Official BBR Tier List v7

[Eddie G]

I know Kain is certainly capable of either. By the way...do you namesearch Wolf? Just curious, lol.

 

[Orion*]

No, it's just not like +2 or +3

+1 marths advantage is what i thought anyway xD

bubba I see you posting in all these important threads and you just seems as though you aren't knowledgeable at all...

I like his tier list

Make you feel like a big man?

LMAO
to much watching **** to take this seriously

I know Dr. G beat shadows mk a while ago who Will lost to. Dr. G placed higher than Will in a couple of tourneys when they both attended. Outside of Mikehaze I'm not sure of Ook's notable wins.

One win on a good player does not magically make someone a top player, because that implies they have a top players level of consistency. When I wasn't a top player I managed sometimes on my best days to take sets from players like atomsk, or shadow and games from players like ADHD. but that didn't mean I was top, because to be straight to the fact it wasnt consistent.

Dr.G is a decent player with potential. But if you by any shred of chance think that he's going to consistently, or even inconsistently take names from players like M2K, Dehf, ADHD, Gnes, Dabuz, Vinnie, whatever. You are flat out wrong.

Who knows though... hopefully I'm wrong and he beats dabuz

 

[Damix91]

No one needs to counterpick Samus.

It's a theoretical possibility based on people's personal view of matchups. It might be relevant to a bowser/ jiggs main. Shielda is pretty theoretical too as there's basically no point in switching to zelda.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I know Kain is certainly capable of either. By the way...do you namesearch Wolf? Just curious, lol.

Nah. I've just been reading through this thread. If Kain gets top 10 at a national then I'd be proud to use this character.

 

[Player-1]

Mc Pe can do it :3

 

[_GrapE_]

IMO: Zelda's tier placement is wrong and also matchups. Both should be much better than they are, but they don't deserve to be until better people start to use her.

I'm prepared for all the sadistic Zelda players to come out of the woodwork and throw their razors at me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Just thought of one counter I can't argue against, samus+zss in tourney isn't as common as people using both sheik and zelda, so I guess only tier list things that are actually seen, though I feel it should be anything that can be seen.

God, then let's bump Sonic up. His item game is soooooooooo good. Especially his final smash!!!!1!1 xDxdXDXDXDxD

 

[Tacket]

item game

Yeah, Sonic's pretty good with stolen bananas, Samus armor, and TL bombs.

HAcoreRD

 

[Fuujin]

IMO: Zelda's tier placement is wrong and also matchups. Both should be much better than they are, but they don't deserve to be until better people start to use her.

I'm prepared for all the sadistic Zelda players to come out of the woodwork and throw their razors at me.

I'm always down for a good laugh.

Please do elaborate.

 

[IceArrow]

Awesome tier list.

I knew Olimar/ICs/Pit would raise a few spots.

 

[Lukingordex]

Why Zelda is not better than Link?

'_'

 

[Jimmyfosho]

because Link is better than her?

 

[TreK]

I actually wanted to do things like this haha. If you ever go through with it, let me know how it turns out, I'm interested in seeing the differences.

Basically, I only bothered writing this because of you, so here you are :D
-> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=321854

 

[infiniteV115]

because Link is better than her?

dat rocket science

 

[Lukingordex]

because Link is better than her?

Thanks.

At least you answered me...

 

[Conviction]

Just saying anything that involves Fox over Wolf Auspher is against. Just putting it out there XD

 

[X-FACTOR]

IC's are that good!?

 

[infiniteV115]

Pretty sure most people are of the opinion that ICs are even better than that. imo they are second...MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE even first but...yeah meganite

 

[DeLux]

ICs are too high imo

 

[Sinister Slush]

That's actually where I'd see ICs.
If not, maybe below Snake at most.

 

[Spelt]

We are trying something new and using a formula. Most of us also aren't in favor of Olimar being second, but the way results were factored in, that's what happened. Since we already determined the weighting for each category before getting the data, we couldn't just change it because we didn't agree with how it turned out in practice, I hope you can understand that much. I'm not a fan of the way results were factored in either, and am in favor of removing their impact on the next tier list.

If you open up the excel file, you'll see the entire reason Olimar is 2nd is because of results. So, yeah, we didn't intentionally vote for it to be this way, calm down.

If the majority of you don't agree with it, why did you publish it?

Are you telling me you guys willingly posted an official tier list that most of you believe to be inaccurate because you were ... already too far along in the process?

That is worse than actually believing Olimar is second best.

You can't tell me that I am overreacting when you will willingly admit that the tier list and how you went about formulating it was entirely wrong and you have no intention of using it again in the future. You are being too calm.

 

[sheikamaru]

sheik take over leggo

subbed

 

[Espy Rose]

We went through with publishing it because a majority of us don't have the authority to stop or change the process whatsoever once it gets going.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Sounds to me like you need reform less than formula.

 

[BioDG]

But switching to ZSS is one of Samus options, so Samus should be as good as ZSS as switching ALWAYS is possible, and Samus may be better in some match ups or idk, but she cant be worse.

See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4btCQQcRhw

quiKsilver used samus as a "mindgame pick" on game three.

That was actually a neat idea. I guess off of technicality...it ought to be considered, even if nobody ever does it. Unfortunately that won't happen, though, until players prove it to be viable. Otherwise, US players would find it pointless to see Samus higher than normal.

