Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[Ray_Kalm]

Excuse a foreigner to not always speak 100% perfect English.

I hate when people make fun of my spelling, English is not my first language. =/

English isn't my first language either. <_<

 

[Zankoku]

anata wa Canadien desu ka?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

anata wa Canadien desu ka?

Is that Japanese for, what's your nationality?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

It's, Are you Canadian?


I thought it was Annata? I'm learning with Pimsleur so it's all audio. No readings for me but don't all "letters"have two american letters?


Actually isn't it Canadianjin?


2nd Edit: ACTUALLY that sounds wrong too. Canadajin? Cause if Americajin is American for people of America.... and....**** Japanese is hard.

 

[.Marik]

How about we just wait and see?

Clearly, most people here don't know what the **** they're talking about.

 

[Teran]

Clearly, most people here don't know what the **** they're talking about.

The Tier List is wrong.
Haven't seen it yet, but the Smash Community will let you know soon enough.

 

[UltiMario]

Captain Falcon better be at least 2nd from the bottom this time. He has a hell of a lot more potential than everyone thinks, theres no way he is the worst in the game. I find Ganondorf more appropriate for the bottom.

 

[Zankoku]

SPOILER: Captain Falcon is not second from bottom.

 

[Jim Morrison]

SPOILER: Captain Falcon is not second from bottom.

Woohoo, he went 3rd now.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

SPOILER: Captain Falcon is not second from bottom.

About time you people realized hes SSS tier.

Anymore spoilers Ankoku ?

 

[Crystanium]

From what I remember, Samus is tied with Wario, Charizard, Yoshi, as the 4th heaviest horizontally, which is even heavier than Ganon and King Dedede.

and, considering how "good" her recovery is, I wouldn't be surprised to see her survive as long as Bowser (against horizontal transaction attacks).

These are the weights of the characters you mentioned.

Bowser: 1.111
Donkey Kong: 1.091
Snake: 1.076
King Dedede: 1.071
Ganondorf: 1.056
Charizard: 1.061
Samus: 1.051
Wario: 1.045
Yoshi: 1.045

Samus is the seventh heaviest character in Brawl. She honestly should be heavier and stronger than Snake. She's wearing armor and she's technologically advanced. But, that's beside the point when it comes to the tier list. :/

 

[IxxI]

Guys. Captain Falcon should be 5 tiers above Metaknight. He has that down-taunt.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Maybe her armor is made of an incredibly light alloy?

 

[Crystanium]

Maybe her armor is made of an incredibly light alloy?

Nah. The Melee trophy, Samus Unmasked notes that Samus is burdened with heavy armor, but she moves gracefully like a butterfly. Also, in Metroid: Zero Mission, without the Hi-Jump Boots, Samus doesn't get that extra distance in jumping, but when you lose your armor, Samus jumps the same distance as if she had the Hi-Jump Boots. (I did sequence breaking. That's probably irrelevant, though.) Another note is in Metroid Prime where when you're heading to acquiring the Boost Ball, the platforms you jump on can be scanned, and it says it won't be able to hold Samus' weight.

 

[Shaya]

And actual responses come about from me jokingly state that Samus is light? You know, after Spadefox was like, you'll get no rise or run out of me, with your powers combined, I dropped bowser for samus! (horrible reference here).

Also anth0ny, I don't think you've heard of MikeHaze,
you know the guy who's consistantly beating DSF (Meta Knight and otherwise) and most often out placing Tyrant, etc etc. Two players who are considered to be two of the best Meta Knight's in the [american] nation.
Saying Marth loses to the top three... well if the tier list is going to have Wario 3rd, Falco is going to lose to the top three characters in the game as well, whilst also losing or at best being even with most of high tier (something Marth doesn't have an issue with). G&W also has no solid advantages over the top/high tiers either.

Marth is going down, but Falco and Game and Watch should also be going down with him, and in my opinion, at a steeper decent.

 

[Zankoku]

Samus' armor is ridiculously heavy. For some reason in Brawl she's also working in the gravity of the moon. Snake is just heavy because he's made of Sony.

 

[IxxI]

These are the weights of the characters you mentioned.

