Official BBR Tier List v6

[Nike.]

Zex has consistently been #1 in NorCal for 2 years now. He's won 58365365654 tournies, but there only posted on aib.
His Marth is not scrub. It's on par with Neo/Kadaj/Pierce, if not better.
However, he does co-main mk.

 

[Reizilla]

Did you just imply that Tyrant wasn't one of the best MKs in the country? Zex used Marth to beat SK92. He also, I'm sure originally planned to go Marth v MK on FD, but Ally switched to ICs, so he figured he'd take the slightly less impossible matchup. Word is that he also won a game off Esam with Marth. Tearbear is also more than worthy of being labeled a top MK.

 

[Judo777]

Keep in mind those are the two BEST Diddies in the top 8, while 3 of the MK users in the top 8 aren't even the best MKs in the country

Also yeah let's put in more and more surgical rules to make MK a worse character!

More importantly those are the ONLY 2 diddies in the nation doing anything.

 

[John12346]

Anti, Seibrik, Lain, HolyNightmare, Dojo, Atomsk, RedHalberd, kismet all come to mind

Tyrant's really good tho.

Look, the main point I'm trying to make is that these Nationals' top placements are always drowning in MK. Does no one see this as a problem...?

 

[Reizilla]

Anti's the only one of those that could make a case for being better. The rest are somewhere between definitely worse to about on-par.

And no, not really. Looks fine to me.

 

[Chuee]

Anti, Seibrik, Lain, HolyNightmare, Dojo, Atomsk, RedHalberd, kismet all come to mind

Tyrant's really good tho.

Look, the main point I'm trying to make is that these Nationals' top placements are always drowning in MK. Does no one see this as a problem...?

What are you trying to say in the first line.
If you were saying those are the top MKs in the nation then Im going to laugh.
and yes Im fine with MK taking top spots consistently.

 

[Tesh]

Those results aren't really surprising. You have the top MKs, then the top Diddies. Whats shocking is that the top Snakes/Olis didn't wind up above the 2nd rate MKs.

 

[C.J.]

Anti, Seibrik, Lain, HolyNightmare, Dojo, Atomsk, RedHalberd, kismet all come to mind

Tyrant's really good tho.

Look, the main point I'm trying to make is that these Nationals' top placements are always drowning in MK. Does no one see this as a problem...?

The only MK, other than M2K, that is better than Tyrant, is Anti. Dojo would if he never quit (probably). Halberd is really good, but not better than Tyrant, and probably not atomsk. Btw, you forgot Nairo.
M2K, Anti, Tyrant, Ally/Nairo, Atomsk/RedHalberd, Seibrik/Havok, Terry, the rest
imo (disclaimer: That's just on how good their MKs are. How smart they are [coughallycough] isn't considered)

/off topic

 

[John12346]

Uh, ignore the "while 3 of the MK users in the top 8 aren't even the best MKs in the country" point I was trying to make. I was rushing and didn't have time to read it over for consistency. Although, for fairness sake, we can change that 3 into a 2 and it magically holds true.

And I'm not trying to say that these results aren't surprising... hell, I was expecting MK to take like 7 of the 8 spots, lol. I'm asking whether or not anyone but me sees the results as problematic, not surprising.

 

[Tesh]

Ally is easily the 2nd best MK. He is just getting started and already looks better than the rest. Once he starts playing as gay as M2K, it will be clear to everyone.

 

[Luigi player]

They aren't problematic.

If Ally+M2K weren't at genesis2 Diddys might've taken the top 2. Is that problematic then?
If MK is gone then people will pick the next best character there is. Diddy/Snake would be there. MK has the most results, because more (good) people play them. If you ban him, then most people will pick up Diddy/Snake, because they will be the best chars then. Maybe there would be more good Snakes than Diddys then. It would mean that Snakes will have 6/8 spots next time. With Diddys/Olimars/maybe Falcos somewhere around them.
It all depends on who people pick. And most (good) people will choose the best character. It's just natural, because they want to win. And that means most of those will then still take the top spots with their new character(s). It might not be as "bad" as with MK, but if you really whine about MK all day then you would probably do the same for the next one...

