Official BBR Tier List v5

[Dark.Pch]

Yea and I stand by it. Whats your point? I never said people cant get in or etc. I lose for a reason along with everyone else. Last time. Pay attention to what one is telling you.

 

[Lenus Altair]

You don't even know where I think Peach should be on their list.

Where do you think Peach should be on the Tier List?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Where do you think Peach should be on the Tier List?

I think she should be above fox. (waits for it.......)

And thats as high on the tier list she should ever go.

 

[Steam]

I think she should be above fox. (waits for it.......)

And thats as high on the tier list she should ever go.

so her matchups are way too good for the tier standing even you give her... wut

I'm just saying that whenever you state something you don't keep it subjective and make it much more of an absolute... like those other kill setups you posted.... those are mad unreliable but the way you state them makes it seem like you'll be landing them commonly :/

and seriously... there are some characters peach just won't be able to keep out well at all without her fair.... plenty of moves outspace her other options. she can't just throw turnips at them and expect to keep them out... most of the time they can be caught or thrown back on reaction...

 

[Lenus Altair]

I think she should be above fox. (waits for it.......)

Honestly I can see that.

 

[Ripple]

I could see it, if peaches starting playing more intelligently.

right now, they're all dumb

 

[da K.I.D.]

And this comes back to the basic mindset of people and characters I was talking about before. Peach does not need to be in the air all the time. Idk why People think she has too. Really when I can bring it to the ground with ground floating. Really against sonic. I can Ground float Nairs to beat nearly your whole move set.

Also, name me a situation where I have to use fair.

1. I was only refering to the sonic matchup when i spoke of the always in the air thing. im not saying peach has to be in the air all the time ever, but from what I can tell, her best place to be JUST IN THE MATCHUP AGAINST SONIC, is right above his head. because that makes it very hard for me to attack you.
2. I think ground floating is great in certain matchups, but i think its really bad in the sonic matchup. it puts you in a position that makes it possible to hit you with regular spindash, and dash attack. both are hard to react to because of his speed, and floating higher completely eliminates my dash attack option and mostly ***** my spindash option because even if I jump to try and hit you with it, it gives you enough time to put out a dair or nair b4 i get to you, which is bad for me.
3. i dont know peach well enough to know what characters consistently put her in a position where she has to overuse fair, but im almost positive that it happens. maybe mk?

I can saftley say you have never seen nor played a Peach that can space Bair and Nair like no 2morrow.

Also,no, Cause I go head on with Fair and people get hit. Just simply going in and people get hit. Its not just a bait and punish move. Cause that is never easy to just painly do to a point that move is stale as hell. So you pick, move is not telegraph or the smash community is just stupid. OOOOOOR, they reaction time just blows hard.

i play with san all the time and i still cant powershield ikes fair, so my reaction time is balls awful.

I think she should be above fox. (waits for it.......)

And thats as high on the tier list she should ever go.

i assume you mean where fox is now, which is fair.
2. i expect fox to rise in the next tier list, and I wouldnt put peach over where i think fox will be then.
3. do you still stand by your statement from before that even though you think peach is that good, she should still move down in the next actual tier list due to lack of results?

 

[Eddie G]

I could see it, if peaches starting playing more intelligently.

right now, they're all dumb

*cough* Still smart enough to 2-0 you. *cough*

 

[Ripple]

*cough* Still smart enough to 2-0 you. *cough*

hahaha....like a year ago.

and I guess I didn't mean in general, but they could all stand to play smarter. I've tried telling all peaches how to play better and they don't listen

 

[Lenus Altair]

2. i expect fox to rise in the next tier list, and I wouldnt put peach over where i think fox will be then.

I hope you're wrong.

Fox seems like a stellar example of a character who has shot up because he has good players more so then the traits to back it up (compared to some of the characters around him.) He is still a solid character no doubt but...

I hope you're wrong.

 

[Eddie G]

hahaha....like a year ago.

and I guess I didn't mean in general, but they could all stand to play smarter. I've tried telling all peaches how to play better and they don't listen

Right...because the Brawl metagame has moved sooooooo far since then bro, haha.

