Official BBR Tier List v7

[KuroganeHammer]

Yeah, but opinions change. I bet if I suggested Snake was 5th on the tier list during v1, I would have been placed on many ignore lists and laughed at a lot.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

ganon should be above jiggs

Even though Jiggs has far fewer "unwinnable" match-ups (arguably none, at least on the same level as Ganon/ICs), does pretty good against most low tiers (compared to Ganon who flat-out loses -2 to some) and has passable match-ups against some top tiers?

nahhhh

 

[Alacion]

Ganondorf should be above Zelda.

 

[bubbaking]

Tbh, I feel like Ganon's MU spread is really pessimistic. A lot of those values for the low tier MUs should probably be a little better for him. Yes, Ganon is bodied for free by ICs, but a lot of chars are destroyed by them. Using that MU against Ganon is almost like saying so-and-so gets beaten by MK. Also, Puff has a -4 against G&W. Now how does any character manage that? Besides, for the most part, I'm arguing that Ganon should be above Zelda. Jiggs is debatable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well for one, I don't think the MU vs. G&W is unwinnable. There are only like... 3 or 4 Puff players who actually main her, use her regularly in tourneys and have some level of success, so my opinion on the MU holds some weight even if the other 2/3 players disagree with me.

Even if the MU is unwinnable... Its G&W. They are pretty damn rare compared to Ice Climbers and I am extremely confident that I wouldn't lose to some random guy's random G&W. The MU just isn't that bad. On the other hand, my mediocre Ice Climbers which I spent all of a few weeks working on could probably tackle most Ganondorf players.

Ganon also loses 100-0 to Meta Knight and Olimar, doesn't he? That is pretty bad.

 

[bubbaking]

Well for one, I don't think the MU vs. G&W is unwinnable. There are only like... 3 or 4 Puff players who actually main her, use her regularly in tourneys and have some level of success, so my opinion on the MU holds some weight even if the other 2/3 players disagree with me.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=296541
If you what you say is true, then your opinion doesn't actually hold that much weight unless you're on this list......which you aren't.

Yes, Ganon supposedly has -4's against Oli and MK, but if Ganon vs MK is truly unwinnable, then how did Ally lose the Ganon Gauntlet?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I live in Australia, I can't be on that list bro. If I could, I would probably be 3rd or better. It is too hard to say from across the equator lol.

Is that match recorded? I like watching Ganon vs. MK.

There aren't any actual unwinnable match-ups in the game, Bowser/Ice Climbers comes closest in my opinion.

 

[GOofyGV]

not IC ganon?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Imo Ganon's -4 match-ups are: MK, Snake, Falco, IC, Pikachu, DDD and Olimar.
Some people would add Wario to that list because he has a CG but it's really weird when you factor in all the stuff that's part of the match-up [Wario getting walled, grab release + infinte versus CG & gimps] ... so I'd simply go by results and guesstimate it as a -2. Other people will disagree with Snake being -4 and I don't think there has ever been Ganon vs ZSS played in tourney <_<

Diddy, GW, ROB and Kirby I'd say are all -2 but closer to -1 than -3, whereas Marth is closer to -3. I'm also quite adamant about Ganon going even with the Mario brothers, at least even with Falcon and no worse than -1 against Ness, DK, Ike and Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Snake is certainly not -4.

Certainly.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Grim's Jigglypuff truly is terrifying.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Or so the legends say, Aero :3

Ganon vs. Ice Climbers is obviously in Ganon's favour.

 

[bubbaking]

Is that match recorded? I like watching Ganon vs. MK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPu-TlfcDhs

Imo Ganon's -4 match-ups are: MK, Snake, Falco, IC, Pikachu, DDD and Olimar.
Some people would add Wario to that list because he has a CG but it's really weird when you factor in all the stuff that's part of the match-up [Wario getting walled, grab release + infinte versus CG & gimps] ... so I'd simply go by results and guesstimate it as a -2. Other people will disagree with Snake being -4 and I don't think there has ever been Ganon vs ZSS played in tourney <_<

DDD vs Ganon is definitely not a -4 for Ganon. Neither is Pikachu. Pika has some really good MUs, but none that are +4 worthy. It seems to me that you are equivocating a CG on Ganon to an auto -4, but you know, CGs aren't all that make a MU. IMO, DDD only has +4's against chars that he can get an infinite and/or walking CG against. He also has guaranteed dthrow>dtilt combos on those chars, so basically he gives you as much damage as he pleases and then kills you for free afterwards. That is the kind of stuff that constitutes a +4 MU.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I agree with that whole post.

Spoiler

+1 post count

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Except DDD and Pikachu are 100% impossible for Ganon to win against.

 

[bubbaking]

Except DDD and Pikachu are 100% impossible for Ganon to win against.

May you please enlighten me as to how that is so?

Ganon vs. Ice Climbers is obviously in Ganon's favour.

