Official BBR Tier List v7

[Espy Rose]

What the ****? You responded to your own post and quoted it to say someone is good ?

Holy crap, this flew underneath the radar.

 

[| Big D |]

What the ****? You responded to your own post and quoted it to say someone is good ?

The Cg with on is just 3dthrow>Pummel/Fthrow>More Dthrow's till about 110 and then nothing because shine prevents Usmash/Utilt and no can consistently do the footstool QAC (NEVER seen it done in tourney vs a . Esam has never done it and he showcased it, but I think K Prime invented it).

Captain L does it all the time, from dthrow or just regular up airs.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Joe, you going to apex?

We can have our typical white person picture there.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Too bad everybody thats not esam/k prime/pikax2 sucks.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Joe, you going to apex?

We can have our typical white person picture there.

Yeeee.

Captain L does it all the time, from dthrow or just regular up airs.

To what ? -H-?

Holy crap, this flew underneath the radar.

Yeah. Too funny.

 

[bubbaking]

What the ****? You responded to your own post and quoted it to say someone is good ?

You didn't look at the context of the post at all! I was replying to YOU when you said that all Lucarios had quit or were inactive. I simply said that John12346 was still pretty active but his results weren't that good. I then expanded upon that statement, and corrected it in part, by quoting it and then showing recent results that were notable. I was clarifying my response to YOU!

I have a feeling that Da KID understood what I was saying because of his comment about how the only PT that matters is Reflex as a response to my listing John's victories over Coontail as notable wins. How did you miss it?

Tl;dr - Look at the context of the post. Don't just skim over it and then make fun of the poster without being educated about the post's background.

 

[Myollnir]

Does CoonTail still play? I haven't seen him there in a while.

 

[bubbaking]

He was at all the Impacts I attended and I believe he's come up to Stony Brook a couple times to play with us. Still pretty active as far as I can tell...

Edit: But Raptor could probably answer that question better than I can. After all, they work together.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Just KID when you refer to me please.

Tho I appreciate you taking note of the all caps.

 

[bubbaking]

OK, sure.

@Myollnir: Coontail was also at Impact IV, the one that I missed, so I'm gonna roll with somewhat active...

 

[Life]

The Cg with on is just 3dthrow>Pummel/Fthrow>More Dthrow's till about 110 and then nothing because shine prevents Usmash/Utilt

Random question about this. Is it just the shine invincibility that causes this or does its hitbox hit Pika? Because this sounds like a classic mixup situation (granted, still not a combo, but there you go) where Pika just charges the usmash to wait out the invincibility, unless the shine hitbox would hit Pika, in which case Pika can read it with shieldgrab to another dthrow until Wolf jumps instead. (Does jump get Wolf away fast enough to avoid usmash?)

Am I making any sense here? This has absolutely nothing to do with me, I don't play either character, I'm just curious.

 

[bubbaking]

You're basically asking: Is Pika close enough that he would be hit with the actual shine or is he far enough away, yet close enough, that he can usmash Wolf after the shine's invincibility without being hit by the shine itself?

 

[| Big D |]

I think you can buffer a jump shine to be free from all follow ups.

 

[_Kain_]

Shine hits if they mess up the CG or try to Upsmash if Wolf is over the % of the CG working. If they stop before they go over the CG % they get a guaranteed Upsmash or Nair out of the CG, which I'm pretty sure is what most competent Pikachu's do

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I think Snake's days in the top two are over

 

[Ishiey]

I thought they just got guaranteed nair out of the CG and no usmash?

 

[KRDsonic]

Pikachus I've played always did Nair instead of Usmash, never really knew why.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I think Snake's days in the top two are over

Pretty sure those days ended like, way back when Diddy passed Snake... lol

 

[bubbaking]

Pretty sure those days ended when people figured out that other characters could fight MK better than Snake could...

Edit: I.e. whenever Ally's Snake started losing to M2K more than he won.

Pikachus I've played always did Nair instead of Usmash, never really knew why.

Maybe so they could save usmash as a killing move? Idk if Pika can straight up kill anyone out of a CG unless the ceiling is really low...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I meant him getting back the spot. I think that he is going to hold the record for the longest time as second best, though

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The reason you Nair instead of Usmash is because it puts you in a better position to follow up.

Nair gives horizontal momentum, so you have less safe, unpredictable landing options after being hit with it (Going against the momentum makes your landing predictable, going with it puts you closer to the edge/off-stage).

Snake should be third after MK and ICs.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

It should be MK, ICs, Olimar, Diddy then Snake

 

[da K.I.D.]

Pikachus I've played always did Nair instead of Usmash, never really knew why.

The reason you Nair instead of Usmash is because it puts you in a better position to follow up.

Nair gives horizontal momentum, so you have less safe, unpredictable landing options after being hit with it (Going against the momentum makes your landing predictable, going with it puts you closer to the edge/off-stage).

Snake should be third after MK and ICs.

basically this. follow ups are better off of nair, because all the space animals wont die from the up smash and can shine the follow up thunder, and fox and falco have poor horizontal movement which means its harder for them to recover from the nair that puts them offstage. ddd will probably get up smashed because hes the easiest character in the game to hit with the follow up thunder.


can I be a part of pikas matchup discussion or something. I feel like I know way too much about this character.