Which reminds me: I think Olimar is too high. I feel like much of the community hasn't "figured him out" completely yet...so I predict he will go down next time.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That was actually a neat idea. I guess off of technicality...it ought to be considered, even if nobody ever does it. Unfortunately that won't happen, though, until players prove it to be viable. Otherwise, US players would find it pointless to see Samus higher than normal.

Are there any good ZSS players in the US that can use Samus and vice versa? One reason quiKsilver can use this tactic is because he can play both characters. Without that he couldn't pull it off.

 

[| Big D |]

I remember when Dedede/G&W used to be third on this list.

How times have changed.

 

[Lukingordex]

Wolf is going up...

He advanced 6 positions on the last tier list and 2 now...

 

[Ishiey]

You probably dont understand what I mean...
When you say that Zelda and Sheik shouldnt count as there own but ONLY as sheilda, as its the same as Diddy without Naners, you should have transform to ZSS in mind, when judging Samus. Otherwise thats inconsistent.

I suppose that makes sense, for consistency. But it's really about the difference in viability between the two tactics, as well as ZSS/Samus only being one way (which I guess further hinders viability). There's next to no showing for ZSS/Samus being a more viable combo than ZSS alone, and Samus doesn't even have a better MU than ZSS with any character :/

The Advantage in going Samus>ZSS is that on an opponen's counterpick, he has to consider the possibility of 2 characters instead of 1. He may want to pick 1 character to counterpick Samus and a different to counter ZSS.

No one needs to counterpick Samus.

This.

Jk lol. I can kinda see the argument, but as I said above, it's... not really going to help out in any way, based off of the data we have if we assume it to be true (so basically, only use as a potential "mindgame" factor, which shouldn't be counted into a tier list).

Basically, I only bothered writing this because of you, so here you are :D
-> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=321854

Why thank you haha, I feel honored :D already posted in there, so... yep

If the majority of you don't agree with it, why did you publish it?

Are you telling me you guys willingly posted an official tier list that most of you believe to be inaccurate because you were ... already too far along in the process?

That is worse than actually believing Olimar is second best.

You can't tell me that I am overreacting when you will willingly admit that the tier list and how you went about formulating it was entirely wrong and you have no intention of using it again in the future. You are being too calm.

DISCLAIMER: all imo.

Because you can't agree on a method and then be like, "oh no I didn't get what I want, time to go about things differently". The flaw in my eyes was that we didn't have a set way of going about measuring "results" until after the weights were voted on.

We put out a tier list that differed from our personal views because of how we wanted to factor in data besides our opinions. The goal was to move away from a tier list formed solely by opinion and form a somewhat more objective approach. This list was our first attempt, and now that it's out we can judge the public's reaction to see what we should consider changing next time around.

I did not say that the tier list was wrong, I said I disagree with results being factored in / the way they were factored in, and would like to see things changed next time. Right and wrong is still up in the air, depends on your definition of a tier list and etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Just saying anything that involves Fox over Wolf Auspher is against. Just putting it out there XD

Your salt is giving me high cholesterol, here.

This isn't news.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Metagame threat~? I see~ I like the meaning of the tier list but I think the whole theorycraft and voting thing skews the results of it. I'm just one of those guys that think results should do the talking ya know? Actions speak louder then words and what not. In theory, theres plenty of ways to make fighting snake alot easier, yet the results show he's making the 2nd most money out of any character.

I think theorycraft should be cut out completely. MU's kinda speak for theorycraft anyways. There basically theorycraft backed up with experience, frame data, and results.

unfortunately, if we went by this, pikachu would have a +3 on snake and sonic would have a winning matchup with marth.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pikachu would have a +3 on snake and sonic would have a winning matchup with marth.

Ignoring the first few words (I deleted) this is a post I like

 

[phi1ny3]

On the subject of shielda/zeik, iirc the unofficial japanese tier list at one point had the duo, and then only had zelda for the sake of ranking for low tier events. Sheik was incorporated into the whole package in terms of viability among the duo, and not a stand-alone character.

 

[Napos]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14178301#post14178301

Boss gets 1st at a tourney using Luigi and Mr.ConCon beat Dehf. Luigi drops 4 spots.. jk

For the Luigi mains or secondaries that are complaining about Luigi's placing. The reason why luigi pretty much dropped is because the only two luigi's that are actually a threat (Biglou and Boss) Don't enter with Luigi as much as they use to. As of recently the only few upcoming Luigi's that have been placing are YoshQ, Zhao, and Mr.Concon. But their placings aren't as great as Boss' and Biglou's placings/wins in the past.

So if you Luigi mains want to improve Luigi's placing just play better with him, implement mindgames into your playstyle, learn mus and learn to sweetspot Up b.

makes sense! time to put up or shut up!

 

[Bazooka Joe]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14178301#post14178301
So if you Luigi mains want to improve Luigi's placing just play better with him, implement mindgames into your playstyle, learn mus and learn to sweetspot Up b.

Placings are part of it, but it is an important part of it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

IMO: Zelda's tier placement is wrong and also matchups. Both should be much better than they are, but they don't deserve to be until better people start to use her.

I'm prepared for all the sadistic Zelda players to come out of the woodwork and throw their razors at me.

You're right, Zelda should be lower.

Also IC's are too high.

 

[bubbaking]

In other words, Zelda should be last?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Pretty much.

 

[bubbaking]

I agree, but whenever I make mention of anything even slightly alluding to that, I'm BLASTED for suggesting that Ganon should be anything other than last on the tier list.

 

[stingers]

no, ganon should be above zelda (and jiggs).