She honestly should be heavier and stronger than Snake. She's wearing armor and she's technologically advanced. But, that's beside the point when it comes to the tier list. :/

Snake's a fatty.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

These are the weights of the characters you mentioned.

Bowser: 1.111
Donkey Kong: 1.091
Snake: 1.076
King Dedede: 1.071
Ganondorf: 1.056
Charizard: 1.061
Samus: 1.051
Wario: 1.045
Yoshi: 1.045

Samus is the seventh heaviest character in Brawl. She honestly should be heavier and stronger than Snake. She's wearing armor and she's technologically advanced. But, that's beside the point when it comes to the tier list. :/

In that case, Ganon should be the heaviest in the game because he wears ****en steel armour, yet he's only as heavy as Captain Falcon, who wears what, leather armour? We all have our wants, we just can't get them more than half the time.

Also, I didn't say Samus was heavier than Ganondorf/King Dedede in general, just that she's heavier than both horizontally.

 

[Crystanium]

Snake is just heavy because he's made of Sony.

If he was made of X-Box, I would understand.

Anyway, last time Samus went +1 in the tier list. I wonder where she will land this time. I hope she moves up at least another point. I'm also curious on where Zero Suit Samus will land. I think she had a nice boost in the last tier list, and Pit, well, he went down. Will he go down further? Diddy Kong is a very excellent character, and I think he'll get a little boost.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

If he was made of X-Box, I would understand.

Anyway, last time Samus went +1 in the tier list. I wonder where she will land this time. I hope she moves up at least another point. I'm also curious on where Zero Suit Samus will land. I think she had a nice boost in the last tier list, and Pit, well, he went down. Will he go down further? Diddy Kong is a very excellent character, and I think he'll get a little boost.

Don't you already know how the tier list turned out to be?

 

[Morrigan]

Not every mod is a SBRoomer.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Not every mod is a SBRoomer.

Ah. Okay.

10Chars.

 

[fromundaman]

Captain Falcon better be at least 2nd from the bottom this time. He has a hell of a lot more potential than everyone thinks, theres no way he is the worst in the game. I find Ganondorf more appropriate for the bottom.

I'm not going to go into the Ganon vs CF debate, but you know, Ganon, like CF and every other underrated character, has more potential than people give them credit for. That doesn't make them better than the other characters in this game.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'm not going to go into the Ganon vs CF debate, but you know, Ganon, like CF and every other underrated character, has more potential than people give them credit for. That doesn't make them better than the other characters in this game.

So basically, Ganon, like any other characters, has potential. Doesn't change the fact that he's still absolutely last.

 

[Frown]

So basically, Ganon, like any other characters, has potential. Doesn't change the fact that he's still absolutely last.

I bet people have claimed [character] to be heavily unerrated at least 10 times.

 

[fromundaman]

So basically, Ganon, like any other characters, has potential. Doesn't change the fact that he's still absolutely last.

Pretty much. All the underrated characters have potential, but potential doesn't win matches.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Nah. The Melee trophy, Samus Unmasked notes that Samus is burdened with heavy armor, but she moves gracefully like a butterfly. Also, in Metroid: Zero Mission, without the Hi-Jump Boots, Samus doesn't get that extra distance in jumping, but when you lose your armor, Samus jumps the same distance as if she had the Hi-Jump Boots. (I did sequence breaking. That's probably irrelevant, though.) Another note is in Metroid Prime where when you're heading to acquiring the Boost Ball, the platforms you jump on can be scanned, and it says it won't be able to hold Samus' weight.

You seriously need to calm down...

 

[Super Angry Luigi]

except Luigi. I love the guy but he's not as good as people want him to be.

I agree, IMO Luigi's not even half as good as most people say he is, and I think he needs to be below Mario.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I agree, IMO Luigi's not even half as good as most people say he is, and I think he needs to be below Mario.

I don't even secondary Luigi and I know for sure he's a lot better than Mario and that he won't go below him.

1.) Ridiculous recovery difference.
2.) Combos unbelieveably better than Mario.
3.) Tornado has more priority and has more uses.
4.) Can kill slightly earlier than Mario can (Forward smash has less lag than Mario's.)

The only difference Mario may be better than Luigi in is his cape but Luigi has many more advantages. -_-...

 

[POKE40]

These are the weights of the characters you mentioned.