But seriously, I sincerely understand that you want to help some Peaches (and players) improve and that's a good thing, but to be frank I can't say I truly believe that you fully understand the perspective of a Peach player. On more than one occasion there have been Peaches (including myself) that have played extremely well, spaced well, took advantage of early kills as much as they could, landed u-smashes, controlled the field, etc....basically and blatantly outplaying their opponent; then her inherent weaknesses start to become more apparent and she either gets outlasted or simply killed first despite having landed some hard reads that most other characters would score kills off of.

My example is with my money match with D. Disciple at Pound 5 (although we only played one match before getting kicked off for a bracket match). Since the start of the match, I blatantly outplayed him to the point of having a 3 to 1 stock lead at some point in the match, including having him in the 80-90% range on his last stock. Then despite having landed some solid hits (a reasonably fresh fair, u-tilt, nair, etc.), he just would. not. die. He eventually worked his way up to getting me to my last stock. I got a couple more reads in but to no avail as he landed his last kill move on me with the force of a truck. THAT is the feeling that Peach players feel pretty often, that feeling of actually playing well and outplaying the opponent, only to fall victim to her own inherent weaknesses time and time again.

If you sincerely believe that most other players out there are playing that much smarter than a handful of the Peach players, then I must say that I wholeheartedly disagree with that. I've actually seen a lot of players who are considered brilliant get away with stupid ****. Why? Simple. Other people have stronger character gimmicks and/or redeeming qualities to work with. We have a character that excels in doubles and we're trying to force more out of her. Don't downplay our skill to the degree of being "dumb" because we haven't quite been able to do so yet.

 

[Deleted member]

I hope you're wrong.

Fox seems like a stellar example of a character who has shot up because he has good players more so then the traits to back it up (compared to some of the characters around him.) He is still a solid character no doubt but...

I hope you're wrong.

I don't see Fox moving up. If anything, maybe his current performance would justify his current position in this list, but I think putting him higher is a bit much.

 

[solecalibur]

Why do peach players always do this? lol kb your catching it!

 

[Eddie G]

Why do peach players always do this? lol kb your catching it!

What do you mean? I'm trying to pull a Leon and go Marth now. xD

 

[Ripple]

Right...because the Brawl metagame has moved sooooooo far since then bro, haha.

But seriously, I sincerely understand that you want to help some Peaches (and players) improve and that's a good thing, but to be frank I can't say I truly believe that you fully understand the perspective of a Peach player. On more than one occasion there have been Peaches (including myself) that have played extremely well, spaced well, took advantage of early kills as much as they could, landed u-smashes, controlled the field, etc....basically and blatantly outplaying their opponent; then her inherent weaknesses start to become more apparent and she either gets outlasted or simply killed first despite having landed some hard reads that most other characters would score kills off of.

I understand just find. the exact opposite happens with me. I get hit and hit and I rarely get to hit back

My example is with my money match with D. Disciple at Pound 5 (although we only played one match before getting kicked off for a bracket match). Since the start of the match, I blatantly outplayed him to the point of having a 3 to 1 stock lead at some point in the match, including having him in the 80-90% range on his last stock. Then despite having landed some solid hits (a reasonably fresh fair, u-tilt, nair, etc.), he just would. not. die. He eventually worked his way up to getting me to my last stock. I got a couple more reads in but to no avail as he landed his last kill move on me with the force of a truck. THAT is the feeling that Peach players feel pretty often, that feeling of actually playing well and outplaying the opponent, only to fall victim to her own inherent weaknesses time and time again.

so lucario can kill when he's down 2 stocks ? cool story

If you sincerely believe that most other players out there are playing that much smarter than a handful of the Peach players, then I must say that I wholeheartedly disagree with that. I've actually seen a lot of players who are considered brilliant get away with stupid ****. Why? Simple. Other people have stronger character gimmicks and/or redeeming qualities to work with. We have a character that excels in doubles and we're trying to force more out of her. Don't downplay our skill to the degree of being "dumb" because we haven't quite been able to do so yet.

I didn't say that. I said I have ways to help peach players be smarter and they don't listen.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Dark.pch's attitude towards competition is actually good, because he doesn't consider his opponent's mistakes because he knows he can't control them. He can only control himself, and thus doesn't use his opponent's actions or his character's weaknesses as an excuse.

With that said, I don't buy the "no one does X, which would make Peach fine" argument. Do it, show us why it works, and then come to the tier list thread talking about it.

