Official BBR Tier List v5

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unless your Lucario.

~

I wish Peach had her old Dsmash...ok that's asking for too much, that thing was busted. I wish they at least didn't super nerf it like they did.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if it still did 10% per hit i wouldnt have minded the massive reduction in KB

 

[GimR]

Peach actually does. if Peach players would.you know.stop abusing them so much. Also, Peach has no problem racking up damage. You are really suppose to rack up damage with her weak moves and turnips. Then go in with the kills. And she racks up quick. Plsyers need to start abusing that and play her like chess. Cause thats basically what peach is. Chess.

I said legit kill move, not move that can kill. I know her Usmash's very tip is stronger then a snake uptilt, but, it's just so damn small :/

 

[Eddie G]

i tried playing peach for a while and playing normally without fairing is hard with her... =/

its kinda like how 85% of mk players would be infinitely better if they learned to not use down smash until 125%

also, KB, small matchup adv. =/= ****. and even if that were true, having a good matchup against sonic, really isnt worth much.

Saving her fair is unrealistic seeing as its one of her best spacing options, so I don't blame you.

And my bad, I meant to say that I **** the hedgehog, not Peach. xD <3

 

[Z'zgashi]

I know what you mean about mk with dsmash, but you really could shuttle loop instead of dsmash at low damage.

Also (random mk rant) I hate it when mk catches you shielding with an fsmash charging... Especially with yoshi... He can pretty much react to anything you do wether it's sidestep or roll by hitting you with fsmash or releasing it and dash attack/grabing you. Plus if fsmash hits shield he's still safe and has the option to dsmash, shuttle loop, nado, or grab you pretty much instantly ;___;

 

[Dark.Pch]

i tried playing peach for a while and playing normally without fairing is hard with her... =/

its kinda like how 85% of mk players would be infinitely better if they learned to not use down smash until 125%

also, KB, small matchup adv. =/= ****. and even if that were true, having a good matchup against sonic, really isnt worth much.

Dude, I can actually do that and have as of late. What I do is see what % they will die on. And w/e that % is, I will just rank, tank and run till I get it. And I don't burn kill moves. I will barely use it. And I whip it out when it is time for them to die AND I get an opening. I don;'t rush for the kill at all. I wait. I nearly timed out a toon link camping like hell just now cause of this. I 2 stocked him. Got the lead and I just camped, got baby hits and just let him come to me. He wants to keep thrwoing things? Ok, I just evade all his projectiles. None hit me. He has to come to me to finish me off.

It's not hard to do. If you find it hard, it is a personal problem. Not a character problem. And honestly People do this too much.

Unless your Lucario.

~

I wish Peach had her old Dsmash...ok that's asking for too much, that thing was busted. I wish they at least didn't super nerf it like they did.

Ether her Dsmash or Fthrow from melee. I take ether one and Peach is a monster.

I said legit kill move, not move that can kill. I know her Usmash's very tip is stronger then a snake uptilt, but, it's just so damn small :/

Her upsmash is not that small. it hits under BF platforms.

 

[da K.I.D.]

It's not hard to do. If you find it hard, it is a personal problem. Not a character problem. And honestly People do this too much.

1. It IS hard to play peach and get somebody up to 130% without fairing. the fact that you can do it doesnt make it not hard, it just means its not hard enough to not be feasible.

Ether her Dsmash or Fthrow from melee. I take ether one and Peach is a monster.

this.

Her upsmash is not that small. it hits under BF platforms.

the vertical range is alright but the horizontal range on it is piss poor.

 

[Steam]

You can space pretty easily if you know she's saving her fair...

 

[-Mars-]

Yea. Fair is her best spacing option by far and one of the few moves in the MU I actually worry about.

 

[Spelt]

yeah but the thing is if it is somehow fresh during kill percents ... ****'s scary.

