other way around.

Overall lucas is better.

ness'sFsmash>>>Lucas' Fsmash. Its a fact

 

[Blackbelt]

As a Lucas main, I must say that Ness is superior.

 

[Wrath`]

LOL WUT?(your mom




ness'sFsmash>>>Lucas' Fsmash. Its a fact

Not on my game, Lucas almost KO all the time, ness barley KO's I tested it, no full charge just a smash tap,

 

[Blackbelt]

Not on my game, Lucas almost KO all the time, ness barley KO's I tested it, no full charge just a smash tap,

Ness' FSmash tips. You aren't spacing right.

 

[Nestec]

Oops, hope I didn't just start a Ness vs Lucas debate. Lol, take that elsewhere, pplz...>_<

 

[ShadowLink84]

Stupidity

no, you're wrong.
its been tested.
Ness tipper of Fsmash>>>Lucas base Fsmash.

Lurk moar poast less

 

[Judge Judy]

Please don't base things off that chart. >_<
I mean, the match-up's are so off that Dedede is in low tier.

I lol'd at that. That match-up chart is pathetic, the only match-ups that are even vaguely accurate are the ones for Meta Knight and Snake.

 

[popsofctown]

Why can't Ness and Lucas be friends?!!?

 

[Deathcarter]

I lol'd at that. That match-up chart is pathetic, the only match-ups that are even vaguely accurate are the ones for Meta Knight and Snake.

Agreed. I don't know why there isn't any respected poster to be bothered to make a chart. It is a pain to go to each character board to find out their matchups .

 

[Mmac]

Turns out that Wario can be Infinited by Bowser, Ganondorf, Falcon, and Zelda also. Now he has 6 :S

 

[Browny]

Ness' tipper fsmash is awesome lol. someone corret me if im wrong, but isnt it the strongest fsmash in the game (24% uncharged tipper) and has knockback comparable to a luigi fsmash?

 

[Flandy121]

President of the world

just to put an end to things.

A tier list is made from the following

1.Tournament results (most important)
2. Characters matchups
3.Characters abilities.

It takes all these factors into account not just one singular.
So lets say Sonic is number 1 tournament wise. he may not be #1 tier list wise because of his matchups and abilities.

The tournaments do affect the tier list most but it doesn't dictate all of it. Nor is it necessary for a tier list to follow the tournament results.

Seeing as how ShadowLink84 is god, jesus, Zeus, Buddha, the mesiah, and the 9th wonder of the world I'm glad he gets to be the end all be all. "Just to put an end to things" ShadowLink is the president of the world so we should stop posting all together. Don't worry he has THE OFFICIAL TIER LIST. So no more debate is needed. Voting. Opinions, Collective interest, F-that crap. No one else matters, as long as we all just go along with it no one else needs to lose sleep.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Turns out that Wario can be Infinited by Bowser, Ganondorf, Falcon, and Zelda also. Now he has 6 :S

And you're the one going out of your way to find them all! *slaps with a fish* Having Yoshi being able to do it was fine but now it's just getting ********...

 

[Tenki]

Seeing as how ShadowLink84 is god, jesus, Zeus, Buddha, the mesiah, and the 9th wonder of the world I'm glad he gets to be the end all be all. "Just to put an end to things" ShadowLink is the president of the world so we should stop posting all together. Don't worry he has THE OFFICIAL TIER LIST. So no more debate is needed. Voting. Opinions, Collective interest, F-that crap. No one else matters, as long as we all just go along with it no one else needs to lose sleep.

Way to misinterpret something. Learn to read.

All he did was give the factors that a tier list should be made of.

Tournament results
Character matchups
Character abilities

Of those 3, matchups and abilities are still under debate.

I don't follow this thread much, but lately smashboards is turning into a nawbdump.

 

[BlackYoshi7]

The tournament list would do better as a ranking if we could take a percentage of the people making the top 8, whatever, as a fraction of how many people were maining that character. Of course, without some form of character registration pre-tournament, this would be practically impossible.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The tournament list would do better as a ranking if we could take a percentage of the people making the top 8, whatever, as a fraction of how many people were maining that character. Of course, without some form of character registration pre-tournament, this would be practically impossible.

But it's still the most reliable source of information on tiers right now, since it's based on facts. Match-up's aren't remotely cleared yet, as can be seen in the match-up thread...

 

[adumbrodeus]

But it's still the most reliable source of information on tiers right now, since it's based on facts. Match-up's aren't remotely cleared yet, as can be seen in the match-up thread...

But it doesn't factor in characters that are inherently superior but have one or two popular bad match-ups which ruins their results relative to what they should be. *cough cough* MK for top spot *cough cough*

A lot of other characters I can guarantee, have tournament results greatly affected by this, Zelda, Toon Link, pretty much the chars that everyone expected to be good but ended up having no tournament standings.




Speaking of which, Mk players need to abuse their advantages against Snake, really Snake only has an advantage vs. the current MK playstyle (aka "jumping into the ****").

 

[Falling Whistness]

I scanned the last 150 pages or so of this thread and grabbed all the tier lists posted (only 1 per person (latest) and no joke posts) and averaged them to come up with a tier list based on everyone's combined tier lists.

