Official BBR Tier List v5

[Espy Rose]

Steam, you make it sound like I don't test things.

Sonic NEEDS to KO Lucario as soon as possible. I've looked into KO percentages on several levels, and I've even made attempts to DI+SDI Sonic's smashes at certain percents so I'd know when Lucario is reasonably able to survive or be KOd from Sonic's attacks.

And I don't know about you, but I've managed to survive Sonic's fresh fsmash near the ledge of FD with Lucario at 140%.

 

[Life]

So Sonic's only hope in the MU is to play campy as heck and then gimp Luc as soon as the opportunity presents itself?

 

[Steam]

Steam, you make it sound like I don't test things.

Sonic NEEDS to KO Lucario as soon as possible. I've looked into KO percentages on several levels, and I've even made attempts to DI+SDI Sonic's smashes at certain percents so I'd know when Lucario is reasonably able to survive or be KOd from Sonic's attacks.

And I don't know about you, but I've managed to survive Sonic's fresh fsmash near the ledge of FD with Lucario at 140%.

I tested it too... and I died pretty easily... and this was in training mode without the fresh moves bonus... like dead before fair was finished...

I guess my DI just sucks :/

 

[infomon]

yeah but if you're Trela then you've got to factor in the -50% he gets for actually being lucario.

 

[MK26]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289107

For some reason, the formatting got ****ed up

html has been disabled for mods and stuff
so anything html-y now just looks like **** lol

 

[BSP]

Steam, you make it sound like I don't test things.

Sonic NEEDS to KO Lucario as soon as possible. I've looked into KO percentages on several levels, and I've even made attempts to DI+SDI Sonic's smashes at certain percents so I'd know when Lucario is reasonably able to survive or be KOd from Sonic's attacks.

And I don't know about you, but I've managed to survive Sonic's fresh fsmash near the ledge of FD with Lucario at 140%.

I survived from the center, but not the edge. You have some amazing DI if you can live from the edge.

But either way, that sucks.

 

[ShadowLink84]

So Sonic's only hope in the MU is to play campy as heck and then gimp Luc as soon as the opportunity presents itself?

Yes.
Where as with most characters Sonic wouldn' mind racking up damage, in this case Sonic has to play very defensively, ebcause Lucario pulls a hulk.
Unles Sonic can secure an early kill in the beginning, it is a extremely difficult battle for Sonic to win.

 

[Steam]

I survived from the center, but not the edge. You have some amazing DI if you can live from the edge.

But either way, that sucks.

yeah I easily survived at the center.

but at the ledge no.

 

[da K.I.D.]

f smash at the ledge kills MK at 98 and snake at 120, I tested this in training mode with all factors acounted for (im sad now cause now san DIs all my kill moves perfectly) so i dont know what testing you were doing espy, but it was bad, and you were dealing with some stale as balls f smashes.

 

[Flayl]

Training mode doesn't use stale move queue, so attacks are slightly less powerful than completely fresh ones in normal brawl. So if KID is DI'ing correctly there's a(n even more) massive difference in results.

 

[da K.I.D.]

well when i was doing my testing, and we were on sans wii, which has stale moves on even in training mode, so i actually killed myself after every test to make sure that my numbers were right.

 

[Espy Rose]

I used training mode, KID.

And I'm pretty sure I was on 140% with Lucario when I survived an fsmash.
I'll go fiddle around with it again.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol and you get on my case for poppin off at the mouth too much. lol.

for what its worth, sonic kills mk from the dead center of FD at 120 with f smash, and he kills snake with it at 153%. So the 'i lived through sonics f smash at 140 with luc' part sounds pretty accurate, i think its just the 'at the edge of the stage' part where you went over board.

If i remember lucs weight values right, i would think from the mid of fd f smash would be a guaranteed kill around like 142-143.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nope, kid's wrong, through number crunching and assuming you have perfect DI its 145 exactly

 

[da K.I.D.]

i only have solid specific numbers for snake and mk, for metagame-obvious reasons. so from there I just have to extrapolate for every other character in the game...

I didnt realise luc was that close to snake. only 8 % off. but then he is part steel type right?

 

[Steam]

f smash at the ledge kills MK at 98 and snake at 120, I tested this in training mode with all factors acounted for (im sad now cause now san DIs all my kill moves perfectly) so i dont know what testing you were doing espy, but it was bad, and you were dealing with some stale as balls f smashes.

