Official BBR Tier List v6

[vVv Rapture]

-dead after LzR's post-

 

[Doc King]

There is enough space on all four of those levels to avoid any possibility of getting grabbed there.

Only one of those stages is a neutral (and, for most characters against Dedede, it was already begging to get struck), and I would argue that Halberd is the only counterpick of those that Dedede particularly likes (maybe Brinstar, but, that's how you get counterpicked by G&W or someone similar). It will see -very- little use in competitive play as a result.

You're right about that Game and Watch thing on Brinstar. Although, I find Frigate and Yoshi's good or at least decent stages for D3. You can avoid infinites, but sometimes, it can be hard to do it and can cause a lot of pressure on them.

Sorry that does it, your arguments are no longer credible at all.

Why is it ppl trash wifi completely. I know wifi lags sometimes, but not all of the time. Also the dash dance pivot infinites are harder to pull off online than offline. Imagine what u can do with this offline.

People need to seriously calm down.

^ Yup.

 

[-LzR-]

I do play wifi and it's totally fine the way it is. Beating people on the wifi using slope infinites caused by RCO lag using buffered dashdances isn't the way to go if you are trying to prove a point.

 

[Doc King]

I do play wifi and it's totally fine the way it is. Beating people on the wifi using slope infinites caused by RCO lag using buffered dashdances isn't the way to go if you are trying to prove a point.

1) They aren't caused by RCO Lag.

2) Some of them don't have to be buffered.

 

[-LzR-]

Then why is that all you talk about when trying to prove King Dedede is underrated?

 

[Doc King]

Then why is that all you talk about when trying to prove King Dedede is underrated?

Because it seems (or seemed) like D3 was going downhill and there were a lot of you saying stuff like D3 sucks and stuff. I didn't want him to become mid tier, so I back it up by showing you guys what D3 can do. I also don't care about the other characters in Brawl.

 

[vVv Rapture]

D3 isn't automatically good because of very situational slope infinites.

His problems involved MK, getting slapped around by other high tiers, being big, being a penguin, etc. He still faces those problems minus MK.

 

[Chuee]

Doc King hush bro, I beat you on AiB with my ****ty falco.

 

[Conviction]

See me on that Wifi though son.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

side question

is it true that sheik has an infinite on wario?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Being a penguin,

That's not a problem; he can only benefit from that.

 

[Ussi]

side question

is it true that sheik has an infinite on wario?

If its like Ike's then I don't think its a big deal with the use of platforms (grab release infinite)

 

[Ripple]

yes, sheik has an infinte on wario but it involves grab release.

GR>footstool> FF weak bair reset

 

[-LzR-]

Is it easy to perform and not screwed up by SDI or stuff?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm fairly sure Doc King is embarrassing every D3 main on the site by this point in time.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Practically everyone has some infinite on Wario anyways

 

[TheReflexWonder]

yes, sheik has an infinte on wario but it involves grab release.

GR>footstool> FF weak bair reset

Is it really to KO percents? Brutal.

I don't see why SDI would affect it much, since Sheik has about a full second to position herself to get the next grab, though she can obviously do it until you SDI to the edge, which should be a good amount of damage.

 

[Steam]

Because it seems (or seemed) like D3 was going downhill and there were a lot of you saying stuff like D3 sucks and stuff. I didn't want him to become mid tier, so I back it up by showing you guys what D3 can do. I also don't care about the other characters in Brawl.

he's going downhill because he's a very basic and straightforward character with a small number of solid options... and these types of characters get worse over time because there isn't much to strategically advance their metagames over time (they get developed very quickly). just look at RoB, G&W, Kirby, etc.

on the other hand there are characters like sonic who are the total opposite. a hundred bad options. these types of characters metagames take longer to fully develop so they'll improve over time.

and honestly, D3 might DESERVE to be mid tier... but he never should be because he'd pretty much ruin mid tier tournies because he kinda ruins mid tier in general.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I said knock it off with the personal attacks, last warning.

 

[Ussi]

Is it really to KO percents? Brutal.

I don't see why SDI would affect it much, since Sheik has about a full second to position herself to get the next grab, though she can obviously do it until you SDI to the edge, which should be a good amount of damage.

platforms would null it too, so SDI under it so you release onto it

 

[Malayor]

I don't understand how the Hylians (except Gannondorf) can be ranked so low. Everyone I know (locally) has banned Zelda due to an excess in power while nobody has ever used Meta Knight or Diddy Kong because they hate them so much. And Zelda happens to be my best character. What gives?

 

[Ussi]

Your local scene probably rolls and approaches without thinking or just in the air always for Zelda to be banned.

Some locals hate Ike more though, I've made a local casual scene hate Ike profusely :\


Your best =/= game best


Oh Link has high usage just from sheer popularity but he still is bad due to how easy he gets gimped

 

[infiniteV115]

Dammit, ninja'd...

Funny...in the first tier list, Zelda was above ZSS XD

 

[Kinzer]

Practically everyone has some infinite on Wario anyways

Nope.

... ;_;

*Goes to cry in corner.*

 

[Tesh]

You'd think Sonic would also be able to GR-footstool-spring jab lock him tho...

But that would require uneven ground AND a lack of platforms.

 

[C.J.]