 

[vato_break]

uh... no it's not LOL

 

[Steam]

uh... no it's not LOL

This... It's still telegraphed as hell and you'll need a read to land it. at least it's safe when autocancelled...

and as slow as it is if you **** up and see it comming you'll have time to DI it properly... and it's not very strong at all for a kill move

 

[Dark.Pch]

1. It IS hard to play peach and get somebody up to 130% without fairing. the fact that you can do it doesnt make it not hard, it just means its not hard enough to not be feasible.

[/COLOR]

Again, No it is not. Thats for you dude. I have no problem doing that.Peach has a **** load of moves I can use for getting damage. And turnip play for that too. When I play on point like I am suppose to I go without using the move. Now if I have to use it. I use it twice at max, and I use it under 100. I do not lauch the third under 100. And to not launch one over 100 unless it is time for them to die.

You can space pretty easily if you know she's saving her fair...

You ack that that is the only move I can space/kill with. Fair is the typicall way Peach kills and people expect for a death strike. So me knowing this, I an gonna have more options to kill and space. The human mind. I abuse it and use it to my advantage. This helps me win matches.

Like if I have a turnip and I go jump to the enemy. People Might expect me to Turnip to Fair then Jab. Typical **** and mindset of the nemy. Hell, even the Peach player. Now me knowing this, I go "ok, got em". I would just go, jump, Zdrop, grab. or do something random. Not playing by the book cause people think by it. its is human mindset, thought and reaction. And I keep this in mind alot.

 

[vato_break]

soooo....you kill with grabs then?

 

[Dark.Pch]

This... It's still telegraphed as hell and you'll need a read to land it. at least it's safe when autocancelled...

and as slow as it is if you **** up and see it comming you'll have time to DI it properly... and it's not very strong at all for a kill move

if it is telegraphed as hell, why do so many people get hit by it to a point it is to stale. it is stale for a reason. Unless you trying to tell me people in the community after three years are to stupid to evade a 16 frame move (17 at max range)

Also People tend to not take into account that the position you are on a stage when you dish a fresh kill moves atcually comes into play.

 

[da K.I.D.]

however, you have to admit that there are some situations where staling and overusing the fair is something you cant avoid.

Its part of the reason that peach herself is a hard matchup for sonic. every move sonic has aside from bair and up smash get stuffed by pretty much all peaches moves. where as bair stuffs most of peachs moves. add to that the fact that peach doesnt have enough lag to nail with an f smash, and is in the air almost constantly, and that leads to a matchup where bair is almost the only usable move, and as such is going to be very stale most of the time, which means sonic has to get even more creative than normal to find ways to land kill shots.

im not super well versed in the ways of peach, but there has to be some matchups for her that play out similarly.

 

[Steam]

people get hit by fair because (like I already said) It's a bait/punish move...

and that example you used doesn't work when people are aware you're saving your Fair (like I also suggested). They can just space peach out unless they have no range since peach doesn't have the greatest spacing outside of fair.

 

[Dark.Pch]

however, you have to admit that there are some situations where staling and overusing the fair is something you cant avoid.

Its part of the reason that peach herself is a hard matchup for sonic. every move sonic has aside from bair and up smash get stuffed by pretty much all peaches moves. where as bair stuffs most of peachs moves. add to that the fact that peach doesnt have enough lag to nail with an f smash, and is in the air almost constantly, and that leads to a matchup where bair is almost the only usable move, and as such is going to be very stale most of the time, which means sonic has to get even more creative than normal to find ways to land kill shots.

im not super well versed in the ways of peach, but there has to be some matchups for her that play out similarly.

And this comes back to the basic mindset of people and characters I was talking about before. Peach does not need to be in the air all the time. Idk why People think she has too. Really when I can bring it to the ground with ground floating. Really against sonic. I can Ground float Nairs to beat nearly your whole move set.

Also, name me a situation where I have to use fair.

people get hit by fair because (like I already said) It's a bait/punish move...

and that example you used doesn't work when people are aware you're saving your Fair (like I also suggested). They can just space peach out unless they have no range since peach doesn't have the greatest spacing outside of fair.

