Orion*
Smash Researcher
I don't know grammer, real talk. I was never taught it in US public schools LOL. I just talk and I know if it sounds right XD
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Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
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Mr. Doom
Smash Hero
I care since I'm such a stickler for people getting my name right. I'll call you KID.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Name search bait taken.I care since I'm such a stickler for people getting my name right. I'll call you KID.
I call him, that dude that owes me money
Of course you would, Doom.I care since I'm such a stickler for people getting my name right. I'll call you KID.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Imo, MK/Snake/ZSS are IC's only bad matchups. But the only matchups I can prove with evidence is Peach and Toonlink. So I'd like that to change. Recently, even after several months of me not playing, I show up at this tournament and take out Illmatic and Shadow1pj (sorry guys lolol).
Vs PJ
WF vs Illmatic
GF vs Illmatic
Watch the whole set before you judge. There are a few fluke matches that are dumb.
I believe ICs definitely have the tools to follow Toonlink. You don't have to desync at all, it's all reading jumps. Getting hit by bombs when upairing TL is worth it since TL is taking the upair and bomb damage. If you're good at PSing and know how to use ICs, you should be able to adapt to TL.
And Peach is a bit different because each game is very different. Peach is really good pressuring our shield, but nair, upair, even belay and dair can punish her. Once she has us separated, she can keep control. KOing Nana is very easy. Honestly, this is a very straightup matchup. When she approaches with dair, dash away and hit with bair. If shielding dair, roll away or buffer a nair (if you do it right, nana will only do it and Popo can run away). Her turnips are a useful tool, but not a dominating force. Squall (ICs SideB) is good for a surprise, but if Peach predicts it then nair beats it easily. So when using squall, you have to be unexpected and do it rising so she can't pop out and use nair.
I can go on and on about the Peach matchup, but I believe it's even.
Vs PJ
WF vs Illmatic
GF vs Illmatic
Watch the whole set before you judge. There are a few fluke matches that are dumb.
I believe ICs definitely have the tools to follow Toonlink. You don't have to desync at all, it's all reading jumps. Getting hit by bombs when upairing TL is worth it since TL is taking the upair and bomb damage. If you're good at PSing and know how to use ICs, you should be able to adapt to TL.
And Peach is a bit different because each game is very different. Peach is really good pressuring our shield, but nair, upair, even belay and dair can punish her. Once she has us separated, she can keep control. KOing Nana is very easy. Honestly, this is a very straightup matchup. When she approaches with dair, dash away and hit with bair. If shielding dair, roll away or buffer a nair (if you do it right, nana will only do it and Popo can run away). Her turnips are a useful tool, but not a dominating force. Squall (ICs SideB) is good for a surprise, but if Peach predicts it then nair beats it easily. So when using squall, you have to be unexpected and do it rising so she can't pop out and use nair.
I can go on and on about the Peach matchup, but I believe it's even.
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
I agree tl vs ics is even
but you're about to get some people who don't play the mu tell you how wrong we are.
while im here.
lucario,diddy, marth and d3 beat tl+1
falco, mk beat him +2
luigi, fox, dk, ics, sonic, peach and g&w are 0s
samus is -1
but you're about to get some people who don't play the mu tell you how wrong we are.
while im here.
lucario,diddy, marth and d3 beat tl+1
falco, mk beat him +2
luigi, fox, dk, ics, sonic, peach and g&w are 0s
samus is -1
z00ted
The Assault of Laughter ﷼
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 10,800
It's in Peach's favor.
You may have won Smoom, and I know I've been saying it's even for a while now - but after that tournament I realized Peach definitely has the tools to beat ICs. She has strong separation tools, amazing damage output, a good aerial killing move, a projectile, and a FLOAT. If you look at specific points in that video, there is nothing you are really doing to ME besides spacing well and playing extremely defensively. Your only threat is your grab... which really is a threat against all characters. On the other hand, once I get some momentum on your character the whole game shifts in my direction and I can keep the lead as long as I want (if I don't make bad decisions). I'm up both 2-1 and 2-0 in both sets, but I gain too much confidence in myself and start making poor decisions (which is apparent on both games on Brinstar in the second set).
Peach wins if she doesn't land dumb fairs on shield, play poorly on counterpicks, or use too many turnips.
Although I may be the best Peach at the matchup (playing you 24/7), I don't feel as though my playstyle accommodates how the matchup should be played. A smart and defensive Peach can consistently beat Ice Climbers if playing well.
40:60
Don't knock your character, Smoom - you just played better than me this time around!
You may have won Smoom, and I know I've been saying it's even for a while now - but after that tournament I realized Peach definitely has the tools to beat ICs. She has strong separation tools, amazing damage output, a good aerial killing move, a projectile, and a FLOAT. If you look at specific points in that video, there is nothing you are really doing to ME besides spacing well and playing extremely defensively. Your only threat is your grab... which really is a threat against all characters. On the other hand, once I get some momentum on your character the whole game shifts in my direction and I can keep the lead as long as I want (if I don't make bad decisions). I'm up both 2-1 and 2-0 in both sets, but I gain too much confidence in myself and start making poor decisions (which is apparent on both games on Brinstar in the second set).
Peach wins if she doesn't land dumb fairs on shield, play poorly on counterpicks, or use too many turnips.
Although I may be the best Peach at the matchup (playing you 24/7), I don't feel as though my playstyle accommodates how the matchup should be played. A smart and defensive Peach can consistently beat Ice Climbers if playing well.