 

[hichez50]

If MK was gone then DDD will rise up the ranks. DDD had to go in a hole because MK large presence.

 

[John12346]

There's no chance of complaints of other characters ever happening. The dedicated mains for the other great characters in the game do not ever completely dominate a match against another high-ish level players, ever. Especially not to the extent that MK does.

Also, slippery slope has already been disproven multiple times in MK's case

Protip: Aside from MK, everyone has counters

 

[Shaya]

I honestly worry that Diddy does not have counters.

 

[Reizilla]

That's because he doesn't.

 

[Dabuz]

im starting to debate that olimar counters diddy and falco does as well IMO

 

[Shaya]

I think Falco has a lot of room to say that he doesn't lose to Diddy. Potentially beats.

I always thought Diddy beat Olimar? Thought I heard that mu was bad for him. I guess I was wrong? lol

Like:
Snake, Falco, Wario seem to have legit 'reasons' for believing their character may win. That's a lot better than MK, but I wouldn't say any of them are counters, and they may not even be worse than even.

 

[Chuee]

Protip: Aside from MK, everyone has counters

If by counter, you mean they lose MUs.
and MK doesn't dominate high level matches except against characters he destroys.

 

[Tesh]

Diddy definitely has stage counters and without MK having a choke hold on the start list, thats probably enough.

 

[Kantrip]

Diddy also goes even with random mid and low tiers. Arguably Sheik, Luigi, and Mario.

 

[Shaya]

Diddy also goes even with random mid and low tiers. Arguably Sheik, Luigi, and Mario.

HE MAY go even with random mid and low tiers.
MAY.

However,
I currently doubt it.

 

[Ripple]

can't forget peach does really well against him too

 

[Kantrip]

The thing with the Diddy matchup for any character is knowing how to deal with bananas. If Diddy became number one, I'm sure people would strive to improve their banana game. Diddy gets camped hard against people who take control of both nanners and set up their own wall.

 

[Ripple]

someone like ganon

 

[Chuee]

can't forget peach does really well against him too

not as good as people seem to think.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

someone like ganon

Does that flame choke to banana to whatever make it remotely any better?

 

[Kantrip]

Alright, let me rephrase that: Diddy gets camped hard by characters with something that beats peanuts when they take his bananas.

 

[Judo777]

Here is the big issue I have. You get your consistent like top 3 placers like Ally, M2K, ADHD, and what not. Then the next 5 are a coin toss between very very talented players like DEHF, Rich, Mike, Gnes, Razer,and more, and your swarm of consistent and non consistent MK's like Tear Bear, Anti, Tyrant, Seibrik, Atomske, Zex, Shadow, Shugo, Nairo, Domo, Judge, Lee Martin, Red Halberd, Ksizzle, insert other MK player.

Like I feel like the pool of people in the top 8 of nationals would be consistent except every now and then you have 2 or 3 MK's from the pool that don't usually place that high.

Ally, M2K, ADHD SHOULD be placing top 8 almost every tournament IMO (along with Rich, and DEHF bias) but every now and then with the exception of M2K and Ally some other MK's pop up in the list.

 

[Tesh]

If you take Diddy Kong's bananas, then the only option you really have is.....banana and fsmash. If you throw the banana, guess what? You don't have it anymore.

Also the junk ganondorf has on him is cool, but it doesn't make the matchup against a high level diddy much better. As if Diddy would let you flame choke him while holding a banana or at all. Get this, Ganondorf has BRUTAL guaranteed options out of flame choke on Olimar and its still one of his hardest matchups. 2-3 flame chokes= a stock and its still horrible for him.

 

[NO-IDea]

Pretty soon someone is going to post in this thread, about how skilled those MK players are and how the character coincidentally attracts the best players. Then maybe PierceD will tell us about how we should all be footstooling the tip of shuttle loop. Then someone will say we should remove a bunch of stages from the CP list and the conversation will go in a nice little circle again.

At least this time ESAM can't chime in with MKs even matchups.

However annoying it is to read this dude's posts, I may say that this particular one was HILARIOUSLY TRUE.