Bowser: 1.111
Donkey Kong: 1.091
Snake: 1.076
King Dedede: 1.071
Ganondorf: 1.056
Charizard: 1.061
Samus: 1.051
Wario: 1.045
Yoshi: 1.045

Samus is the seventh heaviest character in Brawl. She honestly should be heavier and stronger than Snake. She's wearing armor and she's technologically advanced. But, that's beside the point when it comes to the tier list. :/

wow yoshi is fat.
lol

Brawl's engine screws everyones' weight up...
When was yoshi almost as heavy as wario?

Yoshi...sure he eats a lot but Yoshi runs a lot in the wild
Wario mean while has muscles (or fat) and eats garlic and then proceeds to ride on his motorcycle

Well..... SIX days until it's here folks!
I'm waiting to see MK on the top again

 

[fromundaman]

I don't even secondary Luigi and I know for sure he's a lot better than Mario and that he won't go below him.

1.) Ridiculous recovery difference.
2.) Combos unbelieveably better than Mario.
3.) Tornado has more priority and has more uses.
4.) Can kill slightly earlier than Mario can (Forward smash has less lag than Mario's.)

The only difference Mario may be better than Luigi in is his cape but Luigi has many more advantages. -_-...

Mhmmm... I won't say Mario is better than Luigi (even though I second him and do personally think so), but your post is incredibly wrong.

1) That may be true, but, from my experience, Mario survives longer than Luigi unless he's sent at almost a pure horizontal angle due to how much DI he has. A Mario generally shouldn't be dying before 140%, and mine usually lasts till about 190-200% if I play carefully, and I'm not even that good... That being said, he's easier to gimp than Luigi by far.

2)False. Much falsehood there. They both combo about as well, and honestly, I'd give Mario a very, VERY slight advantage, since his Dair can combo into stuff (and shieldpoke), including Fsmash.

3)More priority and uses than what? That's kind of vague... Do you mean than FLUDD? FLUDD isn't meant to have priority, and it has some incredible uses, even if they are much more situational than the tornado.

4) Truth, but Mario is able to Gimp better as well, and as such can kill much, MUCH earlier. However, for reliable kill moves, you're right, though his Usmash and Dsmash can also kill, and Fsmash isn't that slow, hasmuch more range, has drawback, and can be stutterstepped to outrange Marth's Fsmash. That being said, SJP can kill ridiculously early as well, and Luigi can combo into it, so I'd say they're pretty close on KOs. Luigi might still have a slight advantage there.

The cape is but one difference. They are completely different characters. That's like saying Fox and Falco are the same characters. Please get your facts right before posting such arrogant posts.

 

[B!squick]

Brawl's engine screws everyones' weight up...

At least one exception though. Can you guess who? :D *musical note* It's a mystery. *musical note*

 

[smashkng]

Luigi is very different to Mario. Luigi is a quite powerful character with extremely fast start-up attacks but poor mobility and range.

Mario has better mobility than Luigi but it's still only decent. He's weaker but also has slightly better range . He has a good spike and FLUDD and Cape can also gimp. What is not balanced is his poor recovery. That's the misstake of Sakurai, Mario should not have any disadvantage

 

[hippiedude92]

Stop with Mario v Luigi debates. They are both complete different chars.

I don't even secondary Luigi and I know for sure he's a lot better than Mario and that he won't go below him.

1.) Ridiculous recovery difference.
2.) Combos unbelieveably better than Mario.
3.) Tornado has more priority and has more uses.
4.) Can kill slightly earlier than Mario can (Forward smash has less lag than Mario's.)

The only difference Mario may be better than Luigi in is his cape but Luigi has many more advantages. -_-...

1. Luigi gets gimped alot easier than Mario does. The only difference with Marios and Luigi's recovery is distance wise and ledgeguard wise

2. Get your facts straight. They both combo equally in a whole different way. Mario can go farther horinzontally and Luigi can do better vertically

3. It clanks with many ground moves but still has ending lag, but otherwise agreed.

4. Luigi has more kill options. But has slightly harder finding the ko. Otherwise agreed.

Mhmmm... I won't say Mario is better than Luigi (even though I second him and do personally think so), but your post is incredibly wrong.