Hey, are CG infinites banned in Japan? Kakera never did a single one. (O_o)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Kakera just played really awful lol

Oh, and don't take the bait.

 

[bubbaking]

I see. Is aerial wizkick really one of Ganon's only options at reliably poking and seperating the ICs?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's not even a reliable option to begin with lmao. Ganon's best option against IC is fthrow, not even kidding.

Ganon can't beat DDD cuz he dies if he's grabbed once.
Ganon can't beat Pikachu cuz he can't touch him.

 

[Dre89]

There's no way Ganon is better than Puff. Puff has mobility, can actually approach somewhat and most importantly can time out if it plays really anal.

 

[bubbaking]

How about Ganon and Zelda?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ganon could be better than Zelda.

 

[-LzR-]

Zelda doesn't really have anything going for her. She is slow and aside from a very hard to land lightning kick she can't make hard punishes. And if she touches your shield she is ****ed. Oh and she has like the worst recovery ever
Ganon > Zelda

 

[Rookk]

I think we're about to get a whole lot more Olimar players.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Zelda doesn't really have anything going for her. She is slow and aside from a very hard to land lightning kick she can't make hard punishes. And if she touches your shield she is ****ed. Oh and she has like the worst recovery ever
Ganon > Zelda

I think Zelda's recovery is worse than Ganon's tbh. She takes 33 frames before she disappears, and only has a hitbox during frame 11-12. lol.

Ganon at least has a grab through most of his, and then a powerful hitbox at the end. Zelda gets a 6% hit which lasts for 2 frames. THAT'll scare someone off the edge. >________>

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Trying to trade that move with Puff's down-smash would be an impressive feat.

2 frame hitbox vs. 1 frame hitbox

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Which move?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Zelda's up-b

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Uhh yeah. I don't follow brawl and I'm not very competitive with it but someone tell me why Snake dropped so damn low?

lalala OH nanana

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He didn't drop so much as people rose above him.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I see. I'm assuming the metagame for other characters has just been getting better? I would think that Snake is still a huge powerhouse from obvservation and playing with him.

lalala OH nanana

 

[Neon!]

WHAT! Zelda having a worse recovery than ganon? This is starting to get rediculous.

Dk beats ganon +2, one grab from us near the edge when ganon's above 70% is a guaranteed death. Cargo- walk offstage dthrow and then we can steal your second jump with the weak hits of our up-b. Dtilt on stage also recks ganon.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If Ganon is getting grabbed by DK near the ledge, he is doing something wrong, just saying.

 

[C.J.]

If Ganon has a worse recovery than Zelda, it's because you can jump into his upB and punish him for it once he grabs you.

 

[-LzR-]

For Zelda you don't even have to try, just go to the edge and if they somehow get past the ledge it will be 9000 meters above the stage so you can get a free hit back offstage and repeat. It's even harder to get stuff done than with Wolfs UpB.

 

[Lukingordex]

Zelda doesn't really have anything going for her. She is slow and aside from a very hard to land lightning kick she can't make hard punishes. And if she touches your shield she is ****ed. Oh and she has like the worst recovery ever
Ganon > Zelda

Don´t forget about Link,he has the worst recovery of the game.

Ganon > Zelda > Link

Spoiler

Just kindding,I know at least Link can spacing...

 

[Neon!]

If Ganon is getting grabbed by DK near the ledge, he is doing something wrong, just saying.

You have got to be kidding me, if I can grab olimar or marth near the ledge and gimp them this way I can DEFINITELY grab ganon and do the same.

Zelda has faster horizontal air movment, can stall slightly/block projectiles offstage with nayru's love and if she has good DI her recovery will at least get her on stage unlike ganon's. Zelda's recovery is bad, ganon's is worse.

 

[Lukingordex]

I agree with Zelda getting a better rating than Ganon.

And anyone can disagree that Jigglypuff is top of the bottom tier.

 

[KageMurphy]

Ganon players as a whole have more impressive feats then Zelda players as a whole, just going by even from Apex, Zelda should be first on her knees and last on the tier list.

 

[Neon!]

One win on a good player does not magically make someone a top player, because that implies they have a top players level of consistency. When I wasn't a top player I managed sometimes on my best days to take sets from players like atomsk, or shadow and games from players like ADHD. but that didn't mean I was top, because to be straight to the fact it wasnt consistent.

Dr.G is a decent player with potential. But if you by any shred of chance think that he's going to consistently, or even inconsistently take names from players like M2K, Dehf, ADHD, Gnes, Dabuz, Vinnie, whatever. You are flat out wrong.

Who knows though... hopefully I'm wrong and he beats dabuz

Did you read the rest of my post? Dr. G placed higher or nearly the same as Will did for a period of time. Both of them play DK, neither of them are going to consistently beat any of those players you mentioned. My point was that other DK's were at one point at Will's level meaning Will is not completely an outlier.