I can saftley say you have never seen nor played a Peach that can space Bair and Nair like no 2morrow.

Also,no, Cause I go head on with Fair and people get hit. Just simply going in and people get hit. Its not just a bait and punish move. Cause that is never easy to just painly do to a point that move is stale as hell. So you pick, move is not telegraph or the smash community is just stupid. OOOOOOR, they reaction time just blows hard.

 

[Steam]

if they commited to something and got hit by fair then that's called a read (if you did that on purpose). Otherwise IDK, them being stupid. if they just get hit then they're doing it wrong if they let it happen often.

and it doesn't matter how well a peach spaces bair and nair if the moves themselves have substandard range and just get outranged by the opponents moves. She will get outspaced.

edit: I main Lucario, I know a thing or two about telegraphed moves that seem to work a lot lol.

 

[Spelt]

lol fair's not a good move you should never get hit by it

Oh steamy.

 

[Steam]

I didn't know "you need a read to land it" meant "it will never land"

I guess reads don't exist

 

[Spelt]

Reads are what make up the brawl metagame.
that and DIing.

I fail to see how it matters.

 

[Steam]

that post completely contradicted itself

 

[vato_break]

Spelt does that a lot with his posts it seems.

 

[Spelt]

That was an awesome argument you guys.
Very compelling, really just digs deep and makes me rethink my position in this conversation all together.
Genius. A+. 117%. If you guys were a musician you'd be the beatles.

 

[Kinzer]

That was an awesome argument you guys.
Very compelling, really just digs deep and makes me rethink my position in this conversation all together.
Genius. A+. 117%. If you guys were a musician you'd be the beatles.

To be fair, you haven't been doing any better.

Inb4Neitherareyou.

Yeah I know, I can/am playing the same game.

 

[Spelt]

Well, at least now I know I could make it in the music industry.

 

[DMG]

Well, at least now I know I could make it in the music industry.

If by that, you mean act completely artificial and as if you had no soul, then yes.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

When I played dark.pch I live to 160% or more easily unless I DI badly or get hit with a fsmash or something. =/

With that said Peach is a lot more scary when she saves her kill moves, the problem with that is she stops being able to reliably space, which she is actually really good at otherwise. Also, I've said it before but Peach just stops being scary after 100% and dealing damage becomes a lot of work for her, let alone killing. Because you can air dodge out of armageddon in Brawl her strings and combos just stop working and she can't really set up into any kill moves (which wouldn't kill until 300% even if she could lol).

The reality though is just that Peach is a one-trick pony. Her moveset was meticulously designed to pressure and deal damage in strings (very scary ones actually) and not much else. It is for this reason I think #19 on the tier list is if anything generous. I guess you can lump her, Sonic, and Ganon into the "amazing with items on" category.

 

[Dark.Pch]

When I played dark.pch I live to 160% or more easily unless I DI badly or get hit with a fsmash or something. =/

With that said Peach is a lot more scary when she saves her kill moves, the problem with that is she stops being able to reliably space, which she is actually really good at otherwise. Also, I've said it before but Peach just stops being scary after 100% and dealing damage becomes a lot of work for her, let alone killing. Because you can air dodge out of armageddon in Brawl her strings and combos just stop working and she can't really set up into any kill moves (which wouldn't kill until 300% even if she could lol).

The reality though is just that Peach is a one-trick pony. Her moveset was meticulously designed to pressure and deal damage in strings (very scary ones actually) and not much else. It is for this reason I think #19 on the tier list is if anything generous. I guess you can lump her, Sonic, and Ganon into the "amazing with items on" category.

Let me make this clear to you. You live up to that % for 2 reasons. One, I am camping you. I am in no rush to kill you. And 2, If if I play you aggressive. or did you seem to forget about that. Like I was telling dillen. I get her up to 145 to make sure she dies. Her Defense game is good and makes it hard for people to get in. Same time I end up geting damage on the enemy slowly.