1) That may be true, but, from my experience, Mario survives longer than Luigi unless he's sent at almost a pure horizontal angle due to how much DI he has. A Mario generally shouldn't be dying before 140%, and mine usually lasts till about 190-200% if I play carefully, and I'm not even that good... That being said, he's easier to gimp than Luigi by far.

2)False. Much falsehood there. They both combo about as well, and honestly, I'd give Mario a very, VERY slight advantage, since his Dair can combo into stuff (and shieldpoke), including Fsmash.

3)More priority and uses than what? That's kind of vague... Do you mean than FLUDD? FLUDD isn't meant to have priority, and it has some incredible uses, even if they are much more situational than the tornado.

4) Truth, but Mario is able to Gimp better as well, and as such can kill much, MUCH earlier. However, for reliable kill moves, you're right, though his Usmash and Dsmash can also kill, and Fsmash isn't that slow, hasmuch more range, has drawback, and can be stutterstepped to outrange Marth's Fsmash. That being said, SJP can kill ridiculously early as well, and Luigi can combo into it, so I'd say they're pretty close on KOs. Luigi might still have a slight advantage there.

The cape is but one difference. They are completely different characters. That's like saying Fox and Falco are the same characters. Please get your facts right before posting such arrogant posts.

1. Luigi lives longer fyi. I don't remember if Mario's heavier than Luigi, but i'm sure he isn't since Luigi is a midweight floaty. But you can flame me/correct me on this if your man enough. Luigi has better momentum cancel techs anyways. He generally lives around 160%~ with good di / MC

2. Luigi has more shield poke moves than Mario. Or at least better and " safer " ones. Dair / Nair / upair are very safe for luigi. and pretty much shield pokes and works in conjunction with his other moves

3. FLudd makes Mario's meta-game so different seriously lol. Fludd wrecks Ness to 99:1 lmao.

4. When it comes to ko-ing it highly differs who they're up against. I honestly don't know if this debate is Mario v luigi, or is it whose the better char against the cast. If it's the first choice, then luigi all the way for kos. If its the second, it depends. People like Snake/Diddy/wario is cakewalk for Luigi. Also Mario can gimp around 3/4's of the cast or so. Luigi can gimp too, but just slightly difference. But im lazy to go deep in it seeing as how most people don't know anything about luigi and mario. oh and fyi, Mario's fsmash can kill around 90%s and safe too lol

Most people are just ****ing stupid here. They love to compare luigi and mario. It's ****ing hilarious. Keep it coming ****ing *******s. ******* don't know **** here.

Luigi is very different to Mario. Luigi is a quite powerful character with extremely fast start-up attacks but poor mobility and range.

Mario has better mobility than Luigi but it's still only decent. He's weaker but also has slightly better range . He has a good spike and FLUDD and Cape can also gimp. What is not balanced is his poor recovery. That's the misstake of Sakurai, Mario should not have any disadvantage

Um, Mario has short range too LMFAO! But his cape/Fludd/Fsmash generally make the bigger difference in range. You must be poorpissed as ****. Mario's recovery is just about medicore. The only problem with his recovery is distance wise, not ledgeguard wise. As long he doesn't get sent to offstage angle, and has 2nd jump, and has his fireballs/cape/fludd/aerials ready, he'll recover in no time

 

[Red Arremer]

Luigi is only slightly lighter than Mario.

 

[Anth0ny]

Also anth0ny, I don't think you've heard of MikeHaze,
you know the guy who's consistantly beating DSF (Meta Knight and otherwise) and most often out placing Tyrant, etc etc. Two players who are considered to be two of the best Meta Knight's in the [american] nation.
Saying Marth loses to the top three... well if the tier list is going to have Wario 3rd, Falco is going to lose to the top three characters in the game as well, whilst also losing or at best being even with most of high tier (something Marth doesn't have an issue with). G&W also has no solid advantages over the top/high tiers either.

Marth is going down, but Falco and Game and Watch should also be going down with him, and in my opinion, at a steeper decent.

I honestly don't know crap about WC Brawl lol. I know who Mike Haze is, but I didn't know that he was beating DSF and Tyrant. So his Marth is much better than I thought I guess

Also, Marth doesn't just lose to the top 3 characters in the game. He gets ***** by them. From what I've gathered (and experienced with my time using Marth as a main/secondary), Marth loses to MK, Snake and DDD 65-35. I'd probably push those to 70-30 tbh. He really has nothing on those three, and considering Snake is probably going to be at the same tier as MK, and DDD may be going up to third...it's only making things worse for Marth.