 

[Ripple]

Dark.pch's attitude towards competition is actually good, because he doesn't consider his opponent's mistakes because he knows he can't control them. He can only control himself, and thus doesn't use his opponent's actions or his character's weaknesses as an excuse.

With that said, I don't buy the "no one does X, which would make Peach fine" argument. Do it, show us why it works, and then come to the tier list thread talking about it.

I'd do it myself if I wanted to invest any time into peach

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Haha, go for it, Champ.

 

[Dark.Pch]

so her matchups are way too good for the tier standing even you give her... wut

I'm just saying that whenever you state something you don't keep it subjective and make it much more of an absolute... like those other kill setups you posted.... those are mad unreliable but the way you state them makes it seem like you'll be landing them commonly :/

and seriously... there are some characters peach just won't be able to keep out well at all without her fair.... plenty of moves outspace her other options. she can't just throw turnips at them and expect to keep them out... most of the time they can be caught or thrown back on reaction...

Why do you act like fair is the only move I can space with. And no, it's just you assumeing stuff. Man this is my last post to you. You just have this basic mind and throowing things that I am not even getting at. How others get it but not you.

1. I was only refering to the sonic matchup when i spoke of the always in the?air thing. im not saying peach has to be in the air all the time ever, but from what I can tell, her best place to be JUST IN THE MATCHUP AGAINST SONIC, is right above his head. because that makes it very hard for me to attack you.
2. I think ground floating is great in certain matchups, but i think its really bad in the sonic matchup. it puts you in a position that makes it possible to hit you with regular spindash, and dash attack. both are hard to react to because of his speed, and floating higher completely eliminates my dash attack option and mostly ***** my spindash option because even if I jump to try and hit you with it, it gives you enough time to put out a dair or nair b4 i get to you, which is bad for me.
3. i dont know peach well enough to know what characters consistently put her in a position where she has to overuse fair, but im almost positive that it happens. maybe mk?




i play with san all the time and i still cant powershield ikes fair, so my reaction time is balls awful.

i assume you mean where fox is now, which is fair.
2. i expect fox to rise in the next tier list, and I wouldnt put peach over where i think fox will be then.
3. do you still stand by your statement from before that even though you think peach is that good, she should still move down in the next actual tier list due to lack of results?

If Meta wants to Dair Camp I full hop My Dair and it hits him. Same with his fair. Now if he is high, I just go under him. Or glide toss under the at akkack.

As for my statement I stand by it cause with this character all people care about is placement. Thats all they usually focus on. And really don't pay no mind to her in general. They ingore it. And it makes it worst when you have Peach players all playing basic and get ***** in tournies that matter. if they were actually to add her character traits in general, Then hell no she does not need to drop. She needs to be where I said she belongs,

Dark.pch's attitude towards competition is actually good, because he doesn't consider his opponent's mistakes because he knows he can't control them. He can only control himself, and thus doesn't use his opponent's actions or his character's weaknesses as an excuse.

With that said, I don't buy the "no one does X, which would make Peach fine" argument. Do it, show us why it works, and then come to the tier list thread talking about it.

I'm sorry, but what? I actually test things out. I would not say anything I don't know about. Like in match up talks with peach. if I have lil to no brains on it. I stay out of it. So lets not throw this in my face. Also if I actually know things about my character others don't or says wrong things and want to correct them, I have the right to do so. I freaking main her.

Why I don't do all this in tourny? Cause I am a moron when playing in tourny. And play basic. I am at a tourny right now and played just like that. And did horrible (once again, go figure.) I just can't play. I never do what I say people should do and actually works. its pretty weak considering I have been into smash for 5 years. and play like I just got into it.

 

[Steam]

you can't just space with fair... but it's by far her most reliable spacing tool... Bair maybe have a huge disjoint but plenty of things still outrange it. Nair is no better than bair when it comes to spacing... it's a GTFO move...

all I've been saying is that peach has a much harder time spacing when she's saving her fair for kills...

.-.

 

[deepseadiva]

I've tried telling all peaches how to play better and they don't listen

I don't think I've ever heard your ideas on Peach, Ripple. Link? :o

I'm interested.

 

[Ripple]

I don't think I've ever heard your ideas on Peach, Ripple. Link? :o

I'm interested.

