Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[Anth0ny]

Don't spout false info about Marth's match-ups k thnx.

MK ***** him at 30/70 or 35/65 at best and the others are 40/60 at worst.

Not saying Marth matters in the metagame just want you to get ur facts straight.

LOL of all the people to own me

But is it really 60-40 vs. Snake and DDD? Seriously, Marth kinda gets destroyed by them

I've heard a lot of people say that DDD Marth's worst matchup. Worse than MK. Hmm.

 

[hippiedude92]

Now what kind of people are you hearing? Hmmm? Marth is my legit cp for D3, Mk, snake and GaW. I'm pretty darn stupid too lol.

 

[ADHD]

Don't spout false info about Marth's match-ups k thnx.

MK ***** him at 30/70 or 35/65 at best and the others are 40/60 at worst.

Not saying Marth matters in the metagame just want you to get ur facts straight.

You quite honestly don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Shaya]

Marth : Dedede is spouting itself pretty close to even.

Marth : Snake is very opinionated. I honestly think he could be Marth's worst match up; Neo 'stated' it to be 40:60, whilst many Marth's still think its 45:55/even at worse....

Marth : MK -> The 'biggie'. From what Neo (Beating dojo in MMs, etc) and Mike (DSF/Tyrant) have shown, MK can have huge struggles against Marth on stage. I'm insane enough to think if you don't want to count off stage gimping 'potential' (which unfortunately is 'huge') it's probably 45:55; gimp central is where people will estimate whether or not it goes to 40:60 or 35:65.

If the new tier list is to be what I assume, Marth will have the advantage on the 3rd, 4th and 5th best characters in the game (being the hardest match ups for two of them).

The same person who originally claimed that Dedede was Marth's hardest match up, and also said something akin to "makes Marth unviable", now says Marth has the slight advantage.
Name: MikeHaze

 

[fromundaman]

Lol sorry mangz. Ever since brawl came out, the beginning of the meta-game, Mario and Luigi boards clashed with whose better and what not. We had endless debates and flame wars so I guess I still have it in me. I just get so tired of seeing wrong info being thrown out when people just know the surface of a character. But hence we'll fix those mistakes I guess lol. But yeah sorry, it's just a Mario/Luigi main character thing. Ask any early meta-game mainer and they would understand too >_>

4) lol, to be honest I always take it either people are comparing them or doing the actual matchup Mario vs Luigi so I tend to misunderstood it and such.

2) Lol, I only read for shield pokeing part in the ( ) for some reason idk why so i took it as if it was shield pokes xD! but anyways just still want to throw it out that Luigi's aerials Dair, Nair, upair shield poke (or stab idk what's the difference tho). And Mario's Dair, and I think Upair? nair shield poke. Just throwin it out there.

Haha, no worries.
Also, didn't know Mario's Uair and Nair shieldpoked. Guess I learned something new! Thanks!

 

[Remzi]

You quite honestly don't know what you're talking about.

His ratings were actually pretty accurate

I have them at:

Marth v D3: 40:60 or 45:55
Marth v Snake: 40:60
Marth v MK: 35:65

 

[Emblem Lord]

You quite honestly don't know what you're talking about.

Sorry but Marth knowledge isn't something anyone even has the right to question me about or make the claim that I don't know my ****.

Come back when you are ready young one.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You quite honestly don't know what you're talking about.

Actually EL's information is very accurate.
I also do not think it is advisable to say such things to him either.

 

[Jski]

His ratings were actually pretty accurate

I have them at:

Marth v D3: 40:60 or 45:55
Marth v Snake: 40:60
Marth v MK: 35:65

If that true why is marth so high up there? Also 45:55 does not seem that bad its just about 50:50 if you realize there a marge of error to all of this.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol. Why wouldn't he be? And he isn't THAT high. What's his place on this list? 6th? I dunno. I haven't looked at it in awhile and I don't feel like glancing at the first page.

That said he messes up a few other top/high tiers and beats everyone else in the game.

So why wouldn't he be in the top ten?