Falco has a 60-40 vs MK, 55-45 against Snake, and an I don't know what vs. Wario. He is DDD's worst matchup. Pretty different from Marth if you ask me.

Game and Watch has a closer matchup against MK than Marth. I'm pretty sure that it's closer vs. DDD as well. Snake...probably not

All in all, I think Game and Watch should be higher than Falco and Marth, but not by much.

 

[Hence]

-1 / -2 Places for Zero Suit Samus, I'm afraid.

 

[fromundaman]

Hippie... wtf?

Your title says to stop the debates, but instead you enflame them, encourage them, and seek them where they weren't intended.
I respect you as aplayer, but this is kind of ********... That being said, I guess I'm going to needto clarify:

1) I'll take your word for it. I don't play Luigi, but I've not seen any outlive my Mario, so meh.
2) That's nice... but this wasn't a discussion on shieldpoking moves. I just offhand mentioned that Mario's Dair shieldpoked while saying they essentially have similarly good comboing skills.
3) Agreed.
4) I was essentially saying they can't be compared too well, because, although you're right, Luigi generally KOs easier than Mario, Mario also has good KO moves, but due to his amazing gimping skills, doesn't have to rely on them as much.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I honestly don't know crap about WC Brawl lol. I know who Mike Haze is, but I didn't know that he was beating DSF and Tyrant. So his Marth is much better than I thought I guess

Also, Marth doesn't just lose to the top 3 characters in the game. He gets ***** by them. From what I've gathered (and experienced with my time using Marth as a main/secondary), Marth loses to MK, Snake and DDD 65-35. I'd probably push those to 70-30 tbh. He really has nothing on those three, and considering Snake is probably going to be at the same tier as MK, and DDD may be going up to third...it's only making things worse for Marth.

Falco has a 60-40 vs MK, 55-45 against Snake, and an I don't know what vs. Wario. He is DDD's worst matchup. Pretty different from Marth if you ask me.

Game and Watch has a closer matchup against MK than Marth. I'm pretty sure that it's closer vs. DDD as well. Snake...probably not

All in all, I think Game and Watch should be higher than Falco and Marth, but not by much.

Don't spout false info about Marth's match-ups k thnx.

MK ***** him at 30/70 or 35/65 at best and the others are 40/60 at worst.

Not saying Marth matters in the metagame just want you to get ur facts straight.

 

[hippiedude92]

Hippie... wtf?

Your title says to stop the debates, but instead you enflame them, encourage them, and seek them where they weren't intended.
I respect you as aplayer, but this is kind of ********... That being said, I guess I'm going to needto clarify:

1) I'll take your word for it. I don't play Luigi, but I've not seen any outlive my Mario, so meh.
2) That's nice... but this wasn't a discussion on shieldpoking moves. I just offhand mentioned that Mario's Dair shieldpoked while saying they essentially have similarly good comboing skills.
3) Agreed.
4) I was essentially saying they can't be compared too well, because, although you're right, Luigi generally KOs easier than Mario, Mario also has good KO moves, but due to his amazing gimping skills, doesn't have to rely on them as much.

Lol sorry mangz. Ever since brawl came out, the beginning of the meta-game, Mario and Luigi boards clashed with whose better and what not. We had endless debates and flame wars so I guess I still have it in me. I just get so tired of seeing wrong info being thrown out when people just know the surface of a character. But hence we'll fix those mistakes I guess lol. But yeah sorry, it's just a Mario/Luigi main character thing. Ask any early meta-game mainer and they would understand too >_>

4) lol, to be honest I always take it either people are comparing them or doing the actual matchup Mario vs Luigi so I tend to misunderstood it and such.

2) Lol, I only read for shield pokeing part in the ( ) for some reason idk why so i took it as if it was shield pokes xD! but anyways just still want to throw it out that Luigi's aerials Dair, Nair, upair shield poke (or stab idk what's the difference tho). And Mario's Dair, and I think Upair? nair shield poke. Just throwin it out there.