Also, wouldn't Wario have to make a jump input? Or is Sonic tall enough to guarantee an air release?

 

[Ussi]

uneven ground = Sonic holds Wario facing a downwards slope, Wario won't be touching the stage this way

 

[Malayor]

Your local scene probably rolls and approaches without thinking or just in the air always for Zelda to be banned.

Some locals hate Ike more though, I've made a local casual scene hate Ike profusely :\

Your best =/= game best

Oh Link has high usage just from sheer popularity but he still is bad due to how easy he gets gimped

You have a good point, hadn't thought of that before. Many of my locals to tend to try "air strikes" with characters like kirby or bowser (I can't understand why). Everyone else just runs in a mad rush, only one does not who just blindly rolls.

However, Djins Fire is not the only reason. It is also because of her smash attacks and final smash. Her smash attacks have so much power and knock-back that most of the fight is getting back to melee range, especially her up-smash. The light arrow I assume you can understand.

Questions:
who's ZSS?
and what's gimping?

 

[Ussi]

You have a good point, hadn't thought of that before. Many of my locals to tend to try "air strikes" with characters like kirby or bowser (I can't understand why). Everyone else just runs in a mad rush, only one does not who just blindly rolls.

However, Djins Fire is not the only reason. It is also because of her smash attacks and final smash. Her smash attacks have so much power and knock-back that most of the fight is getting back to melee range, especially her up-smash. The light arrow I assume you can understand.

And who's ZSS?

I never really mentioned any moves, Zelda's usmash is what stuffs air approaches very easily. Din's fire can be clanked by aerials that are not transcendent (Basically not Ike and MK) thereby negating din's fire.

Approaching Zelda is asking to lose, you gotta make her come to you, which she is terrible at doing. Din's fire can't force you to come over it if you keep clanking it, and you can punish it too if you stay in a good zone (like mid distance away that can punish din's fire on clank/avoid)

ZSS = Zero Suit Samus (hold R/L when picking Samus at the menu before pressing start)

Gimping is the term for killing a character by preventing him from recovering successfully. Link is pretty mid-heavy so he can live at high% in theory, but his recovery is so bad that he gets gimped at lower %s usually.

 

[Kinzer]

Also, wouldn't Wario have to make a jump input? Or is Sonic tall enough to guarantee an air release?

Yes.

No.

uneven ground = Sonic holds Wario facing a downwards slope, Wario won't be touching the stage this way

Do you realize how difficult it is to meet this criteria?

It's not something you can rely on and for what it's worth you may as well say Sonic can't do much about it.

 

[Malayor]

My apologies,
there are a few terms that I am not familiar with:
-clanked
-most of the abbreviated character names (unrelated)
-and something like "shield poke" that I read somewhere

 

[John12346]

Clanked = Two moves that do damage within 10% hit each other and cancel each other out.
- If you perform a strong enough attack at the moment Din's Fire explodes, you won't get hit. In this way, most characters can stay away from Zelda by just randomly throwing out attacks in the air, far away from her, making her camp game pretty bad.

Shield Poke = When someone hits you even though your shield is up, usually because it shrank so much it left some of your character's body vulnerable.
MK = Meta Knight
ZSS = Zero Suit Samus

Also, this is unrelated, but Tier Lists don't take Final Smashes into account, since items are banned in tournament play. Real talk, if Zelda had access to her Light Arrow, she'd probably go up a bit.

 

[Malayor]

That would make sense. In locals we just leave the smash ball on to spice it up with visuals...

 

[John12346]

That is true; Brawl does lose a lot of its cinematic effect when all of the items are turned off, unfortunately...

 

[Malayor]

There's one other thing I noticed. Why is it that Zelda appears in three different forms on the tier list? (Zelda, Shiek, and Shielda)
Same for the others with multiple forms.

 

[C.J.]

There's one other thing I noticed. Why is it that Zelda appears in three different forms on the tier list? (Zelda, Shiek, and Shielda)
Same for the others with multiple forms.

One is if you use Zelda, and only Zelda (How good is SOLO Zelda?). Another is if you use Sheik, and only Sheik (How good is SOLO Sheik?). The last one is if you use both of them as optimally as possible (How good are Sheik and Zelda when used together as efficiently as possible; e.g. using Zelda vs Pikachu early in the match so you can't get CGed to death and then switching to Sheik at mid-high %s)

Also, this is unrelated, but Tier Lists don't take Final Smashes into account, since items are banned in tournament play. Real talk, if Zelda had access to her Light Arrow, she'd probably go up a bit.

Nope, she'd have to be mobile enough to get the smashball first.

 

[Malayor]

Nope, she'd have to be mobile enough to get the smashball first.

Zelda can very easily break the ball with Dins fire. After a single melee (assuming that doesn't break it) hit I normally only need one blast and the melee doesn't need to be Zelda's.

 

[John12346]

Yeah, Zelda doesn't have a lot of trouble grabbing a Smash Ball; Din's Fire is BEASTLY in that one regard.

Plus, a well placed Lightning Kick or Uair can also break it really freakin' quickly...

Zelda would definitely be going places with Smash Ball legal, for sure.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Too bad that isnt probably ever going to happen in competitive play :/

 

[infiniteV115]

Perhaps we should un-ban MK and legalize Smash Ball