Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[NinjaFoxX]

ok...so i forgot about Falco, the rest of those are questionable>.>
and i DO main yoshi xD(just ask Kinzer xD)
and im not as dumb as xryo*rage*
AND, its not yoshi fanboyism, besides, theres always my ICs

 

[SKnickers03]

wario, up
toon link, up

those are the two changes i think are going to happen...toon link wont jump far...but i have a feeling he'll rise a couple of spots

 

[B!squick]

Nah. All Tink has is projectile spam.

And doods, Bowser is totally dropping. He's so slow.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Nah. All Tink has is projectile spam.

And doods, Bowser is totally dropping. He's so slow.

NO! Bowser shall not be accepted in low tier so he can still tourney wins >:[
He's not Sonic.

 

[M.K]

NO! Bowser shall not be accepted in low tier so he can still tourney wins >:[
He's not Sonic.

34 Bowser (6 top8) - 6.3

^From Character Rankings.

You better start "tourney wins >:[" before he is thrusted even farther down the list.

 

[Red Arremer]

Though he's right... Bowser would probably **** Low Tier tournaments if he were to put into Low Tier.

 

[Jigglymaster]

My Jigglypuff wins low tier tournaments.

Also if you didn't notice, Jigglypuff stands above Link, Mario, Bowser, Samus, Falcon, and Ganon in the character ranking list. Ness and Jigglypuff are the only ones that have won a tournament out in the E rank. Jigglypuff also has more top 4 placings then Ness but Ness has more top 8 placings than Jigglypuff.

 

[fromundaman]

To be fair though, other than Falcon, the characters you mention are severely underplayed (And, you know, as low tiers, they tend to have trouble competing against the rest of the cast.), hence the lack of any sort of tourny rankings.

 

[Shaya]

I think the SBR and people in general under estimate **** grab games...

*cough Dedede not being third cough*

*cough Jigglypuff, who definitely isn't as good but still has a pretty good damaging grab game cough*

If Dedede could 'combo' people with like a LASER or a tornado or GRENADES, he'd totally be in the top 3, amirite? but because its a grab and does more damage and is a much better punishment option with d3's amazing grab range, it isn't as good

 

[Jigglymaster]

This is pretty much how Jigglypuff's Metagame works.

She gets you up to 100% quick by doing throws, pounds, tilts, dair, and b air. And then kills you with a fresh f air which kills you before you get to 120% (saying that your a middle weight). Some times though you'll get killed earlier by that by a rollout, even a rollout charged for less than a second has the power to kill some1 around 60%. Jigglypuff could gimp a player as well, and finally she has rest, which she can punish rolling with and do drill to rest, and its unavoidable if the opponent trips by the dair. The downside is that Jigglypuff can mess up the fresh fair and will have to use other moves to be able to kill again, which wouldn't be till like another 20% or so.

Jigglypuff's biggest concern is stale moves. Her #1 killing move is the fair which won't kill if stale. A lot of her moves can do about 10-12% and have little lag. The Utilt does 12%, the f tilt (yes that tiny kick she does) does 10 friekien percent. And every one of her grabs does 10%. Each of Jigglypuff's pummels do 3%.

Jigglypuff's grab game is a beast. Like, her dash grab goes 3 character lengths its so long. Jigglypuff's throws have little follow up so its best to rotate through each one. If an opponent is excpecting a drill to rest combo you can grab them after drilling them.

Three of Jigglypuffs moves are some of the longest lasting moves that shouldn't even last that long. Her dair but its supposed to be that way, the nair which stays out very long and can go through air dodges, and pound, the longest lasting, long range, sheild breaking, move that *****. Jigglypuff can angle the pound up or down and that makes Jigglypuff travel even further. It also it cuts sheilds in half and breaks thoughs that are less than half. Its downside is that it has a big cooldown time and can be sheild grabbed out of it.

Rollout is one of the most quickest powerful attacks that can be kill without having to fully charge it. This is one of the moves that makes games cruical for opponents who don't know how to fight a Jigglypuff (which most likely will be many since Jigglypuff is low tier). If you think you can just shield it and live your dead wrong, Jigglypuff can turn her rollout 3 and sometimes even 4 times, the result of your sheild will either be a sheild poke death or your sheild breaks and then you die from a fsmash. Trying to counter it with Ike, Marth, or Lucario's counter won't work either, rollout is fast and it just goes right by before they can hit with their counter, and by that time Jigglypuffs turned around and hit you with a rebound. If players know the match up then rollout won't be as effective because they'll know how to avoid it.

Jigglypuff also has many good stages that she can choose from in tournaments.
Delfino Plaza - Sharking and Rest Canceling
Brinstar - Sharking and Stale Removal (by hitting the stage with attacks like n air to refresh f air)
Frigate - Gimping
Castle Siege - Stale Removal
Japes - Gimping

Even stages like Smashville and Yoshi's Island there Jigglypuff can use stale removal by hitting the ballon or shy guys.