Anyway losing to the top two is a BIG DEAL. It means Marth will NEVER have any REAL effect on the metagame.

Marth could have been third best in the game easily but losing to MK so badly knocks him down a few notches.

 

[Jski]

Well 6th out of what 37 character give or take 3 is very high up there. I really would like to know where these numbers are coming from because when you look from form to form they differ and there does not all way seem to be a consent (well i guess its like a different of 5 most of the time but 5 seem to be enofe to determent where they should be).

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's simple. Getting ***** by MK completely invalidates Marth as a character BUT it can't be denied that he is still a force to be reckoned with.

So he ends up as 6th or 7th or w/e.

 

[Xyro77]

Well 6th out of what 37 character give or take 3 is very high up there. I really would like to know where these numbers are coming from because when you look from form to form they differ and there does not all way seem to be a consent (well i guess its like a different of 5 most of the time but 5 seem to be enofe to determent where they should be).

dont go what forums say. This game is young and that data is ALWAYS changing. EL has beena round since melee, when he thinks a match-up is XX-XX in XX favor, its pretty close to true.

Marth is REALLY only held back by metaknight. At least with DDD you can play MEGA definsive and get some where. With metaknight it dont matter, he will "**** you 6 days to sunday"


PS: did it get that saying right?

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol. Yeah I think you did and it's so true. Little guy with the cape just has too many options.

 

[M.K]

It's simple. Getting ***** by MK completely invalidates Marth as a character BUT it can't be denied that he is still a force to reckoned with.

So he ends up as 6th or 7th or w/e.

It doesn't completely invalidate him, I suppose.
Marth is a very good character, he seems to be among those chosen few at the top (DDD, Wario, Game and Watch, Diddy, Marth).
It sort of seems like the Top of High Tier and the Bottom of Bottom Tier are the areas that....don't really matter WHICH spots the contenders are in, it should be generally noted that each poses a large threat/no threat to a tournament goer.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok. True facts. Imma lay it down why Marth is good.

He is MK-Lite.

That right there ends the discussion on why Marth is high tier.

 

[Jski]

Well it is lame how one character has become so game defining. With this true will we see character who are kind of good vs. MetaKnight (40:60 and 45:55) will they go up?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Why do you think characters like Diddy,Wario and Falco are higher then Marth even though Marth beats all of them?

The answer: They do better vs MK.

The little guy has already reshaped the metagame since the first few months.

 

[Hence]

Didn't Marth counter MK until approach stuffing was announced?

What makes the matchup 35:65?

 

[Brinzy]

Well, EL is here so he obviously knows best, but doesn't MK just outplay him at many important aspects (zoning, recovery/edgeguarding, possibly killing)?

 

[Jski]

Is metagame a phrase beyond this game or are we saying that this is a mata game lol sry j/k what i would really like to know is we will see "lower" character moving up purely base off how good they are vs. Meta? (I want to see zss move up a good bit she 40:60 vs meta but that still not good enofe it seems)

 

[Emblem Lord]

MK outranges Marth and attacks faster.

Marth's entire game revolves around using his speed combined with solid range to limit and control his opponent.

Marth can't do this to MK at all.

Marth loses his entire game against MK.

Whatever Marth does, MK does it better.

 

[Xyro77]

Why do you think characters like Diddy,Wario and Falco are higher then Marth even though Marth beats all of them?

The answer: They do better vs MK.

The little guy has already reshaped the metagame since the first few months.

theres more to it than that but yea i agree,

Well, EL is here so he obviously knows best, but doesn't MK just outplay him at many important aspects (zoning, recovery/edgeguarding, possibly killing)?

nope. He does that to EVERY CHARACTER in the game.

 

[Brinzy]

That's probably already a factor, but I'm not sure. I mean, on one hand I can see why it'd be a factor, but on the other, I'm not sure if (based off of the current and mostly irrelevant list) Yoshi should be that low if the MK fight is considered.

nope. He does that to EVERY CHARACTER in the game.