 

[bubbaking]

Snake is overrated. It should be MK, ICs, Oli, Diddy, Marth, Snake, Pika, Falco, in my opinion. Wario shouldn't even be there, but that's another argument.

Edit: I could see Diddy and Marth being interchangeable actually. Same goes for Snake, Pika and Falco.

 

[C.J.]

No bubba. Just no. There's no possible way that Diddy and Marth are interchangeable under any circumstances. Likewise, Falco is definitely not worse than Pikachu. Snake is also definitely better than Marth. You MIGHT be able to argue that Marth, Falco, and pika are interchangeable-maybe. Realistically though snake/Diddy> Falco> Marth> pika

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Snake has an overall better MU spread than Marth does and he also has better tournament results.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't think Marth has worse MUs than Snake but I do agree that Snake has better results

 

[C.J.]

Marth has a numerically better MU spread but snake had a MU spread that he will win more consistently over time

 

[bubbaking]

Falco gets wrecked by Pika and ICs, and I honestly think he gets messed up pretty badly by Marth as well. Imho, his MU against DDD is probably only a +1 (several notable DDDs have backed that up), and with that, he has NO +2 MUs in any MU higher than the lower end of the Mid Tier spectrum.

On the other hand, Pika has several +2's and +3's in the Top, High, and BL tiers. Let's also not forget that the MU chart says that Pika goes even with MK. I don't care what you say; the BBR somehow caused that to happen. Also, I very specifically remember both M2K (in a post) and ESAM (on stream) stating that the MU is even. Pika's numerical MU spread is only 1 worse than Falco's but that's only because Falco has two +4's against Hyrule chars that don't even matter. So eliminating the useless Low Tier, Pika actually has a better MU spread than Falco.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

ESAM no longer believes that and M2K is biased. Seeing the Japanese Snakes makes me believe he is top 3.

 

[bubbaking]

The Japanese make Fox look like he's Top Tier at times...

According to our MU chart, Snake loses to practically all of Top Tier. If it wasn't for results counteracting what theory says about him on paper, I'd say that he should actually be at the bottom of Top. I don't see how one can say that Snake will win more consistently over time than Marth when he has pretty much no winning MUs in Top at all (and he has a hard time against DDD).

 

[Shaya]

Snake is a character that truly abuses the physical aspects of a player's regiment.
Reaction speed, execution and patience is required to really be on point just to beat Snake's massive ****ing list of bull ****.

Ditto to Falco, ditto to good MKs (tl;dr dash attack/froll/ftilt is all an mk needs to win).
Then you get characters like Marth, Olimar, Diddy who force zones on their enemies and have crazy good consistent punishing options that not even MK/Snake/Falco have.

 

[da K.I.D.]

According to our MU chart, Snake loses to practically all of Top Tier. If it wasn't for results counteracting what theory says about him on paper, I'd say that he should actually be at the bottom of Top. I don't see how one can say that Snake will win more consistently over time than Marth when he has pretty much no winning MUs in Top at all (and he has a hard time against DDD).

So youre going to completely disregard whats actually happening in real life because of an outdate matchup list just because it agrees with the preconceptions you have about the characters already even though you know its out dated and will most likely be changed in the near future?

Ware dey do dat at?

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah ESAM believed it was even until he fought Anti at SKTAR.
Right after the set ESAM got on the mic and was like "Yeah Pikachu vs MK is definitely -1, I just kept trying to get in and Anti was just like 'nope, Meta Knight'"

Also...wut about the posts about the Japanese
Isn't there only 1 good Fox in Japan? (Yui)
And the japanese Snakes are nowhere near as good as Ally's Snake (or at least, I don't think so. To me Ally seems like the best Snake in the world by far)

If watching any particular Snake main made you think Snake was top 3 in the game, that Snake should be Ally's XD

 

[da K.I.D.]

i dont know there are a few impressive snakes around. *****s out here forgetting Fatal like he doesnt win 70% of the tournaments he goes to still.

 

[Seagull Joe]

You didn't look at the context of the post at all! I was replying to YOU when you said that all Lucarios had quit or were inactive. I simply said that John12346 was still pretty active but his results weren't that good. I then expanded upon that statement, and corrected it in part, by quoting it and then showing recent results that were notable. I was clarifying my response to YOU!

I have a feeling that Da KID understood what I was saying because of his comment about how the only PT that matters is Reflex as a response to my listing John's victories over Coontail as notable wins. How did you miss it?

Tl;dr - Look at the context of the post. Don't just skim over it and then make fun of the poster without being educated about the post's background.

I missed nothing. You just posted a conversation to yourself, which I thought was really dumb.

Coontail isn't a good win. Minty hasn't been relevant since 2010? Ninjalink hasn't been relevant since 2009?

Junebug and Trela have national level wins. Even going by those 3 wins John#'s has they aren't even regional wins. They're more local then anything.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I want to like every post by CJ

 

[da K.I.D.]

dont get it twisted, ninjalink is still good.

also I appreciate the properness of name when refering to me but you can just call me KID. just make sure its all caps.

 

[infiniteV115]

If we're talking about his Diddy then no I don't think Ninjalink is still good

 

[da K.I.D.]

you and your new jack nonsense.