 

[slikvik]

I think the SBR and people in general under estimate **** grab games...

*cough Dedede not being third cough*

*cough Jigglypuff, who definitely isn't as good but still has a pretty good damaging grab game cough*

If Dedede could 'combo' people with like a LASER or a tornado or GRENADES, he'd totally be in the top 3, amirite? but because its a grab and does more damage and is a much better punishment option with d3's amazing grab range, it isn't as good

Agreed...well except for jiggs. jiggs still blows. But D3 is easily 3rd best, followed by diddy, then wario

 

[PhantomX]

I really don't think D3 is third best at all, at least not in the current metagame that is abundant with MKs, and Falcos... and now that there is a surge of IC players coming about. He's definitely solid, and he has a handful of great player representing him, but his size and limited mobility really constrict him.

 

[Hylian]

Do you seriously think rollout is useful in singles?

I mean...do your opponents not know how to jump?

 

[Frown]

Do you seriously think rollout is useful in singles?

I mean...do your opponents not know how to jump?

You mean "use any attack on it", right?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You mean "use any attack on it", right?

You mean do whatever the hell you want right?

 

[fromundaman]

Meh, it's all right if they don't see it coming (IE half second charge), though I wouldn't see it as a reliable kill move.
Also, it has weird properties... I've seen it clash with a fully charged Monkey Punch, so meh (though I've seen it get ***** by fully charged Monkey Punches much more often.).

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, except for standing there like a victim, of course.

 

[PhantomX]

Go near an edge and shield so she can kill herself.

 

[Boxob.]

Roll out is serious business. It's very predictable what with the start up, noises, colors, fireworks. But so is Bowser's Fsmash, and people still get hit by that. It's an excellent punishing move, alongside rest.

Scenario where roll out could be used:
A MK uses nado, and accidentally goes too high where now he'll have the ending lag. Well, Jiggs sees that and charges roll out and releases it a little after he lands. Even the less than one second charge is fast and does a lot of damage and knock back.

 

[momochuu]

So pretty much we're all thinking the same thing. Rollout is bad?

 

[Boxob.]

:[

Roll out is decent. It's a good punisher and you can sometimes get people with it by surprise. It's obviously not the best. But definitely usable ever match or so. And if that get's you a kill, it's a decent move.

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, there's still Sing, though.

 

[PhantomX]

Jigglymaster hit Dojo with sing!

 

[Hylian]

:[

Roll out is decent. It's a good punisher and you can sometimes get people with it by surprise. It's obviously not the best. But definitely usable ever match or so. And if that get's you a kill, it's a decent move.

A move that you are only able to use when your opponent is in a venerable state because of some mistake they made (I.e. nadoing really high for some reason...against a jigglypuff...?) is generally considered bad.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Dodging rollout is easier said then done. Your talking about when its easiest to dodge rollout. Obviously people will dodge rollout 100% of the time If I just charge it up on the opposite side of the stage.

Rollout punishes mistakes and can tech chase and attacking it is very dangerous.

Not to mention there can be mindgames put into it. Its hard to tell which way Jigglypuff rolls. In the air I can change the direction of the startup with the reverse neutral b. The opponent either tries to avoid or attack but ends up mis timing it and gets hit.

Its really dumb when people say that they can always dodge rollout because I've always found ways to hit them with it.


Also rollout is one of the main reasons for Frigate being a good Jiggs cp. If your against some1 who dosn't have a really good recovery or has grenades like snake then your bound to hit them with rollout.

 

[TP]

Well, there's still Sing, though.

I hit someone with a ledge-canceled Sing the other day. I was going to kill him, but I just had to taunt. I had to.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I just had an amazing realisation.
This is how you win one game with jigglypuff

This is pretty much how Jigglypuff's Metagame works.

She gets you up to 100% quick by doing throws, pounds, tilts, dair, and b air. And then kills you with a fresh f air which kills you before you get to 120% (saying that your a middle weight). Some times though you'll get killed earlier by that by a rollout, even a rollout charged for less than a second has the power to kill some1 around 60%. Jigglypuff could gimp a player as well, and finally she has rest, which she can punish rolling with and do drill to rest, and its unavoidable if the opponent trips by the dair. The downside is that Jigglypuff can mess up the fresh fair and will have to use other moves to be able to kill again, which wouldn't be till like another 20% or so.

Jigglypuff's biggest concern is stale moves. Her #1 killing move is the fair which won't kill if stale. A lot of her moves can do about 10-12% and have little lag. The Utilt does 12%, the f tilt (yes that tiny kick she does) does 10 friekien percent. And every one of her grabs does 10%. Each of Jigglypuff's pummels do 3%.