I was actually able to survive it near the ledge at around 125 with lucario. :I

and lucario is part steel. He's like 4 feet tall and weighs like 125 pounds while being that skinny.

 

[san.]

All of the fsmashes were from a fresh stock, just to clarify.

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. are you sure you have your numbers right?
2. are you in training mode? remember what flayl said on the last page.
3. near the edge is not the same thing as AT the ledge. small things like that end up making a big difference.
4. the only factors that could influence the data I got, is if a character has an abnormal momentum cancel. You could probably get mk to live past 98% with the up air to immediate side b for MCing, since I didnt account for that due to obvious youre-gonna-die-anyway-at-that-point reasons.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lee really screwed up against X.

 

[Loota]

Lucario has a pretty awesome momentum canceling to the side if done right, surviving the fsmash at 140% doesn't sound too off to me.

 

[Browny]

wow you guys are missing the obvious reason rofl

he said he was at 140% when he survived

that means the fsmash hit him at around 126%. Test your numbers from that.

 

[Steam]

If this is the reason... I don't like espy anymore :<

 

[infomon]

wow you guys are missing the obvious reason rofl

he said he was at 140% when he survived

that means the fsmash hit him at around 126%. Test your numbers from that.

Browny with the thinking cap

 

[Coney]

lmfao, browny wins the prize

 

[BSP]

Lee really screwed up against X.

But he mains Meta Knight now so it's ok

 

[da K.I.D.]

that still doesnt change the fact that if the opponent is standing at the very edge of the stage, it still kills snake at 120

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

But he mains Meta Knight now so it's ok

He's always mained MK.

 

[makoforce]

like OMG can we get a new tier list. I mean we've been through like 3 nationals with this tier list

 

[Dark.Pch]

For this new tier list that comes out, I think Peach should drop.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

For this new tier list that comes out, I think Peach should drop.

I will safe everyone the trouble. WTF is wrong with D.Pch?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Because he realizes people value short term placement over facts nowadays.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Actually no. I say that cause most of what people go by in terms of good/bad characters is tourny results. And now what the character is really able to do. Same apply for match ups. So if people are gonna do it like this, Peach needs to drop. Her tourny results from players are crap.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sort of what I was going for but yeah.

Honestly I value her more than other characters because she has a good case to be pocketed against some characters like Wario and Ice Climbers.

Then again pocket MK > Pocket anyone. :/

 

[Dark.Pch]

She has good match up ratios against high tiers outside of meta and Marth. But in tourny people don't display that. So the community just ignores it all. And I just honestly grown tired of debating with Peach when they just wanna base things solo on tourny results.

So screw, drop her on the tier list.

 

[GimR]

If she only had 1 legit kill move. :/

 

[Eddie G]

Yeah my thoughts exactly, GIMR. That coupled with the fact that she could space all she wants for a solid f-smash and not really ever know which kind she's going to get; even if she filters out one of the f-smash types by using it...she's stuck with a 50-50 gamble. If she had just the golf club then we'd be a little more in business. Lately Peaches have been trying to land more u-smash whenever possible, but it's far from being legit because of its low reliability or chance of landing. She's a character with a solid build, her matchup spread isn't terrible, but her one big flaw of not being able to kill reliably is what puts the nail in her coffin time and time again.

At least she still ***** Sonic. inb4Espy

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, either if you gauge results or potential, I think it all equates to peach not moving. She is like a few others in the upper C range. They all have relatively good match-up spreads, but lack a certain quality that prevents them from making it higher. But, being at upper C range means that all it takes is a person with a little bit more skill and you have results. Although, I do not think that simply because you see results you should automatically jump to saying this demands a rise.

 

[makoforce]

i think snake should still drop. FDiddy is 2nd falco is 3rd snake is 4th marth is 5th, and luigi shoould be low tier =)

 

[Dark.Pch]

If she only had 1 legit kill move. :/

Peach actually does. if Peach players would.you know.stop abusing them so much. Also, Peach has no problem racking up damage. You are really suppose to rack up damage with her weak moves and turnips. Then go in with the kills. And she racks up quick. Plsyers need to start abusing that and play her like chess. Cause thats basically what peach is. Chess.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i tried playing peach for a while and playing normally without fairing is hard with her... =/

its kinda like how 85% of mk players would be infinitely better if they learned to not use down smash until 125%

also, KB, small matchup adv. =/= ****. and even if that were true, having a good matchup against sonic, really isnt worth much.