Well yeah, but say a character like... I dunno, Falco is taken into consideration. He still has lasers to work with whatnot. At the very least, doesn't this mean that they can at least use strategies that Marth cannot? I'm somewhat uncomfortable discussing this because I know next to nothing about the match-ups of these characters.

 

[Brinzy]

Oops, sorry.

 

[Xyro77]

That's probably already a factor, but I'm not sure. I mean, on one hand I can see why it'd be a factor, but on the other, I'm not sure if (based off of the current and mostly irrelevant list) Yoshi should be that low if the MK fight is considered.



Well yeah, but say a character like... I dunno, Falco is taken into consideration. He still has lasers to work with whatnot. At the very least, doesn't this mean that they can at least use strategies that Marth cannot? I'm somewhat uncomfortable discussing this because I know next to nothing about the match-ups of these characters.

how can you say that about yoshi. he gets molested by MANY MNAY MANY people. Even the ones he can CG.

Marth is held back by ONE maybe TWO chars

 

[Brinzy]

The main point I was making was that if the MK match-up held a lot of weight in the tier list, then he should benefit from it because he's not ***** as hard as many characters are... however, if he really does lose badly to many others, then that explains him.

 

[Xyro77]

The main point I was making was that if the MK match-up held a lot of weight in the tier list, then he should benefit from it because he's not ***** as hard as many characters are... however, if he really does lose badly to many others, then that explains him.

yea, to be honest, yoshi gets beat BADLY by many other chars.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

yea, to be honest, yoshi gets beat BADLY by many other chars.

leik who?
sure Marth and GW are ovbious but anything else is 40:60 whoever or higher

 

[Emblem Lord]

Having alot of 40/60's isn't a good thing just so you know.

 

[Xyro77]

leik who?
sure Marth and GW are ovbious but anything else is 40:60 whoever or higher

samus beats yoshi 65-35

metaknight.


theres 2 more. so like i said. you got alot of things to worry about. marth really doesnt

 

[Jski]

But that not that big of a different (40:60). It may be an up hill fight but if you brand the character as a low tear then ppl are less likely to work on them there by become a self fulfilling proficiency. (i hope i used the right words!) I guess i am starting to argue agents tear list hmmm sry... Any way does that idea i said at the top of this pages hold any water?

samus beats yoshi 65-35

metaknight.


theres 2 more. so like i said. you got alot of things to worry about. marth really doesnt

Samus for top tear!

 

[goodkid]

Marth is good, but I think he will fall a little. I mean he is simple like G&W in that most of his most are easily predicted & you can kind of figure whats coming next. If Marth is in the air, Fair or nair will come out. In the air? Marth will just counter you w/ uair. His recovery is pretty easy to gimp for certain chars. so that limits him a little bit. He is still in the top 10, but I don't see him as a threat like MK, Snake.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Having alot of 40/60's isn't a good thing just so you know.

over half of yoshi's matchups are even, he really only has 2 really bad matchups,the rest are questionable and dont really matter much

samus beats yoshi 65-35

metaknight.


theres 2 more. so like i said. you got alot of things to worry about. marth really doesnt

MK is 45:55-40:60 at the least, and Samus is 40:60 from what ive seen

 

[MurdaMoe]

mk
snake
wario
diddy
ddd
falco
marth

 

[Xyro77]

over half of yoshi's matchups are even, he really only has 2 really bad matchups,the rest are questionable and dont really matter much

MK is 45:55-40:60 at the least, and Samus is 40:60 from what ive seen

you yoshis live in FANTASY WORLD

 

[bigman40]

I live in i don't care land lol. Ratios don't help me at all. So I wouldn't care.

Yoshi is ok. He isn't that good, nor is he that bad though.

 

[Chaco]

you yoshis live in FANTASY WORLD

Killa isn't even really a Yoshi main. Lol.

 

[Xyro77]

Killa isn't even really a Yoshi main. Lol.

oh i guess hes just dumb all the waya round.

 

[Kinzer]

Xyro hates Nevada/Vegas.

I blame Samus, just because her Tudor is pretty good.

But seriously Yoshi is okay I guess.