But I'm anti-ban. I don't see a problem with the results. Not to mention I think a lot of people aren't consistently using their character's tools against MK's nado to the point nado breaks the MU for them.

 

[Judo777]

If you take Diddy Kong's bananas, then the only option you really have is.....banana and fsmash. If you throw the banana, guess what? You don't have it anymore.

Also the junk ganondorf has on him is cool, but it doesn't make the matchup against a high level diddy much better. As if Diddy would let you flame choke him while holding a banana or at all. Get this, Ganondorf has BRUTAL guaranteed options out of flame choke on Olimar and its still one of his hardest matchups. 2-3 flame chokes= a stock and its still horrible for him.

Ganons options on olimar are like the same as most characters.........

 

[Luigi player]

ADHD beat DEHF 3:0 and Gnes beat Rains Falco too.
Although Atomsks and Allys Falco are kinda good vs them.

I don't think Falco beats Diddy though.

I think Falco has a lot of room to say that he doesn't lose to Diddy. Potentially beats.

I always thought Diddy beat Olimar? Thought I heard that mu was bad for him. I guess I was wrong? lol

Like:
Snake, Falco, Wario seem to have legit 'reasons' for believing their character may win. That's a lot better than MK, but I wouldn't say any of them are counters, and they may not even be worse than even.

lol Diddy vs Olimar is really stupid. Not sure what to think about the MU atm. Don't forget that ADHD beat Brood at local GFs shortly after Apex and Gnes beat Rich Brown.
ADHD lost to dabuz.. well I personally hate the MU and I'm glad I haven't had to face good Olimars (pretty rare in EU, we have like Greward but he was slacking at ngamers... so idk).
I wouldn't come to conclusions about the MU right now and wait for more results to see how it goes.

Oh and Diddy ***** Snake.

 

[Ussi]

Ganons options on olimar are like the same as most characters.........

False, Olimar has the worst flopping on the ground (16 frames long or advantage for Ganon, forget which) which no other character flops as long. (or maybe its his size making him hit the ground later?)

Either way, Ganon has a lot of options after choking Olimar.

 

[M@v]

Here is the big issue I have. You get your consistent like top 3 placers like Ally, M2K, ADHD, and what not. Then the next 5 are a coin toss between very very talented players like DEHF, Rich, Mike, Gnes, Razer,and more, and your swarm of consistent and non consistent MK's like Tear Bear, Anti, Tyrant, Seibrik, Atomske, Zex, Shadow, Shugo, Nairo, Domo, Judge, Lee Martin, Red Halberd, Ksizzle, insert other MK player.

Like I feel like the pool of people in the top 8 of nationals would be consistent except every now and then you have 2 or 3 MK's from the pool that don't usually place that high.

Ally, M2K, ADHD SHOULD be placing top 8 almost every tournament IMO (along with Rich, and DEHF bias) but every now and then with the exception of M2K and Ally some other MK's pop up in the list.

Just pointing out shugo plays mostly falco. Nitpicking I know but just an FYI.

 

[Kantrip]

If you take Diddy Kong's bananas, then the only option you really have is.....banana and fsmash. If you throw the banana, guess what? You don't have it anymore.

Now tell me how this differs from Diddy's options when he controls his own bananas.

 

[Ripple]

ganon can f-tilt an olimar after flame choke. which kills olimar at like 60-70% because of the angle

 

[Judo777]

False, Olimar has the worst flopping on the ground (16 frames long or advantage for Ganon, forget which) which no other character flops as long. (or maybe its his size making him hit the ground later?)

Either way, Ganon has a lot of options after choking Olimar.

Yes I know this..... Now how many additional options does he get on olimar? the answer? 1 dsmash. Which is a very bad option since you don't even have to DI to avoid the second hit someone.....................

 

[Ripple]

Yes I know this..... Now how many additional options does he get on olimar? the answer? 1 dsmash. Which is a very bad option since you don't even have to DI to avoid the second hit someone.....................

read my post judo

 

[Ussi]

Considering some options don't work cause some characters are too flat on the ground. I believe all work on Olimar

 

[Judo777]

read my post judo

yes and he can ftilt like 15 other characters.............................. its not olimar special.