ITS NOTHING i POST ABOUT, BUT i TELL PEACH PLAYERS IN PERSON/caps lock

its nothing really long either, just a fantastic mix up that no one ever abuses

 

[z00ted]

alright my ***** you never said anything to me, lol.

Also - Whobo 3 hype.

Also also also oos Nair, bair - **** moves.

Also also also also sh fair, double slap, dash attack, platform game is highly underated with Peach players.

Also also also also also also Peach will do well at Whobo 3.

we out

 

[Ripple]

GUYS...

GUYS

GUYS

GUYS LISTEN.

i HAVE THE BEST IDEA

GUYS LISTEN

i HAVE THE BEST IDEA EVER

peach mains should listen to me

 

[Dark.Pch]

ITS NOTHING i POST ABOUT, BUT i TELL PEACH PLAYERS IN PERSON/caps lock

its nothing really long either, just a fantastic mix up that no one ever abuses

I been saying **** like this for years.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

its nothing really long either, just a fantastic mix up that no one ever abuses

...Peach Bomber?

 

[Spelt]

up b oos?
airdodge?

 

[Matador]

It's actually upB.

Ripple mind****ed all of u.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

alright my ***** you never said anything to me, lol.

Also - Whobo 3 hype.

Also also also oos Nair, bair - **** moves.

Also also also also sh fair, double slap, dash attack, platform game is highly underated with Peach players.

Also also also also also also Peach will do well at Whobo 3.

we out

Oh yeah Bair and Nair OOS are never used

Also yeah fair->2xjab is totally underused

Oh, and look, a Peach player saying PEach will start winning things, it's almost as though I read this all the time and it never actually happens because Peach is bad

Seriously though Marth players and Peach players should stop talking about good their character is and start placing with them

 

[Eddie G]

Seriously though Marth players and Peach players should stop talking about good their character is and start placing with them

Good suggestion. Although I wouldn't get too comfortable knowing that my character is basically being held up by one single outlier either. Riddle is the only one among you doing any real work.

 

[Dre89]

So seeing how Ganondorf has better tournament results than characters such as Jigglypuff, I'm guessing you guys must think Puff mains can't say Puff is better than Ganon until they surpass him in tourney results.

 

[san.]

That's because Puff mains don't really exist. Most jigglypuff users use her as a conditional secondary.

 

[z00ted]

Oh yeah Bair and Nair OOS are never used

Also yeah fair->2xjab is totally underused

Oh, and look, a Peach player saying PEach will start winning things, it's almost as though I read this all the time and it never actually happens because Peach is bad

Seriously though Marth players and Peach players should stop talking about good their character is and start placing with them

k .

 

[Dark.Pch]

Seriously though Marth players and Peach players should stop talking about good their character is and start placing with them

I seriously would not open my mouth if I was you.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

ITS NOTHING i POST ABOUT, BUT i TELL PEACH PLAYERS IN PERSON/caps lock

its nothing really long either, just a fantastic mix up that no one ever abuses

Please tell us :o

 

[Albert.]

Seriously though Marth players should stop talking about good their character is and start placing with them

Well Chaz just got 2nd at a FL tourney. Outplacing both N1ckriddle and S3ibrik

so...

Also... Mike places basically 90% of the time on West Coast but they never post their tourney results on Smashboards, and EU has Leon and Mr. R dominating.



It seems like your statement is invalid my dear fellow

 

[etecoon]

a lot of marth players place, they just nearly never win anything. which is pretty reflective of marth himself, he's a pretty good character but doesn't have anything overtly broken about him like MK, diddy, falco, ice climbers, pikachu, olimar, or snake.

 

[Yikarur]

What do you mean? I'm trying to pull a Leon and go Marth now. xD

last weekend there was a tournament where Leon was playing against Staco (MK) and leaded 2:0 (bo5). Then Staco made a comeback to 2:2 and Leon switched to Peach and won.

moral of the story? :D

oh at that tournament Orion got seventh, he's about to get the same placing as in the USA.
Europe too good

 

[Albert.]

a lot of marth players place, they just nearly never win anything. which is pretty reflective of marth himself, he's a pretty good character but doesn't have anything overtly broken about him like MK, diddy, falco, ice climbers, pikachu, olimar, or snake.

And thats the Mario syndrome of average = bad

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yika is cool