I would let snake go up to 300 % and not try to finish him off if I don't see an opening. I'm just gonna chill. Once I get that chance to kill;, I'll go for it.

No set up to kill moves? Did you know (of course not) that I can Z drop>fair and it is legit? Also Glide toss up when one is over you>Uptilt. Dair (dont let the fourth kick come out) To Nair/Bair/Uptilt/upsmash.

Peach not beaing able to string at high Percent really means nothinhg. I get early leads at 0% From there I just camp pressure,hit and fun. Repeat till you have that % that you die on then finish it off. Thats how you play this character.

And one thing you and alot of people don't keep in mind. Where you are one the stage when one gets hit with a finisher depends on how long you live. Thats another reason you live long on me. I don't utilize that. Though I know about it so at high % I try to stage in the middle of the stage to help my survival rate.


So seriously don't even go there with this.

 

[Lenus Altair]

I have to say the Match Up chart is very encouraging for Pit.

In a one on one conversation between the Pit boards and those of another main, other mains agree the Pit is even or may even have a slight advantage on them going up into high tier. However I've seen a lot of disbelief from those who comment on Pit's match ups and main neither character involved. This doesn't only apply to Pit either.

I think this chart goes a long way to help show how much the tier list has been warped by a handful of players skills versus a characters actual ability. I'm not claiming this chart is spot on, but is a step in the right direction. It feels more acurate then the current tier list anyway.

 

[Steam]

dark.pch just kinda argues as if peach's opponent isn't even a variable and peach does everything absolutely perfectly and never takes damage or gets read and her camping is an impervious defense :/

 

[Lenus Altair]

dark.pch just kinda argues as if peach's opponent isn't even a variable and peach does everything absolutely perfectly and never takes damage or gets read and her camping is an impervious defense :/

Agreed.

Peach is solid no doubt. Her strings and shield pressure are great. Turnips are a solid projectile in multiple respects, and she can get around the battlefield while camping as necessary.

However, no matter how you break it down, once you get to the higher percents she loses her edge. Sure she can camp, but she can be read while camping, and frankly there are characters who outcamp her. Also sure she can save/setup her kill moves but frankly there are characters that have better kill moves, better kill move setups, or both.

 

[Alus]

dark.pch just kinda argues as if peach's opponent isn't even a variable and peach does everything absolutely perfectly and never takes damage or gets read and her camping is an impervious defense :/

People like that can be kinda frustrating, but there has got to be a reason why so-and-so believes something in the face of doubt. A productive debate isn't two groups facing each other off, its two groups working together to find the truth, if you close off your teammate in this journey, you're on it alone, and you're just as bad.

Who knows, maybe dark.pch's opponents actually aren't variables.

 

[Dark.Pch]

dark.pch just kinda argues as if peach's opponent isn't even a variable and peach does everything absolutely perfectly and never takes damage or gets read and her camping is an impervious defense :/

Uh, just because I correct you on a character I know about more then you does not seroisly lead to this. So quit assume so much stuff and pay attention to what one actually tells you.

 

[Steam]

ok, peach is unapproachable... ban peach.

 

[Alus]

And this is why i hate this board.

 

[Steam]

It would help if he stated things more subjectively and acknowledge that just because peach is camping doesn't mean she's unapproachable...

 

[Dark.Pch]

ok, peach is unapproachable... ban peach.

When have I ever said that? Now you are just throwing **** out. Seriously, now you are just being a child. This is why I can't debate and correct people in this community.

You don't even know where I think Peach should be on their list. Again pay attention before you post to try and sound funny.

 

[Steam]

When have I ever said that? Now you are just throwing **** out. Seriously, now you are just being a child. This is why I can't debate and correct people in this community.

You don't even know where I think Peach should be on their list. Again pay attention before you post to try and sound funny.

just re-read what you said to SFP.