Jigglypuff's grab game is a beast. Like, her dash grab goes 3 character lengths its so long. Jigglypuff's throws have little follow up so its best to rotate through each one. If an opponent is excpecting a drill to rest combo you can grab them after drilling them.

Three of Jigglypuffs moves are some of the longest lasting moves that shouldn't even last that long. Her dair but its supposed to be that way, the nair which stays out very long and can go through air dodges, and pound, the longest lasting, long range, sheild breaking, move that *****. Jigglypuff can angle the pound up or down and that makes Jigglypuff travel even further. It also it cuts sheilds in half and breaks thoughs that are less than half. Its downside is that it has a big cooldown time and can be sheild grabbed out of it.

Rollout is one of the most quickest powerful attacks that can be kill without having to fully charge it. This is one of the moves that makes games cruical for opponents who don't know how to fight a Jigglypuff (which most likely will be many since Jigglypuff is low tier). If you think you can just shield it and live your dead wrong, Jigglypuff can turn her rollout 3 and sometimes even 4 times, the result of your sheild will either be a sheild poke death or your sheild breaks and then you die from a fsmash. Trying to counter it with Ike, Marth, or Lucario's counter won't work either, rollout is fast and it just goes right by before they can hit with their counter, and by that time Jigglypuffs turned around and hit you with a rebound. If players know the match up then rollout won't be as effective because they'll know how to avoid it.

Want to know how to win a game with snake?
Camp with nades, space with f-tilt and up tilt at 90-100%

see the difference?

i think how good a character is is directly correspondent to the description of what it takes to win a game with them.

If i were to describe what it would take to win with sonic, it would be about half as long as the quote above, because sonic is better than jiggles but no where near as good as snake.

If it takes that long to explain how to win one game with the character, the character is bad. you may be good with the character, and you may win with him. but the character is still really bad

 

[Jigglymaster]

Uh no? Thats just how you play as a Snake if you don't know much about the character. You just can't win by doing that.

That wasn't a description on what Jigglypuff has to do to win. I was listing all the moves she has and different ways she can rack up damage for that final kill. You honestly think a Snake would get so far in a tournament just with those tips?

Also Jigglypuff can be just as good as I can play Jigglypuff or any of the other Jigglypuff pros. Thats what counts, so how can the character be bad if I'm playing better than the character itself? That dosn't make any sense.

 

[Zankoku]

Are you saying Snakes do way more than grenades, ftilts, and utilts?

 

[PhantomX]

Yeah, they pivot grab and jab cancel, silly.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Dont forget some mortar slides and wavebounced nades to prevent juggling. Also...down throw tech chasing.

 

[Frown]

Yeah, mortar slide... That's possibly the most useful AT in Brawl.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Yeah, mortar slide... That's possibly the most useful AT in Brawl.

Prove me wrong.

Diddy's Glide toss maybe?

 

[TP]

Yeah, mortar slide... That's possibly the most useful AT in Brawl.

Prove me wrong.

IDC got banned.

BTW, my sarcasm detector is working fine, thank you for asking.

 

[da K.I.D.]

That dosn't make any sense.

The character is bad, but you are really good at the game and minimising the characters blatent weaknesses.

Whats hard to understand


also, @ people talking about snake.
He has tons of stuff that he CAN do, but generally doesnt need anything more than f tilt, up tilt aned nades to win most matches

 

[Jigglymaster]

The character is bad, but you are really good at the game and minimising the characters blatent weaknesses.

Whats hard to understand


also, @ people talking about snake.
He has tons of stuff that he CAN do, but generally doesnt need anything more than f tilt, up tilt aned nades to win most matches

So if I can play Jigglypuff that way then essentally everyone can. Your saying that Jigglypuff can't do these things even though I can do them.

 

[Red Arremer]

No. He says that your skill can cover Jigglypuff's weaknesses well enough. That doesn't make the character that much better, though. You already have to go insanely long ways to make her decent, think of what you could do with a Top Tier character... those don't even need to go so many steps because they have less weaknesses they have to cover.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I main Diddy Kong actually and I have gotten high placings at tournies like Apex and Cot4 (25th and 17th respectivly)

Jigglypuff has been my main in the other two games and I know how to player her really well.

 

[Kewkky]

Yeah, mortar slide... That's possibly the most useful AT in Brawl.

Prove me wrong.

Glide tossing in general. There are characters whose fighting styles revolve around them, or make regular use of them. Happy?

And saying that a character can win with 3 attacks constantly being spammed means nothing. Kirby can win with bair, dthrow and fsmash, same number of attacks as snake in order to win. Does that make him equally good? Nope.

 

[Zankoku]

You placed 25th with DIDDY. Not JIGGLYPUFF. It's hardly a relevant example.