So if you don't like this tier list, blame yourselves, not me:

Top Tier
1. Snake
2. Meta Knight

High Tier
1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. Marth
3. R.O.B.
4. Falco
5. King DeDeDe
6. Olimar
7. Wario

Middle Tier
1. Donkey Kong
2. Toon Link
3. Wolf
4. Lucario
5. Pit
6. Pikachu
7. Ice Climbers
8. Kirby
9. Zelda
10. Fox
11. Diddy Kong

Lower Middle Tier
1. Zero Suit Samus
2. Luigi
3. Lucas
4. Ness
5. Peach

Low Tier
1. Mario
2. Sheik
3. Sonic
4. Ike
5. Pokemon Trainer
6. Samus
7. Bowser
8. Link
9. Yoshi
10. Jigglypuff

Bottom Tier
1. Ganondorf
2. Captain Falcon


I put the tiers where they fit logically based on the data. It was really ridiculously close up top between Snake and Meta.

 

[Nitrix]

Top Tier
1. Snake
2. Meta Knight

High Tier
1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. Marth
3. R.O.B.
4. Falco
5. King DeDeDe
6. Olimar
7. Wario

Middle Tier
1. Donkey Kong
2. Toon Link
3. Wolf
4. Lucario
5. Pit
6. Pikachu
7. Ice Climbers
8. Kirby
9. Zelda
10. Fox
11. Diddy Kong

Lower Middle Tier
1. Zero Suit Samus
2. Luigi
3. Lucas
4. Ness
5. Peach

Low Tier
1. Mario
2. Sheik
3. Sonic
4. Ike
5. Pokemon Trainer
6. Samus
7. Bowser
8. Link
9. Yoshi
10. Jigglypuff

Bottom Tier
1. Ganondorf
2. Captain Falcon

Pikachu deserves to be higher, while Olimar deserves to be lower. Diddy needs to be in high tier. I'd bring ICs up a bit and lower Wolf a tad as well. Samus also should be bumped. Otherwise things look not-so-bad.

 

[Frate]

I scanned the last 150 pages or so of this thread and grabbed all the tier lists posted (only 1 per person (latest) and no joke posts) and averaged them to come up with a tier list based on everyone's combined tier lists.

So if you don't like this tier list, blame yourselves, not me:

Top Tier
1. Snake
2. Meta Knight

High Tier
1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. Marth
3. R.O.B.
4. Falco
5. King DeDeDe
6. Olimar
7. Wario

Middle Tier
1. Donkey Kong
2. Toon Link
3. Wolf
4. Lucario
5. Pit
6. Pikachu
7. Ice Climbers
8. Kirby
9. Zelda
10. Fox
11. Diddy Kong

Lower Middle Tier
1. Zero Suit Samus
2. Luigi
3. Lucas
4. Ness
5. Peach

Low Tier
1. Mario
2. Sheik
3. Sonic
4. Ike
5. Pokemon Trainer
6. Samus
7. Bowser
8. Link
9. Yoshi
10. Jigglypuff

Bottom Tier
1. Ganondorf
2. Captain Falcon


I put the tiers where they fit logically based on the data. It was really ridiculously close up top between Snake and Meta.

Sounds good enough. I still think Link > Samus though. IC is not lower than wolf imo. Else it's quite good!
I don't have an opinion for diddy, so I can't say anything about him.

 

[DanGR]

My revised list

God:
Meta Knight

Not top. god tier. He is better than every character. He has no disadvantaged matchups and if anyone tells you otherwise, they're wrong. He and Snake skew the tourney results too much for me to consider tourney results. period.

High:
Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B
King Dedede

Wario
Captain Olimar
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong

Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Sheik/Zelda

Low: [no particuler order]
Kirby
Pit
Lucario
Toon Link
Peach
Wolf
Fox
Zero Suit Samus
Lucas
Ness

[no particular order]
Jigglypuff
Mario
Yoshi
Sonic
Ganondorf
Pokemon Trainer
Captain Falcon
Bowser
Ike
Samus
Link

You can flame me if you want. I don't really care.

 

[Xiivi]

You can flame me if you want. I don't really care.

You forgot like Wolf or something and have Ness twice. rofl

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic is much too low.

Considering that Snake and MK are skewing the results somewhat he is still doing relatively better than a few characters.

Hmm that bring to question, does he perform better against the more popular characters than those below him?

it would be a reasonable explanation.

 

[DanGR]

You forgot like Wolf or something and have Ness twice. rofl

Ness is that good. wolf isn't good enough to deserve a spot in tiers. lol

jk, it's fixed. No other comments?

 

[Pieisthebest]

The list is hawt, its even Hawter for the fact that the bottom half isnt ordered, the top half looks fine

*no sarcasm intended*

 

[Dark Sonic]

Sonic is much too low.

Considering that Snake and MK are skewing the results somewhat he is still doing relatively better than a few characters.

Hmm that bring to question, does he perform better against the more popular characters than those below him?

it would be a reasonable explanation.

He doesn't do too bad against Snake (once you learn how to deal with grenades anyway), but Metaknight is one of his worst matchups (along with Luigi). I wouldn't say he's doing well, but I certainly wouldn't consider him bottom tier. Mid low or high low tier sounds better, putting him above Yoshi and Jigglypuff. Having the surge of Snakes to get rid of some of the Metaknights could actually be considered benifitial to some of the lower tiered characters (who all get ***** by Metaknight, but tend to do better against Snake).

I also noticed that DanGR's tier list does not have a mid tier. Is there any particular reason you did that?

edit: Never mind the Sonic placement comment. Apparently I fail at reading comprehension. lol.