40:60Don't knock your character, Smoom - you just played better than me this time around!
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
Disagree. 5/5
Don't care what you say
Don't care what you say
2-DJeff
Smash Master
I agree to ic vs tl is even. Ic players like myself have to actually think during the match. A lot of ic players lose because they play like there brain dead and only go for the grab.
@ illmatics post ill say ic vs peach 5-5 or 55-45 peach. She has the tools but ic has tools to fight back. So that its not a wreck fest lol
I understand what you say Illmatic, about how your losses were due to overconfidence, but my losses could be shown that way also. In WF, I 3 stock first game, and I felt good and that's when I played horribly (even though you could argue I played horribly first match since I got grabs) the next games.
I still feel it's even.
I still feel it's even.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
This is interesting I want kyon to play smoom a couple sets and me play illmatic because kyon plays me a hell of a lot and smoom plays illmatic a lot. I want to do this to really see what the mu is. It would be a great experiment.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,302
If we're throwing in Peaches that are good at the IC matchup, Nicole is pretty ****ing good at this matchup and has been an IC slayer against myself, Future, and Hylian.
Don't quote me for it, but I think the consensus on the Midwest ICs would be that it's adv Peach, just maybe not by that much in varying degrees. At least that's where I stand and I'm pretty sure Hylian, Future, and maybe even lain would agree
Don't quote me for it, but I think the consensus on the Midwest ICs would be that it's adv Peach, just maybe not by that much in varying degrees. At least that's where I stand and I'm pretty sure Hylian, Future, and maybe even lain would agree
z00ted
The Assault of Laughter ﷼
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 10,800
That's not really what I'm getting at.
All I'm saying is that if Peach plays safe, she should beat ICs.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Peach seperates ICs pretty well. She puts out more than Nana, causing Popo to be solo with Peach more often while Nana is left behind unloved.
....
I just wanted to say that :x
....
I just wanted to say that :x
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Who's better at separating the ICs? Ike or Peach?
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
idk, Ike can jab -> grab -> pummel -> bthrow -> dash attack to separate the ICs safely. His pummel has enough hitstun that he can do that.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Ike takes Nana to town.
After he muscles his way through Popo
I'll say this:
Multiple peaches beating multiple ICs
San beating ICs, while ICs beat the rest of the Ike mains (Minus Ryo?)
Either we're doing something wrong, or Peaches have an easier time
After he muscles his way through Popo
I'll say this:
Multiple peaches beating multiple ICs
San beating ICs, while ICs beat the rest of the Ike mains (Minus Ryo?)
Either we're doing something wrong, or Peaches have an easier time
2-DJeff
Smash Master
Ike isn't that good at separating but one separation by ike means automatic death of nana. Usually
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Wasn't Slaps also beating ICs fairly well?San beating ICs, while ICs beat the rest of the Ike mains (Minus Ryo?)
Ussi
Smash Legend
If he still plays i'd count him.
Unless we're gonna count an old MM
Unless we're gonna count an old MM
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
slaps tho?
leeel
leeel
MARLX
Smash Journeyman
True ice climbers seem to have some options. (more than peach)
MARLX
Smash Journeyman
Imo ike can do something to ic. The range of ike's attacks, and power of ikes moves i think over runs ic, unless ike gets grabed.
Peach doesn't seem to have the range nor power like ike does, besides the Down B anything than that no.
.Peach doesn't seem to have the range nor power like ike does, besides the Down B anything than that no.
The slaps MM thing was just a joke, he doesn't really play the MU very well.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Heh, I just remember hearing about it, and I wasn't about to dig through that topic for it.
hello, i namesearch.
anyways peach beats ics by a little bit if the ics really really knows what they're doing against her. the best ics i've ever played is future and he got scary good vs peach by playing me a bunch lol. anyways no one else really compares to him at the MU and i have no trouble against ics generally.
all you have to do is be good with spacing and your float and they shoudlnt be grabbing you much. if nana's shield wasnt 6 frames after popo's the matchup would be impossible for peach (and many other chars i suppose), but it is, and as such, peach can just destroy nana. peach really doesnt need to be that cautious or campy, in fact if she is she probably wont do as well. you just cant be scared of them. once you separate nana (which can easily be done with an '08 floated dair) peach can actually kill her too, since nana cant DI. turnips can gimp the ics rather well also.
idk peach may suck as you say but she does beat the ics, and i personally dont think they're that good of a character anyway.
anyways peach beats ics by a little bit if the ics really really knows what they're doing against her. the best ics i've ever played is future and he got scary good vs peach by playing me a bunch lol. anyways no one else really compares to him at the MU and i have no trouble against ics generally.
all you have to do is be good with spacing and your float and they shoudlnt be grabbing you much. if nana's shield wasnt 6 frames after popo's the matchup would be impossible for peach (and many other chars i suppose), but it is, and as such, peach can just destroy nana. peach really doesnt need to be that cautious or campy, in fact if she is she probably wont do as well. you just cant be scared of them. once you separate nana (which can easily be done with an '08 floated dair) peach can actually kill her too, since nana cant DI. turnips can gimp the ics rather well also.
idk peach may suck as you say but she does beat the ics, and i personally dont think they're that good of a character anyway.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Still means Popo PS Nana gets hit
I don't find ICs particularly troubling at all, either. It's probably close to even on most of the starters, and Ike gets a win for free on his CPs.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
everyone gets a free win on the CP against the ICs, thats why they all second mk.
Who cares.
In the end, Yoshi separates them the best!
Solver to every players Problem.
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